2020-2021 St. Louis Blues: Well, ****.

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MissouriMook

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You keep that team together if the chemistry and camaraderie was that strong. DA f***ed up a good thing.


The salary cap says "Hello." No team has been able to keep the band together in the cap era. The Hawks were the closest thing in the cap era to a dynasty and they have had to deal with being a cellar dweller for the last four years because of all of the core players and supporting cast they have had to dump at bargain bins prices. They now have little hope in sight for being a good team much less future championships. The Wirtz's can afford to have a team that is bad indefinitely and play through the highs and lows to pay for those Cups. Stillman and his group cannot and will not.
 

Blueline2757

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The salary cap says "Hello." No team has been able to keep the band together in the cap era. The Hawks were the closest thing in the cap era to a dynasty and they have had to deal with being a cellar dweller for the last four years because of all of the core players and supporting cast they have had to dump at bargain bins prices. They now have little hope in sight for being a good team much less future championships. The Wirtz's can afford to have a team that is bad indefinitely and play through the highs and lows to pay for those Cups. Stillman and his group cannot and will not.

The 19/20 team had a much greater chance of winning again then the currently assembled 21 team. Sorry I just don't see them winning another cup, They'll be a playoff team no doubt, but they'll get bounced. I'm a firm believer in "Defense wins championships" and the current defense isn't good enough to win those championships. The Blues have 2 one dimensional who defenseman who can't defend to save their lives and need sheltering. Parayko is the only Dman on the team who can f***ing defend.

What upsets me the most is the Blues are paying Faulk and Krug who are middle pairing defenseman top 4 dollars and Pietrangelo's contract is cheaper than both Faulk's and Krug's contracts combined.
 

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I started writing this last night but got tired and couldn't think anymore to finish.

So you think I'm a parody. I don't take too kindly to that.

I can't believe some of the stuff I've read tonight.

Petro is the first Blues captain to lift the Cup. How quickly people forget and It's ok with them to write him off because they like their new toys i.e. Faulk and Krug better. Any team that comes off a cup win Secures their core and you don't let your captain and #1 defenseman walk out the door because DA is too subborn get off his high horse and pay the guy what he rightfully deserves, Just like any other top 5 defenseman. I'm going to pull my hair out if someone says because of Covid. Please do not use that excuse, DA could've easily signed him back after the cup win Army knew what Petro wanted and his ego got fat and went and got Faulk and basically slapped Petro in the face. Because of DA fat ego he set the Blues backwards and people are happy with that? I'd like to hear everyone's answer to that question.

Pietrangelo is/was a lot more important to the Blues than people realize. Also don't forget about Bouwmeester he is also a big loss as well.
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Apologies for not being clearer. I never said you are a parody account. I’m fairly certain you are not, but I suspect notenoughbrewer is a deliberate parody. What I said is that you reminded me of that poster because he/she always talked about Brewer, another former captain, and pretty much nothing else. I’ll put it another way, I’m hoping you have more to contribute to the board than rehashing the Pietro departure in perpetuity. It’s good to have passionate Blues fans here. My comparison to notenoughbrewer wasn’t meant as an insult, more just an amusing similarity.

I’m not going to defend Armstrong’s side of things and maybe it really is ultimately his failure, but I do find it pretty ridiculous when some posters on this board don’t credit him for constructing the roster that won the Cup, as though Larry Pleau had something to do with it. I don’t agree that we are privy to enough details of the negotiation to make such abusive comments about Armstrong fairly, and it detracts from your argument. To me, Pietro looked like he knew he wasn’t re-signing when they were in the bubble. He has made some later comments about watching Vegas play in the bubble, and envisioning where he’d fit in. I think he was already strongly positioned toward going there. You can talk about clauses and bonuses, but the fact is that Pietro took less money and less term to go elsewhere. The point is: it’s a complicated situation and to talk about it in such melodramatic (black and white) terms like it’s all stupid Armstrong’s big fat ego ignores Pietro’s agency in this.

The last thing I meant to do was to start arguing about the negotiation AGAIN.

