Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[Rusty Batch]

As would 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019.

Every step of the way their were opportunities to move out a Stanley Cup winning player to improve the asset pool earlier than it was done.

I get it, but right now we have an excellent cap situation and an amazing prospect pool. And we still have Kopi and Doughty. Just seems like we keep rehashing the "shoulda done it earlier" argument instead of dealing with the fact that either way here we are with a NHL ready elite prospect pool, a ton of cap space, and Kopi and Doughty. Not a bad spot to be.

 

[Herby]

Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Thomas, Bjornfot, Anderson and Faber are completely off limits.

You're way to attached to prospects. The facts are, it's all but certain that one of those players will bust/disappoint and very likely two will. It's just the nature of the business, scouting prospects is an inexact science, even today. How long have you been a fan of this team, do you remember some of the prospects from the past? Did you feel the same way about Schenn and POS?

The Kings have very few tradable assets in the organization, trades are an important part of building a winner, look at the cup winning teams, Williams, Carter, Gaborik, Richards, Penner, Greene, Stoll all traded for. How can Blake make trades like this if 7 of the Kings tradable assets are "completely off limits"

 

[Herby]

I get it, but right now we have an excellent cap situation and an amazing prospect pool. And we still have Kopi and Doughty. Just seems like we keep rehashing the "shoulda done it earlier" argument instead of dealing with the fact that either way here we are with a NHL ready elite prospect pool, a ton of cap space, and Kopi and Doughty. Not a bad spot to be.

Kopitar and to some extent Doughty are not going to be positives based on the age of the prospects being hyped.

Kopitar turns 34 this summer, he's old for a hockey player, he's only two years younger than all those 2003 guys, many of whom are either well into retirement or are on their last legs in the league. How much longer do we expect Kopi to keep this up? Even this season we saw some cracks a lot of nights with Kopi.

Kopitar isn't being traded if we land Eichel. Has 3 years left, and 0 prospects will need a big pay raise until then. Our biggest Free agent this offseason is AA. Next season is Kempe and Vilardi. We are fine Cap wise. Bigger issue would be about who moves to the wing and how do we fit all our centers in our line up effectively.

Kopitar is likely going to be productive for a long time. Look at Bergeron. He is almost 3 years older than Kopitar and just put up near PPG numbers. Similar styles.

A little ridiculous to mention Bergeron when just about everyone else from that draft is either well into retirement or on their last legs in the league.

Bergeron is the exception with player aging, not the rule (must be something in the water in New England)

 

[King'sPawn]

Bergeron never skates like he’s got a piano strapped to his back though. Kopitar has played a lot of very hard minutes over his career. I think when he comes crashing down it’s going to happen quite suddenly.

Kopitar has never had his eggs scrambled like Bergeron.

 

[KINGS17]

I get it, but right now we have an excellent cap situation and an amazing prospect pool. And we still have Kopi and Doughty. Just seems like we keep rehashing the "shoulda done it earlier" argument instead of dealing with the fact that either way here we are with a NHL ready elite prospect pool, a ton of cap space, and Kopi and Doughty. Not a bad spot to be.

An NHL-ready prospect pool? Heh, we'll see.

I will stand by what I posted earlier. The Kings won't win jack before Kopitar's deal expires. Doughty maybe has a chance.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Kopitar isn't being traded if we land Eichel. Has 3 years left, and 0 prospects will need a big pay raise until then. Our biggest Free agent this offseason is AA. Next season is Kempe and Vilardi. We are fine Cap wise. Bigger issue would be about who moves to the wing and how do we fit all our centers in our line up effectively.

Kopitar is likely going to be productive for a long time. Look at Bergeron. He is almost 3 years older than Kopitar and just put up near PPG numbers. Similar styles.

Kopitar will end up as a third line center if we acquire Eichel without including Byfield in any trade scenarios. It would be dumb to pay a third line center 10 million aav.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Hey, I was fine with moving Kopitar before he received his retirement contract. I just don't think it will happen. My comment was more about between Kopitar and Doughty, there are better chances of Kopitar taking a short-term, lower cost deal to stick around after their existing deal is up.

Would you rather trade and retain salary on Kopitar or expose him to Seattle?

 

[kilowatt]

Kopitar will end up as a third line center if we acquire Eichel without including Byfield in any trade scenarios. It would be dumb to pay a third line center 10 million aav.

