Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Lt Dan]

The cake baking metaphors have totally lost me

 

[KopitarFAN]

Their is also the possibility, and I don't know how real this is because they (AEG) took a hands off approach with Dean and had maintained that thus far, but they hadn't had a year where they lost probably billions of dollars. Point is, they might say we gotta win now and and all but force Rob to fill roster with guys who suit the role, but aren't of the right contract status and age, thus shortening the process, but shortening the window as well.

 

[tomd]

The cake is a lie.



I react. I don't put vague expectations on any given move or need. Which is why tend toward assuming real moves that can change a team are difficult to do in a hard cap league. Especially if we're talking changing a bottom 5 team to an average playoff team. I don't know what he can get, what he can't get, what ownership does or doesn't allow him to do.

The Kings need a lot. A real top line winger, likely on the right side, because they're going with Iafallo on the other. Probably another solid one on top of that. Certainly a real top 2 line C. They might have a 3C, but they need a real 4C.

They could use an upgrade on the RHD, but that's a luxury. They probably need 2 real LHD, even if one is just an upgrade on MacD.

Fair enough. I just want some accountability for this guy. And my accountability criteria would be based upon what HE says. If he says the goal are the playoffs in 21-22 then he should be held accountable for at least making moves that show that is really his goal. The team can fall short as long as they are playing important and meaningful games in the final 10-15 games of the year. If he says the team needs another 2-3 years of rebuilding before they can be competitive then I'd be wondering if he is really the right GM to lead the team.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Fair enough. I just want some accountability for this guy. And my accountability criteria would be based upon what HE says. If he says the goal are the playoffs in 21-22 then he should be held accountable for at least making moves that show that is really his goal. The team can fall short as long as they are playing important and meaningful games in the final 10-15 games of the year. If he says the team needs another 2-3 years of rebuilding before they can be competitive then I'd be wondering if he is really the right GM to lead the team.

But the actual accountability comes from the Kings, not the fans.

Blake didn't get the job with a self proclaimed, or organizational mandate to rebuild. Rebuilding came after the team quit, which was after all the big contracts were signed. There's no Gaborik/Phaneuf deal if the plan was to rebuild.

Did they re-sign Doughty with the thought they would be awful in every year of the deal so far? And in the earliest years of that deal, which will likely be his best years of the deal? Probably not.

Did Doughty re-sign with the thought the team would be terrible in every year of the contract so far?

Maybe he's as delusional as Karlsson up in SJ. Neither guy is paid to know there's a cap.

I'm willing to give Blake room to work with, because the last 3 years weren't the intention. It was all aboard the same train they were on since June 2014 until the Pearson deal.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Fair enough. I just want some accountability for this guy. And my accountability criteria would be based upon what HE says. If he says the goal are the playoffs in 21-22 then he should be held accountable for at least making moves that show that is really his goal. The team can fall short as long as they are playing important and meaningful games in the final 10-15 games of the year. If he says the team needs another 2-3 years of rebuilding before they can be competitive then I'd be wondering if he is really the right GM to lead the team.

If that's the criteria, than despite the current 'look', they're doing it now...

Don't disagree with anything else you're saying though.

 

[tomd]

If that's the criteria, than despite the current 'look', they're doing it now...

Don't disagree with anything else you're saying though.

Yes, except this is a 56 game schedule and they were competitive for about the first 35 games. I'd like to see them playing competitive games into game 70 of a full season.

 

[tomd]

But the actual accountability comes from the Kings, not the fans.

Blake didn't get the job with a self proclaimed, or organizational mandate to rebuild. Rebuilding came after the team quit, which was after all the big contracts were signed. There's no Gaborik/Phaneuf deal if the plan was to rebuild.

Did they re-sign Doughty with the thought they would be awful in every year of the deal so far? And in the earliest years of that deal, which will likely be his best years of the deal? Probably not.

Did Doughty re-sign with the thought the team would be terrible in every year of the contract so far?

Maybe he's as delusional as Karlsson up in SJ. Neither guy is paid to know there's a cap.

I'm willing to give Blake room to work with, because the last 3 years weren't the intention. It was all aboard the same train they were on since June 2014 until the Pearson deal.

Not to belabor the point but you're basically not holding him accountable for anything. If a CEO gets on an earnings call and says what the company's plans are for the coming year, the shareholders have a right to hold him/her accountable for that. Same with Blake; whatever he commits to the STH he should be held accountable for.

