Speculation: 2020-2021: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 5

[themelkman]

Couple graphs with some sharks players on them






Basically Burns (and the other D men) take a ton of shots attempts, a bunch of shots, and not very many goals.

 

[themelkman]

This ones good though

Donato is very high on the list for a guy with 4th line minutes, Meier 17th is also good.

 

[Karl Prime]

Basically Burns (and the other D men) take a ton of shots attempts, a bunch of shots, and not very many goals.

That makes a lot of sense especially considering the quantity of lower quality shots the D took under DeBoer. Hopefully EK in particular can shoot from better spots more often and can raise his shooting percentage to his career norm.

 

[Lebanezer]

That makes a lot of sense especially considering the quantity of lower quality shots the D took under DeBoer. Hopefully EK in particular can shoot from better spots more often and can raise his shooting percentage to his career norm.

I mean honestly, what the hell kind of system was Deboer running? Tons and tons of low percentage shots from Dmen? So annoying.

 

[themelkman]

I mean honestly, what the hell kind of system was Deboer running? Tons and tons of low percentage shots from Dmen? So annoying.

Problem is it worked for a while, then teams learned to easily defend it and he never changed it

 

[tiburon12]

Pdb should have known his system was an issue when it took Karlsson until like late November to finally score (18-19 season)

 

[Cas]

Pdb should have known his system was an issue when it took Karlsson until like late November to finally score (18-19 season)

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

 

[Barrie22]

"Am I out of touch? No, it's the players who are wrong."

Didn't he actually something along those lines. Like the system works, the players just need to implement it better.

 

[Patty Ice]

Reading the Kurz article, an interview with Hertl, he (Hertl) mentions that he believes that the Sharks possess one of the best defense and have a lot of skill in the top 6 that most teams don't (I know controversial for all the Doomers) but did not mention goaltending. You would think he would mention a sign of faith if there was one since he wanted to make those other bold claims. I think this as been the crux of the Sharks problems. I dont think they have any faith that they can count on solid goaltending on a consistent basis.

 

[seroes]

Reading the Kurz article, an interview with Hertl, he (Hertl) mentions that he believes that the Sharks possess one of the best defense and have a lot of skill in the top 6 that most teams don't (I know controversial for all the Doomers) but did not mention goaltending. You would think he would mention a sign of faith if there was one since he wanted to make those other bold claims. I think this as been the crux of the Sharks problems. I dont think they have any faith that they can count on solid goaltending on a consistent basis.

It doesn't really mean anything. Just as if he had been positive on the goaltending but didn't mention oor defense. When players do interviews now, whatever they say in regards to the team is almost always just corporate nothing speak.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Reading the Kurz article, an interview with Hertl, he (Hertl) mentions that he believes that the Sharks possess one of the best defense and have a lot of skill in the top 6 that most teams don't (I know controversial for all the Doomers) but did not mention goaltending. You would think he would mention a sign of faith if there was one since he wanted to make those other bold claims. I think this as been the crux of the Sharks problems. I dont think they have any faith that they can count on solid goaltending on a consistent basis.

I think you're probably reading too much into what he said or didn't say. Their biggest problem by far IMO, especially after BB took over was lack of offense.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Problem is it worked for a while, then teams learned to easily defend it and he never changed it

I disagree. The injuries and lack of talent hurt the systems effectiveness far more than any adjustments made by other teams.

Pdb should have known his system was an issue when it took Karlsson until like late November to finally score (18-19 season)

I'm glad PDB is gone but... To be fair, his system of offense set the team record for scoring and finished 3rd in the league just one season earlier when more players were healthy longer and they had better than AHL depth in the bottom 6. As aggravating as it was to watch them continually funnel pucks to the D-men, they scored a shit ton of goals using that system. Problem is that it required talent and the D-men always trying to hold the offensive blue line resulted in horrible defensive breakdowns and miscues. They went from 3rd in the league to 27th in GF in one season. That's brutal and can't be blamed all on the system.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

This ones good though

Donato is very high on the list for a guy with 4th line minutes, Meier 17th is also good.

Geez, if Donato really pans out that solves a huge problem for this team.

 

[Barrie22]

I disagree. The injuries and lack of talent hurt the systems effectiveness far more than any adjustments made by other teams.


I'm glad PDB is gone but... To be fair, his system of offense set the team record for scoring and finished 3rd in the league just one season earlier when more players were healthy longer and they had better than AHL depth in the bottom 6. As aggravating as it was to watch them continually funnel pucks to the D-men, they scored a shit ton of goals using that system. Problem is that it required talent and the D-men always trying to hold the offensive blue line resulted in horrible defensive breakdowns and miscues. They went from 3rd in the league to 27th in GF in one season. That's brutal and can't be blamed all on the system.

As the team got better offensively it got worse defensively.

From the year the system changed 2016-17 to his firing.

2016-17 - 16th offense, 5th defense.
2017-18 - 13th offense, 10th defense.
2018-19 - 2nd offense, 21st defense.
2019-20 (december 10th) - 21st offense, 30th defense.

