Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part V

[KingsFan7824]

It's funny how those few years post-Voynov they were so desperate for that RHD, now they need that Top 4 LHD because they've done a pretty good job of finding and developing right shots (specifically Roy & Walker).

Had the team not quit in Sept 2018, maybe they'd still have Muzzin and Martinez, along with Doughty, and Roy, and Walker, and you could start forming a defense to some degree. Muzzin/Doughty, Martinez/Roy, Forbort/Walker. Not terrible. Not 2014, but not terrible.

Thus, they've had to waste the time of Kopitar and Doughty. On purpose. Not just years like 14-15 and 16-17 where things didn't go well. Rather a deliberate process of change. Which is a shame, because Kopitar and Doughty should be on more competitive teams at this point of their careers. It's like the 19/20 year old still in highschool, or the 50 year old in the club. It's just, what? Why? However, you don't see a team quit in training camp like they did all that often. It was impressive.

 

[KingsFan7824]

3rd worst team in the league since 2/26, which was the high point of the season. They were 4th in the West after 2/24.

Lizotte, Anderson, Strand, and Wolanin are the only + players.

Athanasiou has 5g/11pts at ES, while Kopitar has 3g/11pts. Iafallo has 6g/10pts in one fewer game than both. Brown has 1g/5pts. Luff has as many ES goals as Brown, in 16 fewer games. Brown and Carter are top 2 in shots.

 

[Mats26]

The issue I see is that no forward or D prospect is proving they are “star” level.

Roy and Walker are surprises, we all heard the hype of Mikey Anderson but these are NOT star players.

At forward, no young player has proved to be elite. Vilardi has tanked, JAD has played well but he’s a 2nd or 3rd liner.

Bottom line besides 26 year Cal Peterson proving he is a number one goalie no other young player has stepped forward and dominated.

This is the reason why AA and Iafallo are being re signed. Because the other young forwards are inconsistent, unproven or haven’t stepped up.

I have a feeling this team is going to pay dearly for passing up on both Stutzle AND Zegras. We need elite forwards that can drive play and make other players around them better. QB can develop and replace Kopi, but that's like exchanging 4 quarters for a dollar. We need a different type of player, a dynamic player that can push the play and be a threat offensively every shift. I am really hoping 1 or 2 prospects develop into that type of player but we haven't even developed a top 6 forward in ages.. Toffloli?

 

[LAKings88]

I have a feeling this team is going to pay dearly for passing up on both Stutzle AND Zegras. We need elite forwards that can drive play and make other players around them better. QB can develop and replace Kopi, but that's like exchanging 4 quarters for a dollar. We need a different type of player, a dynamic player that can push the play and be a threat offensively every shift. I am really hoping 1 or 2 prospects develop into that type of player but we haven't even developed a top 6 forward in ages.. Toffloli?

Lot of teams missed the boat on Zegras.

I have hope in Byfield still. I like Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, and Thomas. Sucks that Madden got hurt so bad. Patience still required.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Lot of teams missed the boat on Zegras.

I have hope in Byfield still. I like Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, and Thomas. Sucks that Madden got hurt so bad. Patience still required.

I think teams questioned his flashy style transitioning to the NHL. He could be Pat Kaneish, Mike Ribiero, or Robbie Schremp.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I have a feeling this team is going to pay dearly for passing up on both Stutzle AND Zegras. We need elite forwards that can drive play and make other players around them better. QB can develop and replace Kopi, but that's like exchanging 4 quarters for a dollar. We need a different type of player, a dynamic player that can push the play and be a threat offensively every shift. I am really hoping 1 or 2 prospects develop into that type of player but we haven't even developed a top 6 forward in ages.. Toffloli?

Say it's 2006. I tell you the Kings will have 3 consecutive top 5 picks, completely miss on one, to the point where they lose him on waivers for nothing, trade another one, along with an additional solid young forward, and two more 1st rd picks, before ever getting out of the 1st rd of the playoffs, and how do you think that rebuild would've been going?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Say it's 2006. I tell you the Kings will have 3 consecutive top 5 picks, completely miss on one, to the point where they lose him on waivers for nothing, trade another one, along with an additional solid young forward, and two more 1st rd picks, before ever getting out of the 1st rd of the playoffs, and how do you think that rebuild would've been going?