As far as the rebuild goes I'm not convinced. I believe Blake gave up on the team far too easily. He added guys like Kovalchuk and Phaneuf and expected those guys to get the team over the hump? One wonders what the team might have achieved with a guy like Pacioretty if that trade had gone through. As part of the "rebuild" he jettisoned guys like Muzzin, Martinez, and Toffoli. It's not like those guys have proven to be washed up. Every one of them is thriving in a better hockey culture. You've said many times that the whole team quit in training camp 2017-18. That might be true but it wasn't necessarily a talent issue. The culture was broken and the players and the organization knew it. And one thing is for certain...Four years later Blake hasn't fixed that.

And, by the way, after 4 years the next trade he makes that actually improves the team will be the first trade he makes that actually improves the team. That is a pretty sobering indictment IMO.

 

[BigKing]

Not to belabor the point but you're basically not holding him accountable for anything. If a CEO gets on an earnings call and says what the company's plans are for the coming year, the shareholders have a right to hold him/her accountable for that. Same with Blake; whatever he commits to the STH he should be held accountable for.

As far as the rebuild goes I'm not convinced. I believe Blake gave up on the team far too easily. He added guys like Kovalchuk and Phaneuf and expected those guys to get the team over the hump? One wonders what the team might have achieved with a guy like Pacioretty if that trade had gone through. As part of the "rebuild" he jettisoned guys like Muzzin, Martinez, and Toffoli. It's not like those guys have proven to be washed up. Every one of them is thriving in a better hockey culture. You've said many times that the whole team quit in training camp 2017-18. That might be true but it wasn't necessarily a talent issue. The culture was broken and the players and the organization knew it. And one thing is for certain...Four years later Blake hasn't fixed that.

And, by the way, after 4 years the next trade he makes that actually improves the team will be the first trade he makes that actually improves the team. That is a pretty sobering indictment IMO.

To be fair, Phaneuf was better for the Kings in 2018 than Gaborik was but I get your point.

This is why I've said he hasn't really done much of anything that requires brain cells but the time for him to show he can build a team is drawing very near.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Not to belabor the point but you're basically not holding him accountable for anything. If a CEO gets on an earnings call and says what the company's plans are for the coming year, the shareholders have a right to hold him/her accountable for that. Same with Blake; whatever he commits to the STH he should be held accountable for.

As far as the rebuild goes I'm not convinced. I believe Blake gave up on the team far too easily. He added guys like Kovalchuk and Phaneuf and expected those guys to get the team over the hump? One wonders what the team might have achieved with a guy like Pacioretty if that trade had gone through. As part of the "rebuild" he jettisoned guys like Muzzin, Martinez, and Toffoli. It's not like those guys have proven to be washed up. Every one of them is thriving in a better hockey culture. You've said many times that the whole team quit in training camp 2017-18. That might be true but it wasn't necessarily a talent issue. The culture was broken and the players and the organization knew it. And one thing is for certain...Four years later Blake hasn't fixed that.

And, by the way, after 4 years the next trade he makes that actually improves the team will be the first trade he makes that actually improves the team. That is a pretty sobering indictment IMO.

The culture was broken after the team ended up making the playoffs and added to the team? Kopitar seemed to play his ass off in 17-18, so what happened in the summer of 2018?

Muzzin, Toffoli, Martinez, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, Carter, Pearson, Lewis, Clifford, etc, we're all here for 2 Cups. Williams, the god of all hockey gods, was still here in 14-15, when they couldn't muster even a decent effort on the last week of the season to earn the right to get swept as defending champs.

One does wonder about Pacioretty. Had it gone through, it would've been Blake doing it though, so it would've been the wrong move.

 

[tomd]

The culture was broken after the team ended up making the playoffs and added to the team? Kopitar seemed to play his ass off in 17-18, so what happened in the summer of 2018?

Muzzin, Toffoli, Martinez, Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, Quick, Carter, Pearson, Lewis, Clifford, etc, we're all here for 2 Cups. Williams, the god of all hockey gods, was still here in 14-15, when they couldn't muster even a decent effort on the last week of the season to earn the right to get swept as defending champs.

One does wonder about Pacioretty. Had it gone through, it would've been Blake doing it though, so it would've been the wrong move.

Or conversely it would have been the right move which was why Blake didn't/couldn't do it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Or conversely it would have been the right move which was why Blake didn't/couldn't do it.

Right, so none of this over the last few days has anything to do with what moves need to be made this summer. You just don't think Blake has it in him to make the right move, no matter what it is. Which may be true.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The AA22 signing turned out well enough. After looking at CF, here are the other guys with nhl games the Kings have traded for or signed over the last couple of years.

Lemieux
Maata
Andersson
Moore
Wolanin
Frk

None of them are true clunkers, as the worst of the bunch can still help improve the AHL club. But other than Moore, who has been a real bright spot, all of those guys would go unclaimed on waivers. Most have this season.