Kopitar has three years left on his contract. He is quite literally the least of our concerns, and keeping him is absolutely essential. Byfield's will be signing his second contract the same summer that Kopitar's falls off. Kopitar is staying a King, and he's arguably the greatest all-time King.

Unless a team wants to trade for Kopitar and send back a younger, better player than Kopitar, I'm not interested in moving him.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Byfield won't be a #1 caliber NHL player for at least 1 more full season. I don't 100% expect him to jump in and be able to put up 75-90 points and play 20 minutes his first season. I hope he is and know he eventually will be, but I expect some sort of adjustment. Kopitar isn't a concern. I wouldn't run a traditional setup with those 3 down the middle, something like 17 minutes, 17 minutes, and 14 minutes.

Hot take - when Kopitar signs his next contract transition him to a winger like Mark Stone and play him alongside Byfield.

 

[Rusty Batch]

An NHL-ready prospect pool? Heh, we'll see.

I will stand by what I posted earlier. The Kings won't win jack before Kopitar's deal expires. Doughty maybe has a chance.

You're too caught up in your own predictions. Let it go.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Kopitar has three years left on his contract. He is quite literally the least of our concerns, and keeping him is absolutely essential. Byfield's will be signing his second contract the same summer that Kopitar's falls off. Kopitar is staying a King, and he's arguably the greatest all-time King.

Unless a team wants to trade for Kopitar and send back a younger, better player than Kopitar, I'm not interested in moving him.

If management is keen on acquiring Eichel, then keeping Kopitar around while having a glutton of centers is not savvy roster/lineup management. Either you are paying a center 10 million to anchor the third line for sentimental reasons or you wasted a #2 selection on a guy that is anchoring the third line/stuck in Ontario. Either way, it’s not smart and indicates that the front office doesn’t have a clue what they are doing.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

You're too caught up in your own predictions. Let it go.

He’s right though, nobody in the prospect pool is blowing anyone away at the moment.

 

[tomd]

If management is keen on acquiring Eichel, then keeping Kopitar around while having a glutton of centers is not savvy roster/lineup management. Either you are paying a center 10 million to anchor the third line for sentimental reasons or you wasted a #2 selection on a guy that is anchoring the third line/stuck in Ontario. Either way, it’s not smart and indicates that the front office doesn’t have a clue what they are doing.

The way I look at it, Kopitar will be a better (maybe much better) NHL player than Byfield for the next two years for sure. If Byfield is ready to take the #1 spot from Kopitar in the 3rd (and final) year of Kopitar's contract then I think the team would be fine with that. The bigger risk is rushing Byfield into the 2c spot next year when he isn't ready.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The way I look at it, Kopitar will be a better (maybe much better) NHL player than Byfield for the next two years for sure. If Byfield is ready to take the #1 spot from Kopitar in the 3rd (and final) year of Kopitar's contract then I think the team would be fine with that. The bigger risk is rushing Byfield into the 2c spot next year when he isn't ready.

If he’s not ready, he probably won’t ever be but I think he is ready for that #2 center spot the way he played and dictated possession during his cup of coffee here. Give him a full off-season to beef up and get stronger/faster etc.

When you select someone at #2, you don’t spend 3-4 years in development or place them on the third line IF you acquire Eichel. I’m just saying it’s horrible roster management.

 

[Rusty Batch]

He’s right though, nobody in the prospect pool is blowing anyone away at the moment.

Not every prospect is going to be a superstar. They have done well in pro hockey. It's a learning curve and high profile prospects that have spent a year in the ahl leading their team are NHL ready. Many of these guys will play on the Kings next season and will rapidly improve because of it. They also will very likely represent upgrades.

 

[tny760]

as much as i think eichel fits, that's a big dick move and i don't think that's something blake's gonna do. i also have reservations about it hamstringing the D corps money-wise in the future but eichel joining would probably mean the eventual departure of doughty unless we draft some god pick in the upcoming draft. the eichel conversation has some amount of merit though imo..

as far as the last page's argument, i'm not sure a byfield 3C for one season is really the end of the world, especially if he's then moving up the next season with kopi's departure. i don't think byfield matures into an NHL 2C as quickly as is being let on.