This is how you knew it was going right. The proof was on the ice.

2005/06 89 pts (ex player GM gets fired)
2006/07 68 pts (experienced sports executive hired as GM, cleans house)
2007/08 71 pts
2008/09 79 pts
2009/10 101 pts (playoffs, lose in round 1)

 

[SFKingshomer]

This is how you knew it was going right. The proof was on the ice.

2005/06 89 pts (ex player GM gets fired)
2006/07 68 pts (experienced sports executive hired as GM, cleans house)
2007/08 71 pts
2008/09 79 pts
2009/10 101 pts (playoffs, lose in round 1)

It took some development years and 3 HOF players drafted by the previous GM as well as 4 key trades and a captain playing out of his mind. Sutter was a huge reason and credit to Terry Murray for teaching this team how to play a complete game. Add in some top notch character guys like Mitchell, Regehr, Scuderi, Greene, Stoll. This team as constructed is at least 3-5 years away from doing damage and that's if Doughty is still good and the key prospects hit their potential.

 

[DoktorJeep]

It took some development years and 3 HOF players drafted by the previous GM as well as 4 key trades and a captain playing out of his mind. Sutter was a huge reason and credit to Terry Murray for teaching this team how to play a complete game. Add in some top notch character guys like Mitchell, Regehr, Scuderi, Greene, Stoll. This team as constructed is at least 3-5 years away from doing damage and that's if Doughty is still good and the key prospects hit their potential.

If Dave Taylor wasn’t fired, do we have three HOF players?

 

[KingsFan7824]

This is how you knew it was going right. The proof was on the ice.

2005/06 89 pts (ex player GM gets fired)
2006/07 68 pts (experienced sports executive hired as GM, cleans house)
2007/08 71 pts
2008/09 79 pts
2009/10 101 pts (playoffs, lose in round 1)

Still a chance for incremental pt improvement over the last 3 years.

If you don't, or can't, realize that the two efforts have different contexts to them, then I don't know what to say.

Again, completely missing on a 4th overall pick would not have been seen as ok. And it wasn't, and we were still bemoaning the loss of Moulson(again for nothing) of all people before the 2012 playoffs.

 

[tomd]

3rd worst team in the league since 2/26, which was the high point of the season. They were 4th in the West after 2/24.

Lizotte, Anderson, Strand, and Wolanin are the only + players.

Athanasiou has 5g/11pts at ES, while Kopitar has 3g/11pts. Iafallo has 6g/10pts in one fewer game than both. Brown has 1g/5pts. Luff has as many ES goals as Brown, in 16 fewer games. Brown and Carter are top 2 in shots.

You post these "updates" fairly often...especially when things are going badly. What point are you trying to make by doing so? If I did it I would be accused of trolling. You almost seem gleeful...as if you are saying "look how bad the team is...but the good news is that the rebuild is nowhere near done and draft day is one day closer!! The lottery is ours!".

 

[DoktorJeep]

Still a chance for incremental pt improvement over the last 3 years.

If you don't, or can't, realize that the two efforts have different contexts to them, then I don't know what to say.

Again, completely missing on a 4th overall pick would not have been seen as ok. And it wasn't, and we were still bemoaning the loss of Moulson(again for nothing) of all people before the 2012 playoffs.

Context = excuses if applied to every situation. Context is important to analyze exceptional situations, not common. Applying context to something you are personally attached to over and over again is a hallmark of bias.

 

[KingsFan7824]

You post these "updates" fairly often...especially when things are going badly. What point are you trying to make by doing so? If I did it I would be accused of trolling. You almost seem gleeful...as if you are saying "look how bad the team is...but the good news is that the rebuild is nowhere near done and draft day is one day closer!! The lottery is ours!".

Not gleefully by any means. More just to chuckle at the bad numbers. I don't know why you think I want them to suck. Once the roster quit in Sept 2018, on the heels of the 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18 seasons, I had no problem with them getting rid of guys. That does not mean I want an endless rebuild, or that it's in any way enjoyable trying to give a damn about the last few hundred completely meaningless games they've played in recent years.

I'm simply not in a position to improve the team, so I have to wait and see what happens.

Context = excuses if applied to every situation. Context is important to analyze exceptional situations, not common. Applying context to something you are personally attached to over and over again is a hallmark of bias.

