Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Piston]

A slow erosion of the roster. They barely got out of the 2014 playoffs with the Cup. As thrilling a run as that was.

They peaked in 2012. In 2013, Carter, Richards, Voynov, and Quick got them through 2 rounds.

They should've lost any number of times in 2014. Had that happened, Richards is gone with a buyout, Greene isn't back, Gaborik isn't back. Voynov probably still does what he does, but who knows where Kopitar and Doughty are today without that second Cup.

The fool's gold of that 2014 run is the problem. That really cemented the just get in mentality. Something the Kings have paid for ever since.

The banner hanging in the rafters does not have an asterisk on it to denote how they won the Cup. The fact is they did win it and were the best team in the NHL beating the team that won the Cup the year previous and the year following. Sorry, it was not 'Fool's Gold' but a Championship that can never be taken away no matter what happened subsequently.

 

[bland]

Which is why I believed DL was a terrible GM who made one very lucky trade in Carter. There’s a reason he’s never been hired since then. Blake is just a terrible GM period.

Good lord, this is the single dumbest post I have ever read, which is quite the feat considering the rest of your work in this thread.

 

[Fat Elvis]

Left field idea.

I think LA will go after Byram from Col. LA will have to take Erik Johnson in order for that transaction to happen. The Aves will be looking for a young C in return.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

2014 was real gold, not fools gold. Suggesting any team is better off not winning a championship, which I sincerely hope you didn't mean, is well, any number of offensive adjectives.

The problem was and still is that the core simply required real leadership to thrive. None of Kopitar, Brown or Doughty are players who inspire overachievement or a committed team environment. Not bad guys just not the right guys to hold each other and their teammates accountable. The C's and A's decorating their sweaters were meant to inspire them to higher levels they couldn't reach without someone else actually carrying that load.

Its been a soft, thin team for years. The price of the Cups isn't the problem, it was the cost of chasing them in 15 and 16 when they were unwinnable that sabotaged the organization.

Every time @KingsFan7824 writes that, he's being semi-facetious/tongue-in-cheek in response to some of the logic used to explain 13, 15, 16.

In other words, the 'dumbest' thing for the roster in 15-16-17 etc was winning in 14. Winning masked the 'problems' which were mostly the same in 14 as they were in 13-17 (arguably 18). We should have started breaking it all down after 2013, in other words, going by what people had been saying around here since.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Which is why I believed DL was a terrible GM who made one very lucky trade in Carter. There’s a reason he’s never been hired since then. Blake is just a terrible GM period.

Hot take and I disagree. The biggest and best acquisition was the hiring of Sutter.

 

[BigKing]

The Kings haven't made the playoffs in what will be 3 seasons this year. Following your timeline of Doughty being the only vet left, there is no way in hell that Blake is going to come out and say that the Kings won't even be contending for the playoffs for another 4 seasons. 7 straight years of missing the playoffs and not even being close would be unacceptable and Blake/Luc would have been let go long before that timeline finished. As horrible as the Kings have been as a franchise historically, they have never missed the playoffs in 7 straight seasons.

But they did miss for six straight years and seven calendar years when including the lockout. The issue there, however, is that they didn't rebuild but tried to band-aid things once the LAPD line fizzled out due to injuries. It wound up being three seasons of black-hole trying to make it and then three seasons of DL rebuild. Would have most likely been four seasons of black-hole trying and the probable ruination of Dustin Brown's career if the lockout didn't happen.

When counting the 2015 season, this is the seventh season since then. Hasn't been a total air ball on making the playoffs but it really feels like it. The entertainment level of the on-ice product has been horrific for most of this period with the last three seasons setting a standard for boredom: at least the mid-90's teams hit and there were fights. We're almost ten years removed from the first Cup and we are *basically* the 2003 through 2009 Kings the last seven seasons. Hell, many will say the 90's after the SCF run was the worst stretch in Kings history. The seven seasons from 1994 -2000 featured the same two playoff appearances that this 2015 - 2021 stretch has seen except the latter at least won one playoff game v. the former that got swept every time. Shit has been real dark for awhile now. At least you got Laperriere on the forecheck and Blake/Norstrom hipchecks back then v. the creampuff shit we've had to endure for years now.

