Southern_Canuck
Registered User
- Sep 13, 2004
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Quinn Hughes just said in an interview that his plan is to sign w. The Canucks as soon as the Michigan season is over.
Planning to see him play in a couple of days. This is one guy we are not overrating.
Planning to see him play in a couple of days. This is one guy we are not overrating.
Every fan base over estimates its prospects for the most part. But we also underestimate some. Tanev, Edler and Hutton were probably underrated on here as prospects.
Dare I say even Pettersson. I mean I knew he was going to be pretty good. But this good as a rookie? Same with Horvat and to an extent Boeser.
So there’s a definite tendency overall to overrate but there’s always a few guys who come out of nowhere to surprise like Tanev, Edler and Hutton.
Who will be the next one? It’s hard to predict.
Edler probably won't be back next season. It's doubtful that the contract that Edler gets offered in the summer will make sense for the team. If he waives his NTC and they can get assets at the deadline, great. But I suspect he won't waive and the only way he's back is if he takes a very large hometown discount, which I think is unlikely. That will make for a very young and unproven left side D. Hutton is solid, Hughes will be (but the "when" depends on his development), and Juolevi is in the yet to be determined category.Edler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Gud
Juolevi-Tryamkin??
If we can do some smart depth signings to add to the group.
That’s a alright defence that can make the playoffs next season with solid goaltending and fire power upfront.
Unless Edler suddenly fall off the cliff, it’s totally manageable.
My example is always Toronto, they have one top 2 D (Reilly), two top 4 (Gardiner and Dermott), two bottom D ( Zaitzev and that Russian dude) and Hainsey who should not be a regular.
Hutton is merging as a top 4 D, Stecher is solid bottom pair guy who can play on 2nd pair if necessary. Tanev is a occasional top 2 D with no offence.
If Hughes can put up 40+ pts each season, then we are absolutely fine until Tanev fall off the cliff. Which you would hope this team will have Tanev’s replacement by the time.
Agreed. My main point though is that no one should be too surprised if prospects like Madden and Woo follow a similar path. Both have improved since their draft year.Tanev and Hutton were both surprises for the general fanbase for sure, but for those who followed prospects it wasn't a surprise they became NHL'ers.
I remember Tanev had the ridiculous stat where he wasn't on for an even strength goal against for all or most of a season in college. He has always been sublime defensively. Hutton was hyped in these threads as well for his offensive play in college and we had a semi-revolt when he got benched for the AHL playoffs (only to make the NHL the next fall). Edler had a very strong season in the Dub before seamlessly moving to the pro ranks. He was immediately hyped on HF once we saw him in Kelowna.
I disagree. somewhat. Edler has stated that he is not interested in relocating, and I think he will agree to a mild discount. He gets $5M/yr right now, and I think he would consider $3.5 M on a year to year basis. He has done well financially, and I don't think he really gives a damn about making out like a bandit. I agree with the rest of your statement, though I think Juolevi will at worst be a decent 5 - 6, and most likely a 3 -4 in a couple of years. Can always hope he fills out and becomes a steady top pairing, but that's pretty optimistic.Edler probably won't be back next season. It's doubtful that the contract that Edler gets offered in the summer will make sense for the team. If he waives his NTC and they can get assets at the deadline, great. But I suspect he won't waive and the only way he's back is if he takes a very large hometown discount, which I think is unlikely. That will make for a very young and unproven left side D. Hutton is solid, Hughes will be (but the "when" depends on his development), and Juolevi is in the yet to be determined category.
Absolutely he’s getting overrated, especially in terms of initial impact and overall play.
I would not be surprised at all to see him come in and excel on the PP and score 40 points as a rookie.
I would be extremely surprised if a 5-9 160 lb rookie defender (who will be the smallest defender in the NHL) who is bleeding goals defensively in the NCAA comes in and doesn’t have to be sheltered massively as a rookie. I’d look at Sergachev’s 17-18 season as a reasonable expectation.
I’ve also seen a lot of ‘future Norris winner/superstar’ posts when really he most likely projects more along the lines of Tyson Barrie as a high-scoring 2nd pairing defender.
And Tyson Barrie is a very good player, don’t get me wrong, and a player like that would be a great asset we’ve needed here for as long as anyone can remember. But I’ll believe a guy his size can play top pairing minutes when I actually see it.
Agreed. My main point though is that no one should be too surprised if prospects like Madden and Woo follow a similar path. Both have improved since their draft year.
Absolutely he’s getting overrated, especially in terms of initial impact and overall play.
I would not be surprised at all to see him come in and excel on the PP and score 40 points as a rookie.
I would be extremely surprised if a 5-9 160 lb rookie defender (who will be the smallest defender in the NHL) who is bleeding goals defensively in the NCAA comes in and doesn’t have to be sheltered massively as a rookie. I’d look at Sergachev’s 17-18 season as a reasonable expectation.
I’ve also seen a lot of ‘future Norris winner/superstar’ posts when really he most likely projects more along the lines of Tyson Barrie as a high-scoring 2nd pairing defender.
And Tyson Barrie is a very good player, don’t get me wrong, and a player like that would be a great asset we’ve needed here for as long as anyone can remember. But I’ll believe a guy his size can play top pairing minutes when I actually see it.