What are you talking about? Are you saying there's no difference worth thinking about between the history and roster construction of the Kings in 2005/2006/2007, and 2017/2018/2019 or so?

Are you a I have a hammer, so everything must be a nail kind of person?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Not gleefully by any means. More just to chuckle at the bad numbers. I don't know why you think I want them to suck. Once the roster quit in Sept 2018, on the heels of the 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18 seasons, I had no problem with them getting rid of guys. That does not mean I want an endless rebuild, or that it's in any way enjoyable trying to give a damn about the last few hundred completely meaningless games they've played in recent years.

I'm simply not in a position to improve the team, so I have to wait and see what happens.



What are you talking about? Are you saying there's no difference worth thinking about between the history and roster construction of the Kings in 2005/2006/2007, and 2017/2018/2019 or so?

Are you a I have a hammer, so everything must be a nail kind of person?

Comparing to the previous decade now is just as useless as it would have been back then if we were pointing to 95/96/97. Trying to draw parallels is just indulgent in my view.

 

[DrHansReinhardt]

Not gleefully by any means. More just to chuckle at the bad numbers. I don't know why you think I want them to suck. Once the roster quit in Sept 2018, on the heels of the 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18 seasons, I had no problem with them getting rid of guys. That does not mean I want an endless rebuild, or that it's in any way enjoyable trying to give a damn about the last few hundred completely meaningless games they've played in recent years.

I'm simply not in a position to improve the team, so I have to wait and see what happens.



What are you talking about? Are you saying there's no difference worth thinking about between the history and roster construction of the Kings in 2005/2006/2007, and 2017/2018/2019 or so?

Are you a I have a hammer, so everything must be a nail kind of person?

lol

 

[KingsFan7824]

Comparing to the previous decade now is just as useless as it would have been back then if we were pointing to 95/96/97. Trying to draw parallels is just indulgent in my view.

How is it useless? Why do your knees hurt when you're 43? They didn't when you were 14. What difference does it make that you've had a few more decades worth of wear and tear on your body. That's just an excuse.

You're right. A 19 year old Kopitar on an ELC, and a 30 year old Kopitar on a $10m contract, no difference. It's all the same. Getting the job with a young Kopitar already in the organization, and getting the job with no prospect in the organization anywhere close to a 2006 Kopitar, no difference. It's all the same.

Neither of those situations are exceptional. They have a lot in common. Kopitar has the same name in 2006 and in 2017, and that's all you need to know. Plus he's still left handed, and has #11 on his back. Everything is the same. The passage of time means nothing. Accomplishments mean nothing.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

Any news on Bjornfot?

seems like even the actual injury he has hasn’t been announced. Not to mention a timetable for his return

 

[Lt Dan]

Any news on Bjornfot?

seems like even the actual injury he has hasn’t been announced. Not to mention a timetable for his return

Concussions be that way

 

[BigKing]

This is how you knew it was going right. The proof was on the ice.

2005/06 89 pts (ex player GM gets fired)
2006/07 68 pts (experienced sports executive hired as GM, cleans house)
2007/08 71 pts
2008/09 79 pts
2009/10 101 pts (playoffs, lose in round 1)

20017/18 98 pts (ex player gets hired as GM)
2018/19 71 points (lowest total since the DL bottom out except they were supposed to be good. start of official rebuild but Blake already has two full drafts under his belt)
2019/20 64 points (70 games but took a 7 game win streak to put themselves in a position to have more points than year prior. no guarantees but probably do it. this is the 2007/08 season)
2020/21 .452% point % (2008/09 team had a .482%. this year's team was pacing nicely with that but has fallen off)

The thing with DL is that he signed Handzus before that bottom out season in '08. Then he moved one of our darling prospects for Williams during that 08-09 season. The Kings still finished bad enough to draft Schenn at 5thOA at that point which is something that is in the Kings sights for this year. DL makes the Smyth trade going in to 2009/10, Williams is good before getting hurt and Doughty just goes to another level. Simmonds proves to be awesome as well.