So with that said, I do think Blake is expecting to legit be in the playoff mix next season and he is going to try to add to the team in the off-season to do so. Blake is player-friendly and wants to have this team be competitive for Kopitar and Doughty while they are still here. Arguments can be made that this is a bad idea but, to me, that fits Blake's style. The hope is that he doesn't force it this off-season and chase a bad deal just for the sake of it.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Looking at cap strapped teams, one team that springs to mind who could make a move is Vancouver. It might not be until next season that they make some drastic changes, but someone like Brock Boeser would be a great fit.

Then there are UFA options like Zach Hyman, Tomas Tatar, Joel Armia who would all upgrade the top six.

Or just offer sheet Svechnikov.

JT Miller seems like someone they should move to afford Boeser. They have a lot of money coming off the books though.

 

[Mattias]

Which is why I believed DL was a terrible GM who made one very lucky trade in Carter. There’s a reason he’s never been hired since then. Blake is just a terrible GM period.

He got ‘lucky’ with Gaborik as well.

Dean inherited a strong core. Kopitar, Brown, Quick. Built up draft capital and maximized prospects.

Then made moves to acquire proper players in trades. Got Stoll/Green. Williams. Signed Mitchell.

Realized the roster was ready to spend prospects for established talent. Richards.

Voynov made Johnson expendable. On came Carter.

Dean to me looked like someone addicted to gambling. At trade deadline, Gaborik looked to have worked out to a shockingly good level.

Then came Sekera. Big loss.
On came Lucic. Big loss.

Gambled on new contracts. Gaborik was awful. Brown and Quick got hefty paydays.

Gambled Richards would be better. Big loss.

Didn’t try to recover assets when Williams and Stoll were in the last year.

Sutter lost the room. Dean didn’t fire.

Dean ran out of chips. Then he was out of a job.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Which is why I believed DL was a terrible GM who made one very lucky trade in Carter. There’s a reason he’s never been hired since then. Blake is just a terrible GM period.

Trading for Gaborik put them over the top in 2014.

 

[HookKing]

He got ‘lucky’ with Gaborik as well.

Dean inherited a strong core. Kopitar, Brown, Quick. Built up draft capital and maximized prospects.

Then made moves to acquire proper players in trades. Got Stoll/Green. Williams. Signed Mitchell.

Realized the roster was ready to spend prospects for established talent. Richards.

Voynov made Johnson expendable. On came Carter.

Dean to me looked like someone addicted to gambling. At trade deadline, Gaborik looked to have worked out to a shockingly good level.

Then came Sekera. Big loss.
On came Lucic. Big loss.


Gambled on new contracts. Gaborik was awful. Brown and Quick got hefty paydays.

Gambled Richards would be better. Big loss.

Didn’t try to recover assets when Williams and Stoll were in the last year.

Sutter lost the room. Dean didn’t fire.

Dean ran out of chips. Then he was out of a job.

You're exactly right. He essentially outdid any riverboat gambler. And it worked like a charm -- until it didn't. The dirty little secret here is to win a cup(s) in the cap era you need to get lucky and he had luck in droves. Williams (China doll), Mitchell (concussion issues)... and of course the crown jewel -- Johnson for Carter was like swapping kryptonite for gold.

 

[tomd]

Good lord, this is the single dumbest post I have ever read, which is quite the feat considering the rest of your work in this thread.

No need to insult me...keep it civil. I know we won't agree on much because you are in the 7 year rebuild camp and I am not but we can argue our points without insults.

I could give you a pretty good explanation for my reasoning on DL but that is not constructive to the current conversation so I'll let it go. History is what history is and DL got two Cups. I recognize that.

Regarding Blake...I go back to what the expectations were at the beginning of this rebuild. He told (as far as I know) the STH that the Kings would be poised to return to the playoffs in 2022. That would have been AEG's expectations as well. Unless he makes significant moves this summer the playoffs are a fantasy and Blake is on the hot seat. You'll notice that most GM's who start a rebuild (willingly or unwillingly) are not around to finish it. That's because it's easy to destroy a franchise but much tougher to build it back up...even with lots of draft choices. Most GM's aren't talented enough to do the tear down and the build back up. Blake for sure has given no sign that he has any talent to sign key free agents or make team improving trades. If you don't see that then we are truly at loggerheads on this discussion.

Again, I'll be very interested to see what he says to the STH this summer. If the rebuild is extended for another couple of years then he owes the fans an explanation. And at the same time he owes Doughty and Kopitar an explanation and a way out as well. And once the rebuild is extended and Doughty / Kopitar are gone then you are looking at a real Detroit/Ottawa/Buffalo/NJ situation. A 7 year rebuild if not longer and a new GM to fix what Blake started.