Let me circle back to Pietro appreciation, for the thread’s sake. Both Bouwmeester and Pietro have calm demeanors that can really help set a tone when things are not going well on the ice. The team will miss that. I think there is enough veteran leadership to offset the loss, but it bears watching.
 

Blueline2757

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Apologies for not being clearer. I never said you are a parody account. I’m fairly certain you are not, but I suspect notenoughbrewer is a deliberate parody. What I said is that you reminded me of that poster because he/she always talked about Brewer, another former captain, and pretty much nothing else. I’ll put it another way, I’m hoping you have more to contribute to the board than rehashing the Pietro departure in perpetuity. It’s good to have passionate Blues fans here. My comparison to notenoughbrewer wasn’t meant as an insult, more just an amusing similarity.

I’m not going to defend Armstrong’s side of things and maybe it really is ultimately his failure, but I do find it pretty ridiculous when some posters on this board don’t credit him for constructing the roster that won the Cup, as though Larry Pleau had something to do with it. I don’t agree that we are privy to enough details of the negotiation to make such abusive comments about Armstrong fairly, and it detracts from your argument. To me, Pietro looked like he knew he wasn’t re-signing when they were in the bubble. He has made some later comments about watching Vegas play in the bubble, and envisioning where he’d fit in. I think he was already strongly positioned toward going there. You can talk about clauses and bonuses, but the fact is that Pietro took less money and less term to go elsewhere. The point is: it’s a complicated situation and to talk about it in such melodramatic (black and white) terms like it’s all stupid Armstrong’s big fat ego ignores Pietro’s agency in this.

The last thing I meant to do was to start arguing about the negotiation AGAIN.

Let me circle back to Pietro appreciation, for the thread’s sake. Both Bouwmeester and Pietro have calm demeanors that can really help set a tone when things are not going well on the ice. The team will miss that. I think there is enough veteran leadership to offset the loss, but it bears watching.

No worries. I'm just a passionate fan I love hockey. I'm a straight shooter and I don't sugarcoat.

I do give Army credit for building a cup winning team, but I also give him credit for destroying what he built.

Of course Petro knew he was leaving because DA insulted him to the point where he didn't want to be here anymore, I don't blame him for feeling that way after giving everything to the franchise only to be slapped in the face. In my opinion it wasn't all about the money, It was more about the NMC and bonuses, Yes Petro took less money and term to go elsewhere, Which in my view is clear that it wasn't all about the money. He got exactly what he wanted from another team that the Blues failed to do. That's the way I see it, Everything that I've read and heard it all adds up. I did hear Petro make those comments and he knew he was gone and on his own accord looking at teams where he would fit in, but that is just me speculating. I also want to say Armstrong's comment's about trying to re-sign Petro is his way of saving face because I'm too stubborn to give Petro what he deserves.

And yes the Blues are going to miss both Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo, There's no replacing them. They'll be missed BIG TIME.
 
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BlueSeal

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I'm struggling to see how Petro being Captain has anything to do with the quality of his play relative to others, his candidacy for the Norris or whether or not we should have done more to retain him.

Ask yourself this - if Steen had been named Captain when Backes left and still held that position in 2019 when we won the Cup, would he be automatically be considered irreplaceable, a life-long Selke snub, or the greatest left winger in team history just because he was the first one to lead us to the promised land? I'm not sure why you have so much trouble disassociating the two concepts.


Pietrangelo is a legit 1D. The Blues do not have a legit 1D now because Army wouldn't give a player who was there when the team was horrible and rode with them to the Cup an NMC. He also Captained their only Cup run.

450 Points in 758 games (51 points in 92 games in the playoffs).

He's a core player and a proven part of a Cup winning roster. That's why you retain him.

If you're going to argue that he sucks, I expect you to explain to me what Faulk and Krug have done to even deserve to be in the same conversation because there's no one on that D Corps that holds a candle to Pietrangelo, not even Colt.
 