The rebuilds are obviously different as DL had to add vets to the young guys he inherited but his young guys also played key roles on that team (Doughty/Simmonds/Johnson) along with the two guys he got that were in the age range that Blake has none except for Iafallo..maybe Roy at 26 I guess (Stoll/Greene). Blake already has the vets in Kopitar and Doughty but the majority of his young guys aren't doing anything as impactful as DLs. Doughty is a huge outlier but Simmonds doing 40 points and 116 PIMs at 21 in his second full season is impressive. Hell, playing all 82 games in his D +2 at nearly 14 minutes night is awesome.

Blake needs one of his young guys to be a difference maker. The Vilardi thing is rough because that's his first draft choice and we all know they didn't expect him to look like this. I'm not ignoring the solid contributions from Anderson, JAD and the poise of Bjornfot but the big time stud has not arrived. I expect Byfield in the NHL next year but his play in the AHL doesn't look like it will equate to a Kopitar-like rookie year.

Even if they don't make the playoffs next season, Blake has to add a player or two this off-season that is not a placeholder. The Handzus and Scuderi signings were panned as too much/too long/wrong time but were actually awesome in the end. Some of these prospects might flash in camp and win a spot...not like the Kings are full of studs right now. I fully believe that they expected to make the playoffs by next season but I'm not so sure now since that belief was most likely predicated on the belief that Vilardi and Turcotte would be solid contributors. That faith has probably waned a bit but I still expect Blake to add real players this off-season under the premise that his timeline had real playoff expectations by Year 4 of the rebuild.

 

[Herby]

Trade our first rounder plus to move up to top 3 to draft Luke Hughes. Sign Landeskog...

Landeskog-Kopitar-Brown
Iafallo-Byfield-Vilardi
Kempe-AndersonDolan-Athanasiou
Lemieux-Moore-Grundstrom
Wagner/Lizotte
(Andersson/Turcotte/Kaliyev callups)

Hughes-Doughty
Anderson-Roy
Bjornfot-Walker
Clague or Strand as extra

You want Luke Hughes to jump directly from the USHL to the NHL? The kid is still 17 years old and won't be turning 18 until about the time the Kings start camp next season.

 

[BigKing]

Can Faber even come to camp if he is for sure staying in the NCAA next year? I'm not saying he is ready or should leave college but his profile is that of one of these guys that you weren't expecting much from anytime soon but blew through expectations in his D + 1 to the point where it makes you wonder if he could be a guy that shows up to camp and just takes a spot. He isn't small and his height/weight might be from the time of the draft.

This is the kind of unexpected jackpot guy that Blake needs.

@Herby...I'm not trying to ignite a debate on the pros and cons of staying in school for one's D+2 season. It's more that this board annually says they expect so-and-so to make the team out-of-camp in their D+2 year even if the D+1 year wasn't extraordinary. This is actually a kid who seemed to win a larger-than-expected role at both Minnesota and at the WJC as an August birthday with that larger-than-expected role pretty much being a guy on the top pairing.

 

[Reclamation Project]

 

[Lt Dan]

Can Faber even come to camp if he is for sure staying in the NCAA next year? I'm not saying he is ready or should leave college but his profile is that of one of these guys that you weren't expecting much from anytime soon but blew through expectations in his D + 1 to the point where it makes you wonder if he could be a guy that shows up to camp and just takes a spot. He isn't small and his height/weight might be from the time of the draft.
.

I am far from being a CBA expert, but if IIRC they are allowed to attend a "development camp" but they aren't allowed to attempt a proper training camp and still keep their NCAA eligibility

 

[Mats26]

Lot of teams missed the boat on Zegras.

I have hope in Byfield still. I like Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, and Thomas. Sucks that Madden got hurt so bad. Patience still required.

Habs had Zegras 3rd on their list. At pick 5 there would of been alot of teams looking at a different prospect. Detroit went off the board with Seider at 6 for example. Sometimes in a draft you need to take a swing for that dynamic talent. I just feel they are going with the safe picks all the time.

As a result we are so vanilla. We are starving for dynamic players and we keep drafting boring 200ft players. We have a plentora of those types already in JAD, Moore, Iafallo, Kopitar etc.. What we needed was talent to add to these types of players.

I hope our prospects turn out but I would like another swing at a high risk, high reward player like Kaliyev this draft.

 

[Stimpythecat]

For the moment, I am saying no on Eichel due to that herniated disc in his neck. I want to see how he recovers and that means seeing him in games in the 2021-2022 season.

If he's offered at a serious discount, that's a different story.