 

[King'sPawn]

I wish I could unread some recent posts. Holy crap.

 

[AlphaBravo]

No need to insult me...keep it civil. I know we won't agree on much because you are in the 7 year rebuild camp and I am not but we can argue our points without insults.

I could give you a pretty good explanation for my reasoning on DL but that is not constructive to the current conversation so I'll let it go. History is what history is and DL got two Cups. I recognize that.

Regarding Blake...I go back to what the expectations were at the beginning of this rebuild. He told (as far as I know) the STH that the Kings would be poised to return to the playoffs in 2022. That would have been AEG's expectations as well. Unless he makes significant moves this summer the playoffs are a fantasy and Blake is on the hot seat. You'll notice that most GM's who start a rebuild (willingly or unwillingly) are not around to finish it. That's because it's easy to destroy a franchise but much tougher to build it back up...even with lots of draft choices. Most GM's aren't talented enough to do the tear down and the build back up. Blake for sure has given no sign that he has any talent to sign key free agents or make team improving trades. If you don't see that then we are truly at loggerheads on this discussion.

Again, I'll be very interested to see what he says to the STH this summer. If the rebuild is extended for another couple of years then he owes the fans an explanation. And at the same time he owes Doughty and Kopitar an explanation and a way out as well. And once the rebuild is extended and Doughty / Kopitar are gone then you are looking at a real Detroit/Ottawa/Buffalo/NJ situation. A 7 year rebuild if not longer and a new GM to fix what Blake started.

Good points. Also, there is no way to ensure that a rebuild works. Our top picks may not pan out. It is critical to supplement with UFAs and trades to really make the team better. You can't just constantly suck and draft high. Further, we accumulated assets to not only play on our team, but also to trade. Not everyone of our prospects can play on our team - there is not enough space. A good GM will be able to take the team to the next level after the initial rebuild phase. That is what makes a good or bad GM. I recall during an interview Lombardi raised this point. He said rebuilding is easy, you just auction off players for picks and prospects. It's what you do after that is hard.

 

[Minor Boarding]

I wish I could unread some recent posts. Holy crap.

LGK posters.
You know, the 300 section GMs that make up stuff just to make noise...

 

[Reclamation Project]

Gaborik was such a great trade, he was a MONSTER during the second Cup run. Love that guy.

 

[Mattias]

No need to insult me...keep it civil. I know we won't agree on much because you are in the 7 year rebuild camp and I am not but we can argue our points without insults.

I could give you a pretty good explanation for my reasoning on DL but that is not constructive to the current conversation so I'll let it go. History is what history is and DL got two Cups. I recognize that.

Regarding Blake...I go back to what the expectations were at the beginning of this rebuild. He told (as far as I know) the STH that the Kings would be poised to return to the playoffs in 2022. That would have been AEG's expectations as well. Unless he makes significant moves this summer the playoffs are a fantasy and Blake is on the hot seat. You'll notice that most GM's who start a rebuild (willingly or unwillingly) are not around to finish it. That's because it's easy to destroy a franchise but much tougher to build it back up...even with lots of draft choices. Most GM's aren't talented enough to do the tear down and the build back up. Blake for sure has given no sign that he has any talent to sign key free agents or make team improving trades. If you don't see that then we are truly at loggerheads on this discussion.

Again, I'll be very interested to see what he says to the STH this summer. If the rebuild is extended for another couple of years then he owes the fans an explanation. And at the same time he owes Doughty and Kopitar an explanation and a way out as well. And once the rebuild is extended and Doughty / Kopitar are gone then you are looking at a real Detroit/Ottawa/Buffalo/NJ situation. A 7 year rebuild if not longer and a new GM to fix what Blake started.

Just curious where you have the thought Kings are in year 7 of a rebuild. Yes, they were swept by Vegas in 2017-2018, the Kings still achieved 98 points and made the playoffs. In 2015 they also made the playoffs with 102 points. That to me is not rebuilding. If anything, Kings were looking like a paper tiger, with Kopitar/Doughty/Quick dragging the team into the playoffs but unable to advance due to lack of depth, Sutter being outcoached, ect.