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BlueSeal

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No worries. I'm just a passionate fan I love hockey. I'm a straight shooter and I don't sugarcoat.

I do give Army credit for building a cup winning team, but I also give him credit for destroying what he built.

Of course Petro knew he was leaving because DA insulted him to the point where he didn't want to be here anymore, I don't blame him for feeling that way after giving everything to the franchise only to be slapped in the face. In my opinion it wasn't all about the money, It was more about the NMC and bonuses, Yes Petro took less money and term to go elsewhere, Which in my view is clear that it wasn't all about the money. He got exactly what he wanted from another team that the Blues failed to do. That's the way I see it, Everything that I've read and heard it all adds up. I did hear Petro make those comments and he knew he was gone and on his own accord looking at teams where he would fit in, but that is just me speculating. I also want to say Armstrong's comment's about trying to re-sign Petro is his way of saving face because I'm too stubborn to give Petro what he deserves.

And yes the Blues are going to miss both Bouwmeester and Pietrangelo, There's no replacing them. They'll be missed BIG TIME.

I think Army has gotten lucky more often than not, especially on the Cup run. He didn't expect anything and called up a rookie and got a HC with limited experience. He signed ROR who was pretty much being ran out of Buffalo, so I wouldn't say anything Army did was anything outside of an act of desperation to hold things together long enough so he could try to keep his job.

People think he's some master architect, he is NOT. The players he put together clicked and the team got up and ran. And like in typical Blues fashion, the moment things work perfectly either someone gets hurt or the front office decides to move players around instead of keeping the core group.

Army's just another of these people and Stillman's caught in the delusion.
 
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Blueline2757

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Pietrangelo is a legit 1D. The Blues do not have a legit 1D now because Army wouldn't give a player who was there when the team was horrible and rode with them to the Cup. He also Captained their only Cup run.

450 Points in 758 games (51 points in 92 games in the playoffs).

He's a core player and a proven part of a Cup winning roster. That's why you retain him.

If you're going to argue that he sucks, I expect you to explain to me what Faulk and Krug have done to even deserve to be in the same conversation because there's no one on that D Corps that holds a candle to Pietrangelo, not even Colt.

Yup, He was drafted and grew up in the Blues organization to be a legit top 5 #1 defenseman and eventually captained the Blues to a Stanley Cup. He is a core player and could've captained the Blues to another 2 or 3 Stanley Cups. Petro could've been a Blues all time leader in GP, G, A, PTS and whatever else there is. He could've had a statue of him out in front of Enterprise and have his number retired, It still might happen but I don't think it will as I have the feeling the bridge between Petro and the Blues is burnt beyond repair. I've said it before and I'll say it again, The Blues made one of biggest blunders in franchise history by not keeping Petro. Big Big mistake.

And I'll throw this in, To be fair during the first half of 2018-19 season, When the team was bad I wanted Petro stripped of the captaincy and wanted him gone, The Blues went on their run and as soon as Petro lifted the cup I forgave him and every bad thing I said about him.
 
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Blueline2757

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I've been rearranging my computer room for my new computer and new desk and I took down my Blues Stanley Cup pictures cause I don't want to see them anymore at least for right now. I'll hang them back up once my anger wears off which won't be for a while. I'm just upset that the Blues would do such a stupid thing not bringing back their captain that they drafted and developed and became captain that was the first to lift the cup.

I've moved on but I still can be angry at the Blues if I want for doing such an idiotic thing like that.
 
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Bye Bye Blueston

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Yup, He was drafted and grew up in the Blues organization to be a legit top 5 #1 defenseman and eventually captained the Blues to a Stanley Cup. He is a core player and could've captained the Blues to another 2 or 3 Stanley Cups. Petro could've been a Blues all time leader in GP, G, A, PTS and whatever else there is. He could've had a statue of him out in front of Enterprise and have his number retired, It still might happen but I don't think it will as I have the feeling the bridge between Petro and the Blues is burnt beyond repair. I've said it before and I'll say it again, The Blues made one of biggest blunders in franchise history by not keeping Petro. Big Big mistake.