 

[BigKing]

The AA22 signing turned out well enough. After looking at CF, here are the other guys with nhl games the Kings have traded for or signed over the last couple of years.

Lemieux
Maata
Andersson
Moore
Wolanin
Frk

None of them are true clunkers, as the worst of the bunch can still help improve the AHL club. But other than Moore, who has been a real bright spot, all of those guys would go unclaimed on waivers. Most have this season.

That's kind of the point: his moves for non-futures are basically nothing except for the brutal Kovalchuk signing and the Titanic deckchair rearranging of Gaborik for Phaneuf.

I'm glad they went with a rebuild and I'm happy that Blake made a 180 midway through the 2019 season; however, there is a ton of truth to saying Blake has been doing the easy thing which is suck and keep draft picks.

I'm both scared and excited to see what he does once he's back in a position to make moves that are meant to really help the current on-ice product.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Blake is up to this point still an untested unknown. Anyone can tank and collect draft picks.

How he handles the next 2-3 years is where he will really be tested as a GM. Lombardi made some really bold moves from 2009-2012. He also held onto his cards and knew when to back away from some potential disasters.

Lombardi’s three year stretch from 2009-2012 defined the Kings’ Cups. No one remembers or cares about Purcell and Parse and Bernier and penciling in Frolov as the LW of the future. Anyone can collect draft picks and young players and draw up a plan for the future on paper. When things begin to evolve unexpectedly, good GMs adjust. Lombardi was good at that right when the team was on the cusp of contendership.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Blake is up to this point still an untested unknown. Anyone can tank and collect draft picks.

How he handles the next 2-3 years is where he will really be tested as a GM. Lombardi made some really bold moves from 2009-2012. He also held onto his cards and knew when to back away from some potential disasters.

Lombardi’s three year stretch from 2009-2012 defined the Kings’ Cups. No one remembers or cares about Purcell and Parse and Bernier and penciling in Frolov as the LW of the future. Anyone can collect drafts and young players and draw up a plan for the future on paper. When things begin to evolve unexpectedly, good GMs adjust. Lombardi was good at that right when the team was on the cusp of contendership.

Are the Kings close to contention yet for Blake to make such moves? I don't get how people keep making these comparisons when the team Lombardi inherited versus what Blake started with are vastly different.

Different situations with the roster makeup, the prospect pool, the cap situation. The Kings also had three top 5 selections from 2007 to 2009.

You don't give enough credit for making the right moves. Iafallo, Walker, Petersen, all free agent prospect signings. I guess you fail to realize that making trades and acquiring assets like additional first round picks and top prospects requires work. You think Blake is sitting on his hands and just being handed these assets?

And need I remind you all the rebuild started in 2019? That is when Jake Muzzin was dealt, and every move since then has been structured to rebuild the team. Many of you seem to have some unrealistic expectations two years into this rebuild.

 

[bland]

To be fair, Phaneuf was better for the Kings in 2018 than Gaborik was but I get your point.

This is why I've said he hasn't really done much of anything that requires brain cells but the time for him to show he can build a team is drawing very near.

But that was most definitely the wrong move. The Kings already had 4 LHD ahead of Phanuef, everybody and their brother knew Gaborik was looking at back surgery that summer that would see his cap hit freed by LTIR, and Phanuef was done as a player. Blake thought that the core was worthy of another shot, wanted Phanuef, was proven wrong, and had to eat his buyout.

Aside from that and Kovalchuk he has made smart decisions. And the best thing he has done over the past two years is not doing a damn thing. They had to hit bottom and collect talent.

There are a bunch of short-sighted pissers and moaners who simply didn't understand the necessity of the rebuild and want shiney toys to watch now. Screw 'em, the things they want would do far more harm than good.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Are the Kings close to contention yet for Blake to make such moves? I don't get how people keep making these comparisons when the team Lombardi inherited versus what Blake started with are vastly different.

Different situations with the roster makeup, the prospect pool, the cap situation. The Kings also had three top 5 selections from 2007 to 2009.

You don't give enough credit for making the right moves. Iafallo, Walker, Petersen, all free agent prospect signings. I guess you fail to realize that making trades and acquiring assets like additional first round picks and top prospects requires work. You think Blake is sitting on his hands and just being handed these assets?

And need I remind you all the rebuild started in 2019? That is when Jake Muzzin was dealt, and every move since then has been structured to rebuild the team. Many of you seem to have some unrealistic expectations two years into this rebuild.

I’m not criticizing Blake, but I’m also not ready to throw roses at his feet for following an SOP rebuild blueprint that has been around since the 80s. In fact, I was much more critical of Lombardi up until his teams actually started winning.