If you look at team totals starting 2018, I could believe adding Kovalchuk could add an element needed. Flawed, yes; but this was the start of Rob Blake. After that awful season it was clear LA could not contend.

Since then LA has started to stockpile prospects. Athletic ranked the Kings as #1 prospect pool in the league. Most rankings will have LA in the top 5.

LA still needs a top line winger prospect. A #1 defenseman to replace Doughty. Then have to give those prospects time to properly develop.

Given LA is spending at the floor of the cap, with contracts coming off the books (along with Buyouts), and a shortened season with empty crowds; Blake should be safe for 2-3 more years.

A few players have graduated to the NHL team (JAD, Bjornfot, Vilardi) but I only see Byfield making it next year. Not enough to move the needle in my opinion.

Don't see UFA players coming to LA who would get the team into the playoffs. But Blake has done a decent job bringing in unexpected talent (Iafallo) and managed to trade away players to open up spots for the youth (Carter).

Cheers.

 

[tomd]

Just curious where you have the thought Kings are in year 7 of a rebuild. Yes, they were swept by Vegas in 2017-2018, the Kings still achieved 98 points and made the playoffs. In 2015 they also made the playoffs with 102 points. That to me is not rebuilding. If anything, Kings were looking like a paper tiger, with Kopitar/Doughty/Quick dragging the team into the playoffs but unable to advance due to lack of depth, Sutter being outcoached, ect.

If you look at team totals starting 2018, I could believe adding Kovalchuk could add an element needed. Flawed, yes; but this was the start of Rob Blake. After that awful season it was clear LA could not contend.

Since then LA has started to stockpile prospects. Athletic ranked the Kings as #1 prospect pool in the league. Most rankings will have LA in the top 5.

LA still needs a top line winger prospect. A #1 defenseman to replace Doughty. Then have to give those prospects time to properly develop.

Given LA is spending at the floor of the cap, with contracts coming off the books (along with Buyouts), and a shortened season with empty crowds; Blake should be safe for 2-3 more years.

A few players have graduated to the NHL team (JAD, Bjornfot, Vilardi) but I only see Byfield making it next year. Not enough to move the needle in my opinion.

Don't see UFA players coming to LA who would get the team into the playoffs. But Blake has done a decent job bringing in unexpected talent (Iafallo) and managed to trade away players to open up spots for the youth (Carter).

Cheers.

The rebuild started in 18-19 and this is their 3rd year in a row picking in the top 10. So this is the end of year three. Again, if the expectations set back in 18-19 were that the Kings were embarking on a 5-7 year rebuild and that the next playoff opportunity was going to be in 24-25 then we would not be having this discussion. Instead, we'd be accessing where things stand halfway through the rebuild.

But a 5-7 year rebuild was NOT the expectation. The expectation was to challenge for a playoff spot in year 4 which is next season. So the discussion needs to be focused on whether we are still relying on the current expectation or is there some new expectation that pushes that timeframe out. And if there is a new expectation then we should know about it and Kopitar/Doughty should be given some say as to whether they want to be part of that or not.

Make sense? I'm really just wanting some accountability from the organization. Shouldn't everyone want that?

 

[Mattias]

The rebuild started in 18-19 and this is their 3rd year in a row picking in the top 10. So this is the end of year three. Again, if the expectations set back in 18-19 were that the Kings were embarking on a 5-7 year rebuild and that the next playoff opportunity was going to be in 24-25 then we would not be having this discussion. Instead, we'd be accessing where things stand halfway through the rebuild.

But a 5-7 year rebuild was NOT the expectation. The expectation was to challenge for a playoff spot in year 4 which is next season. So the discussion needs to be focused on whether we are still relying on the current expectation or is there some new expectation that pushes that timeframe out. And if there is a new expectation then we should know about it and Kopitar/Doughty should be given some say as to whether they want to be part of that or not.

Make sense? I'm really just wanting some accountability from the organization. Shouldn't everyone want that?

Gotcha. Maybe Rob Blake started off optimistic thinking "we can get this done with a new coach, Kovalchuk and more buy-in from the players" but then the wheels just fell off and the team went full dumpster. Upper management could have decided that it was not in the best interest to have a fresh GM come in and say "although we made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years, it it time to rebuild".

Absolutely agree with your post. There needs to be transparency from management to the fans what the direction of the team will be and the growing pains to come. If Kopitar/Doughty do want want to stay, finding a team to swallow that cap and have the capital to trade will be interesting.