And I'll throw this in, To be fair during the first half of 2018-19 season, When the team was bad I wanted Petro stripped of the captaincy and wanted him gone, The Blues went on their run and as soon as Petro lifted the cup I forgave him and every bad thing I said about him.
Find it rich that Blues offered him largest contract in franchise history and he turned it down and instead of being mad at him for leaving for more you are mad at team. That is some f!cked up thinking there.
 

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Find it rich that Blues offered him largest contract in franchise history and he turned it down and instead of being mad at him for leaving for more you are mad at team. That is some f!cked up thinking there.
Blues didn't give Pietro security what he wanted. NMC was his priority #1. He wanted to stay in one place when he sign next contract. Pietro even taked less money for sign Vegas just to get NMC. Pietro wanted to retire as Bluenote. Get retirement show, be a franchise legend, get statue front of Enterprice center, get jersey rise up in the roof.

BUT Blues didn't value Pietro that big of thing. Vegas valued him moore and gave him that security. Pietro is family man, you don't want to move place to other after your childs are young. I respect his vision and how down to earth guy he trully is. He leave everything behind, community etc just for give his kids security. I can't fight against of that nor should anybody else.










I just want to say one thing to Blues owners and front office, Doug Armstrong.




 

Blueline2757

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Find it rich that Blues offered him largest contract in franchise history and he turned it down and instead of being mad at him for leaving for more you are mad at team. That is some f!cked up thinking there.

Lol. Read my post from a couple nights ago that's above and maybe you'll understand. I can be angry at the team if I want.
 
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EastonBlues22

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I'm done arguing about Armstrong, or what the team should have done.

I'm just going to go on the record and say that I think the roster downgrade from Pietrangelo to Krug, and it's overall trickle down effect on the team, is going to have a bigger negative impact than many seem to think (or hope) it will.

I'm also going to go on record and say that Pietrangelo is a lot closer to being a HOF player than he is to being just a "good" player. Not that it matters. Like ROR, another probably not-HOF but still a lot better than good guy, he's just not a guy you can replace with a lesser, niche, player and walk away believing it isn't a significant step back for the team. And it's not like this team had a huge competitive buffer for being Cup contenders as it was.

The roster is basically set now, so I get the "let's focus on what we have and all the positives moving forward" mentality. I even agree to a point...but that point stops at the notion that "our defense is fine and we are still contenders." I think this upcoming season will reveal that it is not, and that we aren't.
 

Stupendous Yappi

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I'm done arguing about Armstrong, or what the team should have done.

I'm just going to go on the record and say that I think the roster downgrade from Pietrangelo to Krug, and it's overall trickle down effect on the team, is going to have a bigger negative impact than many seem to think (or hope) it will.

I'm also going to go on record and say that Pietrangelo is a lot closer to being a HOF player than he is to being just a "good" player. Not that it matters. Like ROR, another probably not-HOF but still a lot better than good guy, he's just not a guy you can replace with a lesser, niche, player and walk away believing it isn't a significant step back for the team. And it's not like this team had a huge competitive buffer for being Cup contenders as it was.

The roster is basically set now, so I get the "let's focus on what we have and all the positives moving forward" mentality. I even agree to a point...but that point stops at the notion that "our defense is fine and we are still contenders." I think this upcoming season will reveal that it is not, and that we aren't.
Is the roster set? I wondered whether there might still be a deal waiting to occur after guys go on LTIR. It seems like a couple unsigned UFAs have deals in hand that can’t be announced now for whatever reason. No inside info, and I haven’t looked at the numbers too closely, but maybe the amateur capologists here can figure out if it’s possible to pick up anyone else of any value.
 

Blueline2757

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Is the roster set? I wondered whether there might still be a deal waiting to occur after guys go on LTIR. It seems like a couple unsigned UFAs have deals in hand that can’t be announced now for whatever reason. No inside info, and I haven’t looked at the numbers too closely, but maybe the amateur capologists here can figure out if it’s possible to pick up anyone else of any value.