 

[tomd]

If he’s not ready, he probably won’t ever be but I think he is ready for that #2 center spot the way he played and dictated possession during his cup of coffee here. Give him a full off-season to beef up and get stronger/faster etc.

When you select someone at #2, you don’t spend 3-4 years in development or place them on the third line IF you acquire Eichel. I’m just saying it’s horrible roster management.

It would be no shame (and no surprise) that a barely 19 year-old isn't ready to endure the grind of an 82 game pro schedule. His six games showed promise but didn't conclusively determine that he was "ready". Vilardi looked "ready" after 10 games last year and then flopped this year. I'm not advocating an Eichel trade but I think we agree that the team can't go into next season just planning to promote 2-3 guys from Ontario and sign a cheap UFA and call it a day. Trades are coming...

 

[tny760]

the team can't go into next season just planning to promote 2-3 guys from Ontario and sign a cheap UFA and call it a day. Trades are coming...

i feel like this is the more likely scenario unfortunately. if that's the case, i'm shuttin the book on blake & co personally, i think i'm giving them enough leash already. this season was a waste.

 

[Fishhead]

The way I look at it, Kopitar will be a better (maybe much better) NHL player than Byfield for the next two years for sure. If Byfield is ready to take the #1 spot from Kopitar in the 3rd (and final) year of Kopitar's contract then I think the team would be fine with that. The bigger risk is rushing Byfield into the 2c spot next year when he isn't ready.

I agree, I just want Byfield to be productive on a line next year. On this team there isn't much difference between lines 2 & 3 so I'm not worried about what his line is called, but he needs to be put in a position to succeed.

We all hope he's our next Kopitar, but I will be happy if Byfield can even reach that level at all, and that's not a slight on him in any way. Kopitar just had it from day 1, he was dominant from his first shift. He was barely 19 and made Pronger look like the bitch that he is. He was a year older than QB, but after his first 6 games he already had 7 points. I just hope QB finds his own way and doesn't worry about expectations.

 

[Herby]

If management is keen on acquiring Eichel, then keeping Kopitar around while having a glutton of centers is not savvy roster/lineup management. Either you are paying a center 10 million to anchor the third line for sentimental reasons or you wasted a #2 selection on a guy that is anchoring the third line/stuck in Ontario. Either way, it’s not smart and indicates that the front office doesn’t have a clue what they are doing.

I wonder if anyone in the front office contemplated the possibility that one of Doughty or Kopitar was going to eventually reach a tipping point as the rest of their prime years were wasted on bottom feeder teams? You would think so, but with these two running the show who knows. This is exactly why I am not crazy about having former players running an organization, sometimes you need smart logical thinkers that understand more than just the X's and O's on the ice and let's be honest, most hockey players don't fit the bill.

Everyone seems to be picking sides here, and I am guilty of that too, but do we really know what was discussed with these two specifically about the direction the team was going?

If Blake told Doughty that it was going to be a rebuild that took until 2021 to be successful then Drew has a gripe, because he was either straight up lied to or sold a really big bill of goods by Blake and Luc. Because this team as its currently constructed is nowhere close. And I don't blame Drew for not having the complete faith in the prospects quickly saving the day and helping DD get another kick at it. Drew has been here since 2008 and has been a franchise player basically the entire time. He has been here long enough to have seen Hickey, Tuebert, O'Sullivan, Forbort, Schenn, Moller, Kempe, Pearson, Bernier all be hyped up and then become anything from moderate disappointments to laughably bad. It's easy for fans who are going to have 50,60,70+ years of fandom to be patient with a rebuild and believe in prospects. If this group fizzles out like that group did, or the Jokinen/Berg/Storr group did there will be another group down the road until you hopefully hit a Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Brown group. Drew has probably 5 good years of hockey left, and I don't blame him for being skeptical about young players saving it. He has a shrinking window and I think he's finally realizing it.