Nice post.

 

[tomd]

Gotcha. Maybe Rob Blake started off optimistic thinking "we can get this done with a new coach, Kovalchuk and more buy-in from the players" but then the wheels just fell off and the team went full dumpster. Upper management could have decided that it was not in the best interest to have a fresh GM come in and say "although we made the playoffs 2 out of 3 years, it it time to rebuild".

Absolutely agree with your post. There needs to be transparency from management to the fans what the direction of the team will be and the growing pains to come. If Kopitar/Doughty do want want to stay, finding a team to swallow that cap and have the capital to trade will be interesting.

Nice post.

Thank you.

 

[Bandit]

I can tell that a few of you are the ones that ask the CEO "Are there going to be any layoffs?" at the all hands meeting after a merger is announced, and you actually expect a direct and honest answer.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The rebuild started in 18-19 and this is their 3rd year in a row picking in the top 10. So this is the end of year three. Again, if the expectations set back in 18-19 were that the Kings were embarking on a 5-7 year rebuild and that the next playoff opportunity was going to be in 24-25 then we would not be having this discussion. Instead, we'd be accessing where things stand halfway through the rebuild.

But a 5-7 year rebuild was NOT the expectation. The expectation was to challenge for a playoff spot in year 4 which is next season. So the discussion needs to be focused on whether we are still relying on the current expectation or is there some new expectation that pushes that timeframe out. And if there is a new expectation then we should know about it and Kopitar/Doughty should be given some say as to whether they want to be part of that or not.

Make sense? I'm really just wanting some accountability from the organization. Shouldn't everyone want that?

I think the dissonance between what you're saying and those that are arguing with you actually isn't about philosophy but about timeline.

No one expects a 5-7 year rebuild.

Everyone expects pushing for a playoff spot next year. Arguably, they did exactly what they said this year.

Should there be accountability? Absolutely. So far, though, the results are commensurate with all they've said about the macro picture, even if painful in the micro picture.

 

[tomd]

I can tell that a few of you are the ones that ask the CEO "Are there going to be any layoffs?" at the all hands meeting after a merger is announced, and you actually expect a direct and honest answer.

Wrong scenario.

The comparable scenario is the CEO announces at its Shareholder meeting that the company is going to expand it's product line and it's geographic footprint in the coming year and that EPS for next quarter is estimated to be $1.35 and $5.25 for the full year. The CEO has gone on record. He'd better be damned prepared to answer tough questions if those things don't happen. And just as importantly he should be ready to announce any change to that plan AS SOON AS HE KNOWS IT. Otherwise, his job is at stake (not to mention a massive shareholder lawsuit). This is the Blake comparable. He made a public announcement to ownership and shareholders (STH in this case). If things have changed he'd better be prepared to give details and reasons why he failed as well as a new timeline with specific deliverables.

 

[tomd]

I think the dissonance between what you're saying and those that are arguing with you actually isn't about philosophy but about timeline.

No one expects a 5-7 year rebuild.

Everyone expects pushing for a playoff spot next year. Arguably, they did exactly what they said this year.

Should there be accountability? Absolutely. So far, though, the results are commensurate with all they've said about the macro picture, even if painful in the micro picture.

Totally agree. And the only way to make the playoffs this next season is to add talent from the outside. Counting on 18-21 year old kids to lift the team into the playoffs is a terribly unrealistic plan.

[Edit: On further reflection I think there are some people that are expecting a 5-7 year rebuild and hoping for it!]

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I guess trading Muzzin, Martinez, Toffoli, Carter over the past two years doesn’t spell out what the team is doing to some of you. How transparent do they need to get?

 

[Bandit]

Wrong scenario.

The comparable scenario is the CEO announces at its Shareholder meeting that the company is going to expand it's product line and it's geographic footprint in the coming year and that EPS for next quarter is estimated to be $1.35 and $5.25 for the full year. The CEO has gone on record. He'd better be damned prepared to answer tough questions if those things don't happen. And just as importantly he should be ready to announce any change to that plan AS SOON AS HE KNOWS IT. Otherwise, his job is at stake (not to mention a massive shareholder lawsuit). This is the Blake comparable. He made a public announcement to ownership and shareholders (STH in this case). If things have changed he'd better be prepared to give details and reasons why he failed as well as a new timeline with specific deliverables.

The Kings are selling a product. If you believe their bullshit, that's your problem.