There still might be a minor move or 2 but the roster is pretty much set.
 

BlueSeal

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Find it rich that Blues offered him largest contract in franchise history and he turned it down and instead of being mad at him for leaving for more you are mad at team. That is some f!cked up thinking there.

Find it rich that they’d offer him that a contract with no security because Army feels threatened as a GM by a “player who’d have as much power as him with a NMC”

F-k Army and his ego.
 
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ThunderCat

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Is the roster set? I wondered whether there might still be a deal waiting to occur after guys go on LTIR. It seems like a couple unsigned UFAs have deals in hand that can’t be announced now for whatever reason. No inside info, and I haven’t looked at the numbers too closely, but maybe the amateur capologists here can figure out if it’s possible to pick up anyone else of any value.

I've read that the Blues and Bruins were linked to Mike Hoffman.. and he's waiting for final roster moves/LTIR.

It wouldn't surprise me if we signed him to a 1yr deal.
 
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ThunderCat

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Find it rich that they’d offer him that a contract with no security because Army feels threatened as a GM by a “player who’d have as much power as him with a NMC”

F-k Army and his ego.


Do you think Petro will be worth 9mill a year...in the final 4years of that contract??
 
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Blueline2757

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Do you think Petro will be worth 9mill a year...in the final 4years of that contract??

Well in the last 2 or 3 years maybe he wouldn't be worth it. But it's the price you have to pay to keep him and the teams window open.

And I've seen many saying that Pietrangelo is going to turn into Seabrook, I don't ever see that happening. Pietrangelo is a far superior player than Seabrook ever was. Petro's skills might diminish somewhat the more older he gets. but I still see him being good into his mid to late 30's
 
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ThunderCat

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Well in the last 2 or 3 years maybe he wouldn't be worth it. But it's the price you have to pay to keep him and the teams window open.

And I've seen many saying that Pietrangelo is going to turn into Seabrook, I don't ever see that happening. Pietrangelo is a far superior player than Seabrook ever was. Petro's skills might diminish somewhat the more he gets older but I still see him being good into his mid to late 30's


I do think he'll age well with type of style he plays.. but the 8.8mill in the final years of that contract is what scares me!

Diminishes the chances of keeping a core-depth players, and can add Parayko to that list too.

We've downgraded on defense, its obvious, and I'm still questioning the Krug signing.

I'm sure theirs more to it between Army and Petro.. than any of us will never know.


By everything I've been reading.. feels like we're just beating a dead horse here.. over n over again.
Which is fine because it's the off-season.. and it's good hockey talk.


Just hope we don't hear about this over n over throughout the season..
Should we of kept "Petro"??.. Yes!
Did we keep "Petro".. No!

Let's move on eventually!
 
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TruBlu

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I can't wait for the season to start so that we can quit hearing about "what people have written down on paper." Petro is gone, has been for a while; get over it. How about we wait until we see what we have before we all shit our pants and have a nervous breakdown.
 

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I'm done arguing about Armstrong, or what the team should have done.

I'm just going to go on the record and say that I think the roster downgrade from Pietrangelo to Krug, and it's overall trickle down effect on the team, is going to have a bigger negative impact than many seem to think (or hope) it will.

I'm also going to go on record and say that Pietrangelo is a lot closer to being a HOF player than he is to being just a "good" player. Not that it matters. Like ROR, another probably not-HOF but still a lot better than good guy, he's just not a guy you can replace with a lesser, niche, player and walk away believing it isn't a significant step back for the team. And it's not like this team had a huge competitive buffer for being Cup contenders as it was.

The roster is basically set now, so I get the "let's focus on what we have and all the positives moving forward" mentality. I even agree to a point...but that point stops at the notion that "our defense is fine and we are still contenders." I think this upcoming season will reveal that it is not, and that we aren't.
Well said. This pretty much sums up my point of view too.
 
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ThunderCat

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I just don't trust giving out long-term contracts to players in their 30s.

Feels like your paying for past performance.. and you never know how they'll age.
 
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