 

[weastern bias]

Problem is it worked for a while, then teams learned to easily defend it and he never changed it

We also lost Joe Pavelski who turned a lot of point shots into goals with his tips

 

[seroes]

I disagree. The injuries and lack of talent hurt the systems effectiveness far more than any adjustments made by other teams.


I'm glad PDB is gone but... To be fair, his system of offense set the team record for scoring and finished 3rd in the league just one season earlier when more players were healthy longer and they had better than AHL depth in the bottom 6. As aggravating as it was to watch them continually funnel pucks to the D-men, they scored a shit ton of goals using that system. Problem is that it required talent and the D-men always trying to hold the offensive blue line resulted in horrible defensive breakdowns and miscues. They went from 3rd in the league to 27th in GF in one season. That's brutal and can't be blamed all on the system.

I think there is a lot of blame to go around. The reason his system worked is we outscored all of our problems. We had a an excellent top 9 and Burns and later Karlsson benefited from taking shots from the point and having Pavs being so good at tipping it in.

However, last offseason we lost Pavs, Donskoi, Nyquist, and even Braun. I think we can all admit that the system gave up tons of high danger chances and our goaltending was not up to bailing us out. That was fine, when we were scoring a ton of goals but after losing those 3 forwards and having Sorenson regress, Thornton age 1 more year that we no longer had the horses to successfully implement PDBs system. PDB never really adjusted to our personnel having less firepower. Added to the teams horrible chemistry problems out the gate and starting players who clearly weren't ready to play we were in a lot of trouble.

Once the injuries hit at the end of the year we were done no matter what system we used. But we were in trouble long before that.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

As the team got better offensively it got worse defensively.

From the year the system changed 2016-17 to his firing.

2016-17 - 16th offense, 5th defense.
2017-18 - 13th offense, 10th defense.
2018-19 - 2nd offense, 21st defense.
2019-20 (december 10th) - 21st offense, 30th defense.

Yeah, I know... That wasn't the point. A bunch of people were bagging on the system saying it couldn't score. It scored better than any previous system. It almost took the team to a 2nd finals appearance too.

I think there is a lot of blame to go around. The reason his system worked is we outscored all of our problems. We had a an excellent top 9 and Burns and later Karlsson benefited from taking shots from the point and having Pavs being so good at tipping it in.

However, last offseason we lost Pavs, Donskoi, Nyquist, and even Braun. I think we can all admit that the system gave up tons of high danger chances and our goaltending was not up to bailing us out. That was fine, when we were scoring a ton of goals but after losing those 3 forwards and having Sorenson regress, Thornton age 1 more year that we no longer had the horses to successfully implement PDBs system. PDB never really adjusted to our personnel having less firepower. Added to the teams horrible chemistry problems out the gate and starting players who clearly weren't ready to play we were in a lot of trouble.

Once the injuries hit at the end of the year we were done no matter what system we used. But we were in trouble long before that.

They outscored their problems (a flawed system, as I mentioned) because they had lots of talent and chemistry. Pavs was never going to reproduce those numbers. He either set a career high or 2nd best shooting percentage in his career. Nyquist only played on the team for what, less than 20 games in the regular season. Most of that scoring was done with Donskoi only sort of contributing and and pass having an unrepeatable year. Look I don't want to be the guy defending PDB but this revisionist history here that his system didn't produce goals is just ridiculous. Of course it was deeply flawed and needed to be changed the moment they were using AHL players in the top 9. Anyway, pointless to debate this IMO. I think most of agree, f*** PDB. Not for what he accomplished, which was great IMO. But for failing to adjust and mailing it in his last (partial) season.

 

[matt trick]

Might have been covered, but is Timo Meier's QO now $6M instead of $10M due to a CBA change? Being discussed that Segavhev's QO is $4.8 not the $7M final year salary.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Might have been covered, but is Timo Meier's QO now $6M instead of $10M due to a CBA change? Being discussed that Segavhev's QO is $4.8 not the $7M final year salary.

Old rules are still in place for contracts signed before July 10 I think.

 

[matt trick]

Old rules are still in place for contracts signed before July 10 I think.

Damn, that would have been sweet, though I still expect they'll end up doing an 8 year deal in the 8-9M range.

 

[themelkman]

Damn, that would have been sweet, though I still expect they'll end up doing an 8 year deal in the 8-9M range.

That would be my guess. If he doesnt live up to it, then they cut ends and trade him to someone willing to sign him long term.

 

[seroes]

That would be my guess. If he doesnt live up to it, then they cut ends and trade him to someone willing to sign him long term.

I dont think that will happen though. I think Meier is going to ne here for a long time as a perennial 30-35 goal scorer.

 

[themelkman]

I dont think that will happen though. I think Meier is going to ne here for a long time as a perennial 30-35 goal scorer.

I agree, I have a hope that he can even score 40, but who knows.

 

[seroes]

I agree, I have a hope that he can even score 40, but who knows.

I hope he has a couple of seasons where he does just so the main boards will lay off him when he comes up.

 

[themelkman]

I hope he has a couple of seasons where he does just so the main boards will lay off him when he comes up.

I wish the main boards would ease up on Hertl already