GDT: 2019-20 GM #6 LA Kings vs Carolina Hurricanes @7:30pm 10/15/19

[kings11]

Kopitar's production dropped from 92 to 60, Iafallo's production hopped from 9 goals 25 points to 15 goals 33 points.

He's now a third year pro who ripped it up in college as a late bloomer too, I don't understand how everyone wants to put a ceiling on him before this year is over.

While I agree with both you and @BigKing that in a perfect world he'd be on the third line or so, we're not in a perfect world, and he's certainly not hurting the top line, and I'd argue he's helping it a lot more than he's getting credit for.

(I would also follow whoever's suggestion it was in putting Grundstrom a tryout up there too)

I speak for myself on this, but I feel he absolutely does. A better offensive threat be it the guys I named would score on 50% of Iafallo's chances, that mind you are usually prime opportunities.
You're falling for a trap in thinking that his increase from 25pts to 33 pts was impressive. He literally whiffs on 60%-70% of his opportunities and surprisingly he is almost guaranteed to hit anything other than the open net. Kopitar's offensive drop last season was big no doubt but the majority of those points were from his hardwork and nothing more, people keeping missing this but after his single digit totals the first 20ish games or so he finished at damn near a PPG.
Iafallo is along for the gravy train on Kopitar's LW and nothing more, His ceiling is in fact as a 3rd liner, his shot is Charmin soft and for all his hustle he just doesnt have the talent to warrent being in that position. Thats said, he'd look good on a line with Lizotte and Carts but again this is just my opinion.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I speak for myself on this, but I feel he absolutely does. A better offensive threat be it the guys I named would score on 50% of Iafallo's chances, that mind you are usually prime opportunities.
You're falling for a trap in thinking that his increase from 25pts to 33 pts was impressive. He literally whiffs on 60%-70% of his opportunities and surprisingly he is almost guaranteed to hit anything other than the open net. Kopitar's offensive drop last season was big no doubt but the majority of those points were from his hardwork and nothing more, people keeping missing this but after his single digit totals the first 20ish games or so he finished at damn near a PPG.
Iafallo is along for the gravy train on Kopitar's LW and nothing more, His ceiling is in fact as a 3rd liner, his shot is Charmin soft and for all his hustle he just doesnt have the talent to warrent being in that position. Thats said, he'd look good on a line with Lizotte and Carts but again this is just my opinion.

These are made up numbers based on confirmation bias.

Alex Iafallo is shooting at 7% this year, 8.6% for his career.

Toffoli DID spend a year with Kopitar and had his finest season with 31 goals, 58 points, and +35; I don't think you'll see many people clamoring for Kopitar-Toffoli-Lucic again anytime soon though. Toffoli shoots at 10.1% for his career.

I don't think there's a difference between a 7% shooter and a 10% shooter of whiffing on "60-70%" of his opportunities or a guy scoring 50% more of iafallo's chances.

Plagiarizing myself rom earlier:

"His numbers did improve from 9 goals to 15 and from 25 points to 33. That's a 33% increase on a team that went from middle of the pack in scoring to a couple of goals off dead last. The only other player to even have an increase at all was Clifford (who had a massive year by his standards), so a 33% increase in scoring in that situation is pretty insane.

I agree he needs to continue to improve, but I'd argue against him being any sort of problem. In theory, he should be good for 40ish points this year, and I think he's got upside of 50 or more if the team doesn't suck eggs at offense. "

 

[kings11]

These are made up numbers based on confirmation bias.

Alex Iafallo is shooting at 7% this year, 8.6% for his career.

Toffoli DID spend a year with Kopitar and had his finest season with 31 goals, 58 points, and +35; I don't think you'll see many people clamoring for Kopitar-Toffoli-Lucic again anytime soon though. Toffoli shoots at 10.1% for his career.

I don't think there's a difference between a 7% shooter and a 10% shooter of whiffing on "60-70%" of his opportunities or a guy scoring 50% more of iafallo's chances.

Plagiarizing myself rom earlier:

"His numbers did improve from 9 goals to 15 and from 25 points to 33. That's a 33% increase on a team that went from middle of the pack in scoring to a couple of goals off dead last. The only other player to even have an increase at all was Clifford (who had a massive year by his standards), so a 33% increase in scoring in that situation is pretty insane.

I agree he needs to continue to improve, but I'd argue against him being any sort of problem. In theory, he should be good for 40ish points this year, and I think he's got upside of 50 or more if the team doesn't suck eggs at offense. "

I figured you'd know those numbers where exaggerated to prove my point. Dammit RJ step your game up!
Thing is those goals he misses seem to come during game changing moments. Those are the reasons why he should be on lower lines, as you've said Toffoli had a breakthrough on his wing and even now would likely produce at minimum what AI does.
I'm pretty damn sure we're going around in circles on this but my point is this and I think we can all agree taht Kopi's LW needs to be more productive. His line is good thanks to him but at his best he's had a physical raging bull aka Brownie and a shooter aka Toffoli, Gaborik, hell even JDub..