I’m just not impressed by a non-playoff team collecting draft picks and making non-impact signings. When Iafallo is scoring goals in the playoffs, I’ll give Blake full marks for finding the kid. Until then, this is all just theory and playing with house money.

Again, I’m not criticizing Blake. He has done an acceptable job starting the rebuild and following the SOP. I’m neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed by his performance as a GM thus far. I’m simply whelmed.

 

[BigBrown]

But that was most definitely the wrong move. The Kings already had 4 LHD ahead of Phanuef, everybody and their brother knew Gaborik was looking at back surgery that summer that would see his cap hit freed by LTIR, and Phanuef was done as a player. Blake thought that the core was worthy of another shot, wanted Phanuef, was proven wrong, and had to eat his buyout.

Aside from that and Kovalchuk he has made smart decisions. And the best thing he has done over the past two years is not doing a damn thing. They had to hit bottom and collect talent.

There are a bunch of short-sighted pissers and moaners who simply didn't understand the necessity of the rebuild and want shiney toys to watch now. Screw 'em, the things they want would do far more harm than good.

Could I get some sources on the bolded statement from his time with the Kings? I know I don't remember anything like that, other than Gaborik was always prone to injuries, yet somehow everybody and their brother knew. Granted, my memory is pretty shit so I wouldn't be surprised if I had completely forgotten it.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I’m not criticizing Blake, but I’m also not ready to throw roses at his feet for following an SOP rebuild blueprint that has been around since the 80s. In fact, I was much more critical of Lombardi up until his teams actually started winning.

I’m just not impressed by a non-playoff team collecting draft picks and making non-impact signings. When Iafallo is scoring goals in the playoffs, I’ll give Blake full marks for finding the kid. Until then, this is all just theory and playing with house money.

Again, I’m not criticizing Blake. He has done an acceptable job starting the rebuild and following the SOP. I’m neither underwhelmed nor overwhelmed by his performance as a GM thus far. I’m simply whelmed.

That’s more of a fair assessment, and I don’t think he should be faulted for what he’s doing now with the roster, this is the pattern of rebuilding that I think most of us who experienced the previous rebuild should expect.

Of course the huge difference is that there wasn’t a young core and a respectable pool of prospects to start with when Blake stepped in. In fact, the last Lombardi team was what you’d describe as the blackhole team that he dreaded having, where they weren’t good enough to contend for a playoff spot and not bad enough to land a high draft pick.

It’s still early to make any call on Blake’s tenure as GM because this rebuild is still in it’s early stages. Most of the prospects the team has drafted under him are still very young, and the 2017 class is getting their first full taste of NHL hockey this season. They have three rookies from that draft on this roster, and they’re all 21 year olds.

The direction they take this offseason will also be pretty critical. There are a number of prospects who will be vying for roster spots, yet the roster on paper can still use some upgrades. This offseason is where you hope Blake can find a Handzus or O’Donnell or Scuderi type fit who can help take the transition to the next level as younger players play key roles.

 

[BigKing]

But that was most definitely the wrong move. The Kings already had 4 LHD ahead of Phanuef, everybody and their brother knew Gaborik was looking at back surgery that summer that would see his cap hit freed by LTIR, and Phanuef was done as a player. Blake thought that the core was worthy of another shot, wanted Phanuef, was proven wrong, and had to eat his buyout.

Aside from that and Kovalchuk he has made smart decisions. And the best thing he has done over the past two years is not doing a damn thing. They had to hit bottom and collect talent.

There are a bunch of short-sighted pissers and moaners who simply didn't understand the necessity of the rebuild and want shiney toys to watch now. Screw 'em, the things they want would do far more harm than good.

It is true that many felt Gaborik would eventually be on LTIR so the end result of the trade was bad since he had to eat the buyout. Just saying that Phaneuf provided more to the team--albeit for a short amount of time--than Gaborik was so he did make a trade that appeared to make the team a bit better at that stage in time. Holy shit was he awful the next season though.

We just don't know what to expect from him once he stops simply accumulating assets since he is a first-time GM that has basically only had one off-season where he added to the team and it was a disaster.

 

[bland]

It is true that many felt Gaborik would eventually be on LTIR so the end result of the trade was bad since he had to eat the buyout. Just saying that Phaneuf provided more to the team--albeit for a short amount of time--than Gaborik was so he did make a trade that appeared to make the team a bit better at that stage in time. Holy shit was he awful the next season though.

We just don't know what to expect from him once he stops simply accumulating assets since he is a first-time GM that has basically only had one off-season where he added to the team and it was a disaster.