Not that I don't agree with the premise of your post but basically everywhere I've looked indicates that he's around 5'10" 175 which is a somewhat substantial difference and is comparable to Ellis and Spurgeon who are probably the two best all-around "manlet" defenders in the game
But yeah, I have no idea why a 7th overall non-consensus pick, who's basically doing no more or no less than what's expected of him in the NCAA, is considered this home run anchor to the Blueline.
The biggest thing Toronto has that the Canucks dont have is that Reilly is a no 1 d-man. He can carry a guy like Hainsey (who by the way is better Gudbranson & Stetcher) and still make that an effective pair. Hughes might be as good as Reilly one day but he won't be next season. Gardiner is like a better version of Hutton, good underlying stats but makes misstakes that makes people thinks he can't defend, the biggest difference is Gardiner score about 20 pts more / yearEdler-Stecher
Hughes-Tanev
Hutton-Gud
Juolevi-Tryamkin??
If we can do some smart depth signings to add to the group.
That’s a alright defence that can make the playoffs next season with solid goaltending and fire power upfront.
Unless Edler suddenly fall off the cliff, it’s totally manageable.
My example is always Toronto, they have one top 2 D (Reilly), two top 4 (Gardiner and Dermott), two bottom D ( Zaitzev and that Russian dude) and Hainsey who should not be a regular.
Hutton is merging as a top 4 D, Stecher is solid bottom pair guy who can play on 2nd pair if necessary. Tanev is a occasional top 2 D with no offence.
If Hughes can put up 40+ pts each season, then we are absolutely fine until Tanev fall off the cliff. Which you would hope this team will have Tanev’s replacement by the time.
Absolutely he’s getting overrated, especially in terms of initial impact and overall play.
I would not be surprised at all to see him come in and excel on the PP and score 40 points as a rookie.
I would be extremely surprised if a 5-9 160 lb rookie defender (who will be the smallest defender in the NHL) who is bleeding goals defensively in the NCAA comes in and doesn’t have to be sheltered massively as a rookie. I’d look at Sergachev’s 17-18 season as a reasonable expectation.
I’ve also seen a lot of ‘future Norris winner/superstar’ posts when really he most likely projects more along the lines of Tyson Barrie as a high-scoring 2nd pairing defender.
And Tyson Barrie is a very good player, don’t get me wrong, and a player like that would be a great asset we’ve needed here for as long as anyone can remember. But I’ll believe a guy his size can play top pairing minutes when I actually see it.
If Hughes can become a Krug/Gostisbehere type player that's a great asset for the Canucks to have with how barren this defense corps is at the moment.
But his size and defensive ability is what will hold him back from being a hard minutes top pairing defenseman. So in that sense, he is being overrated by many Canucks fans who are penciling him in as a future Norris winner based on Twitter gifs of him whizzing around the ice.
He's a good prospect, but projecting him to become the savior who will carry the Canucks blue line for the next decade is unrealistic.
Quinn Hughes just said in an interview that his plan is to sign w. The Canucks as soon as the Michigan season is over.
I'm more concerned about term for Edler than annual salary. Though a $3.5M cap hit could justify a longer term. That said, it's very low and I would be quite shocked if he signed for that. A 5 or 6 year term is probably what he'll be looking for and, as was discussed at length with the Beagle and Roussel signings, that blocks development of youth. If Hutton (bottom 4) and Hughes (top 4) lock in left side D spots (assuming Hughes doesn't play Right D except on the powerplay) where does that leave Juolevi if Edler is signed for 5 years (with an NTC because of the cut rate)? It means one of the younger D will be traded.I disagree. somewhat. Edler has stated that he is not interested in relocating, and I think he will agree to a mild discount. He gets $5M/yr right now, and I think he would consider $3.5 M on a year to year basis. He has done well financially, and I don't think he really gives a damn about making out like a bandit. I agree with the rest of your statement, though I think Juolevi will at worst be a decent 5 - 6, and most likely a 3 -4 in a couple of years. Can always hope he fills out and becomes a steady top pairing, but that's pretty optimistic.
I'm more concerned about term for Edler than annual salary. Though a $3.5M cap hit could justify a longer term. That said, it's very low and I would be quite shocked if he signed for that. A 5 or 6 year term is probably what he'll be looking for and, as was discussed at length with the Beagle and Roussel signings, that blocks development of youth. If Hutton (bottom 4) and Hughes (top 4) lock in left side D spots (assuming Hughes doesn't play Right D except on the powerplay) where does that leave Juolevi if Edler is signed for 5 years (with an NTC because of the cut rate)? It means one of the younger D will be traded.
do I need to put a sarcasm emoji explicitly on everything??
He will be a better Barrie, a much better Barrie down the line, there would be no immediate impact the likes of which our board anticipates, thats why I am entertaining actually signing Karlsson as bridge and mentor to him. ... otherwise I am against these big ticket signings...
I guess we'll see. But I think Elder would get some significant offers from other teams both in dollar amount and term. I just don't think it would be wise for the Canucks to make such an offer. If you're right, he won't make it to free agency.Once again - I disagree. A player who says I won't be traded is saying I want to stay put. I will be annoyed (again) if JB gives Edler a lengthy contract. If he doesn't want to move, give him 1 or 2 years. At a reduced salary, tell him we will do this as long as you want and can play. He's already had his decent payday, he's past his prime.
And this is coming from an Elder fan.
I guess we'll see. But I think Elder would get some significant offers from other teams both in dollar amount and term. I just don't think it would be wise for the Canucks to make such an offer. If you're right, he won't make it to free agency.