Now if Blake told Doughty it was more like 2023 that the Kings would be back to decent and Doughty now doesn't want to wait that long than Drew handled is terribly. Drew should have said nothing and should have gone to Blake and said "I can't wait for this rebuild to end and risk my prime years, I'll waive my NTC please trade me this summer"

Either way, it's another horrible look for a management team that has had a ton of them since taking over in 2017. And that is in addition to Blake being the AGM during the disaster years of 2014-2017 (and still got promoted). Blake won a SC his first year as AGM and since then the team has won 1 playoff game in 7 seasons. 2014-current has been one of the darkest eras of Kings hockey and Blake has been here the whole time. You have to figure the leash on Blake is getting shorter and shorter.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I would support a coaching change IF and only IF all upper brass is fired too. I would be fine with totally clearing house.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

It would be no shame (and no surprise) that a barely 19 year-old isn't ready to endure the grind of an 82 game pro schedule. His six games showed promise but didn't conclusively determine that he was "ready". Vilardi looked "ready" after 10 games last year and then flopped this year. I'm not advocating an Eichel trade but I think we agree that the team can't go into next season just planning to promote 2-3 guys from Ontario and sign a cheap UFA and call it a day. Trades are coming...

No offense, but Vilardi went through hell with back issues and was out of hockey for a while. I personally thought he was toast as a hockey player. I think he’s starting to get back to where he is capable of playing. For Byfield, he just needs an NHL level off-season program that will get him stronger for the grind.

If Eichel is the target, you cannot just stop there. You got to add more than just Eichel,

 

[Docgonzo]

He’s right though, nobody in the prospect pool is blowing anyone away at the moment.

If no prospects are blowing anyone away why do you have Kopitar as a 3c if they trade for Eichel? Wouldn’t he then be a 2c? And whatever prospect would be 3c until they surpass Kopitar?

And paying Kopitar 10mil to be a 3c for a season or 2 doesn’t matter when your 2c is on a ELC. You don’t think even Kopitar slowing down would feast on other teams 3cs and 3rd defensive pairings? Or they use the 2c and 2nd pair against Kopitar leaving our 2c to play against 3-4th lines and bottom pairing Dmen.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I wonder if anyone in the front office contemplated the possibility that one of Doughty or Kopitar was going to eventually reach a tipping point as the rest of their prime years were wasted on bottom feeder teams? You would think so, but with these two running the show who knows. This is exactly why I am not crazy about having former players running an organization, sometimes you need smart logical thinkers that understand more than just the X's and O's on the ice and let's be honest, most hockey players don't fit the bill.

Everyone seems to be picking sides here, and I am guilty of that too, but do we really know what was discussed with these two specifically about the direction the team was going?

If Blake told Doughty that it was going to be a rebuild that took until 2021 to be successful then Drew has a gripe, because he was either straight up lied to or sold a really big bill of goods by Blake and Luc. Because this team as its currently constructed is nowhere close. And I don't blame Drew for not having the complete faith in the prospects quickly saving the day and helping DD get another kick at it. Drew has been here since 2008 and has been a franchise player basically the entire time. He has been here long enough to have seen Hickey, Tuebert, O'Sullivan, Forbort, Schenn, Moller, Kempe, Pearson, Bernier all be hyped up and then become anything from moderate disappointments to laughably bad. It's easy for fans who are going to have 50,60,70+ years of fandom to be patient with a rebuild and believe in prospects. If this group fizzles out like that group did, or the Jokinen/Berg/Storr group did there will be another group down the road until you hopefully hit a Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Brown group. Drew has probably 5 good years of hockey left, and I don't blame him for being skeptical about young players saving it. He has a shrinking window and I think he's finally realizing it.

Now if Blake told Doughty it was more like 2023 that the Kings would be back to decent and Doughty now doesn't want to wait that long than Drew handled is terribly. Drew should have said nothing and should have gone to Blake and said "I can't wait for this rebuild to end and risk my prime years, I'll waive my NTC please trade me this summer"

Either way, it's another horrible look for a management team that has had a ton of them since taking over in 2017. And that is in addition to Blake being the AGM during the disaster years of 2014-2017 (and still got promoted). Blake won a SC his first year as AGM and since then the team has won 1 playoff game in 7 seasons. 2014-current has been one of the darkest eras of Kings hockey and Blake has been here the whole time. You have to figure the leash on Blake is getting shorter and shorter.

I don’t think they lied to Doughty about the timeline, they are too incompetent to evaluate the roster. That’s probably frustrating for Doughty.

For a couple years after DL was canned, they ran around saying they are cup contenders to the fans and we all saw that panned out.

 

[KINGS17]

Would you rather trade and retain salary on Kopitar or expose him to Seattle?

Trade and retain. Kopitar still has great value in a deal for the right team.