The thing is that we do know - he committed to a rebuild and not chasing the playoffs by making poor roster decisions is part of that process. I don't care what he says, I care what he does. This organization lost my trust in thier words a long time ago. They consider the fans to be "family" and have framed their public exchanges in terms of hugging and reassuring the "family" instead of being straight. That's okay, I know the game well enough to ignore the platitudes and read between the li(n)es.

I trust their ability to tear it down and amass picks and prospects. I am trusting their ability to stick to the proper plan. I am a little dubious of their ability to develop that talent but I am willing to give them a chance. I have no idea if they are capable of turning it into a contender, but nobody could know that yet. Its all part of a long process that is going well thus far. Its on schedule.

 

[YP44]

I was not a fan of the Kovalchuk signing but i at least got it. The team just lost a close 4 game series against the Knights (yes it was close even though sweep), and their main issued seemed to be on the wing and scoring. Kovalchuk checked both boxes in theory.

Man was Quick good that series.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Upgrading at D is pretty well defined for this club. Everyone can agree that a 25 yo LHD who puts up 35+ points would immediately improve the roster. A guy like Dahlin might be the best potential option. If he plays to his draft potential, being able to play him or Doughty for the whole game is a major asset.

A move at forward is more fuzzy. Is a 2C more impactful versus a #1 winger? Common sense says a goal scorer for Kopitar would be raise the top lines overall output and might win you more games. But this is the kings and Iafallo and Brown will be probably be Kopitar’s wingers until he retires.

Getting a long term 2C just muddies the picture at center ice for the next two years. A 2C means Vilardi is a winger or he and JAD are battling for bottom six minutes. Plus it blocks Byfield effectively from next years top six, as making him into a winger is a potential mistake.

In my opinion, as long as Kopitar is this team’s top forward it’s useless to try and import goals from the forward position. The Kings are better off improving the D in the short term. The path to the playoffs is much quicker if the GA are cut way down.

If you can guy a defenseman who adds goals for and cuts down goals against, then that’s your biggest bang for the buck. Make a splash there Rob Blake and let the kids play at forward and I’ll back off my opinion that you are a slow to move, barely competent GM.

 

[tomd]

The thing is that we do know - he committed to a rebuild and not chasing the playoffs by making poor roster decisions is part of that process. I don't care what he says, I care what he does. This organization lost my trust in thier words a long time ago. They consider the fans to be "family" and have framed their public exchanges in terms of hugging and reassuring the "family" instead of being straight. That's okay, I know the game well enough to ignore the platitudes and read between the li(n)es.

I trust their ability to tear it down and amass picks and prospects. I am trusting their ability to stick to the proper plan. I am a little dubious of their ability to develop that talent but I am willing to give them a chance. I have no idea if they are capable of turning it into a contender, but nobody could know that yet. Its all part of a long process that is going well thus far. Its on schedule.

hmmm...I like to compare what a person says with what he then does. That's how you tell if someone is either competent versus incompetent or a liar versus a truthteller. At the start of this process I believe Blake set 2022 as a return to being competitive for a playoff spot. Does he still believe that? Is he going to take steps to achieve that goal? Is the "rebuild" phase over after this draft and the time for actually building beginning this summer? Those are all reasonable questions that all fans should want to know the answers to. Accountability, Accountability, Accountability. It is demanded in my work...it must be demanded in his.

 

[YP44]

Upgrading at D is pretty well defined for this club. Everyone can agree that a 25 yo LHD who puts up 35+ points would immediately improve the roster. A guy like Dahlin might be the best potential option. If he plays to his draft potential, being able to play him or Doughty for the whole game is a major asset.

A move at forward is more fuzzy. Is a 2C more impactful versus a #1 winger? Common sense says a goal scorer for Kopitar would be raise the top lines overall output and might win you more games. But this is the kings and Iafallo and Brown will be probably be Kopitar’s wingers until he retires.

Getting a long term 2C just muddies the picture at center ice for the next two years. A 2C means Vilardi is a winger or he and JAD are battling for bottom six minutes. Plus it blocks Byfield effectively from next years top six, as making him into a winger is a potential mistake.

In my opinion, as long as Kopitar is this team’s top forward it’s useless to try and import goals from the forward position. The Kings are better off improving the D in the short term. The path to the playoffs is much quicker if the GA are cut way down.

If you can guy a defenseman who adds goals for and cuts down goals against, then that’s your biggest bang for the buck. Make a splash there Rob Blake and let the kids play at forward and I’ll back off my opinion that you are a slow to move, barely competent GM.

I think Vilardi is destined for the wing as is