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I figured you'd know those numbers where exaggerated to prove my point. Dammit RJ step your game up!
Thing is those goals he misses seem to come during game changing moments. Those are the reasons why he should be on lower lines, as you've said Toffoli had a breakthrough on his wing and even now would likely produce at minimum what AI does.
I'm pretty damn sure we're going around in circles on this but my point is this and I think we can all agree taht Kopi's LW needs to be more productive. His line is good thanks to him but at his best he's had a physical raging bull aka Brownie and a shooter aka Toffoli, Gaborik, hell even JDub..

I'm with you guys, for the most part. I'm just defensive about Iafallo because of all the posts over the summer trying to leave him off the roster when he's a very useful player that has a spot on ANY NHL roster. And I just think "Iafallo on the top line" is the least of our problems. I don't need a bandaid on a papercut when my entire leg is missing.

 

[BigKing]

Kopitar is currently on pace for 27 goals and 109 points. I think calling him Perimitar so far this year is kind of garbage.

Iafallo is a fantastic complement. Yeah maybe in a perfect world we get a 'true' top-six guy there like some of the powerhouse teams do but there was a 30 point gap between Stamkos and Kucherov and another 50 point gap between them and any other forward, so maybe not.

I also think 1. we don't know what he is for sure yet--Iafallo was one of only two Kings players who improved their production (and pretty largely too) last season, he could end up being that guy, 50+ points next to Kopitar and Brown is Williams territory and 2. as you point out there's no real 'better' option right now so no harm, no foul. He's creative, tenacious, and pretty speedy, which will all be important as Brown and Kopitar age, too.

Kopitar's been on pace for some insane totals in the past as well so I'm not going to pretend like this is sustainable. I said he'll probably get his 70 or so points so I'm not saying he's trash: he just isn't going to be that 2018 version that attacked aggressively.

I know you don't think he will score over 100 points this year, but it is fun with numbers on your part to put up those projections and imply it means he hasn't been Perimitar.

Take away the three points in Edmonton, one of which was a Mike Smith freebie, and he is at five points in six games. Now I've got him at a 68 point pace when I remove the wild Edmonton game. Again, the sample size is too small to start projecting accurately based on current numbers. He got an EN assist in the Nashville game: how many EN opportunities will they have this year?

Only way he gets closer to 90 points is if they can figure out the power play. Maybe they will at some point this season but, of course, that would probably require him to stop being Perimitar on the power play. Unfortunately, the power play is Perimitar headquarters.

 

[BigKing]

Oh, it also looks like only four of his 15 goals last year were assisted by Kopitar whereas it appears four of his nine in 2018 were assisted by Kopitar.

That's kind of wild. Could it be that he is more effective on a third line against weaker competition? Isn't is kind of crazy to ride shotgun to Kopitar's crazy season and only pot maybe four goals as a direct beneficiary of being his linemate?

And to reiterate: I like him as a player. He just won't be this team's top line LW when they are a contender again. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[tny760]

Only way he gets closer to 90 points is if they can figure out the power play. Maybe they will at some point this season but, of course, that would probably require him to stop being Perimitar on the power play. Unfortunately, the power play is Perimitar headquarters.

this is my primary beef with his play right now, he needs to be a shooting threat on the PP or else it will go nowhere, he's far too talented a shooter to be solely the setup guy for kovy/drew

just needs to receive a pass and take a step to the slot and everyone will shit their pants, right now defenders can just play the pass

 

[crassbonanza]

Is he holding the line back? Depends on how you look at it. Put a true #1LW on that line and they would score more so yes, he is holding the line back.

You don't know that Kopitar/Brown would produce more if they replaced Iafallo with a "True #1 LW". I would argue that chemistry is much more important to a line having success rather than just loading up talent on a line and letting it go. You need distributors, triggermen and puck hounds. We have seen that Kopitar has trouble with traditional top line wingers, but has had quite a bit of success with Iafallo/Brown.

He does some nice stuff but he is not a finisher or exceptional facilitator. He is good at hounding the puck, a trait that helps on the first line since both Kopitar and Brown aren't necessarily going gangbusters into the corners to fish out pucks. While it is true that he played the majority of Kopitar's best season as his LW, he also only had 25 points. That season is all on Kopitar simply beasting and asserting himself on the ice. He's gone back to being Perimitar which will probably lead to 70 points but, as we saw in 2018, this team needs him to put up 90+ just to make the playoffs.

Kopitar had 8 points in 5 games leading into last nights game. Are you honestly complaining about his production and play? He has looked great out there...

I don't dislike Iafallo one bit. Nice player and one of (the only?) feather in Blake's cap as it relates to the NHL product since he took over. You win games in this league with guys like him, but its with guys like him contributing on a really good 3rd line--or even 4th line--where he can get much more favorable defensive match-ups.

You win games by having your scoring distributed up and down your lineup by building lines that have chemistry. Look at Toronto, a guy like Hyman may not be a traditional top line winger, but he fits perfectly with Tavares/Marner. You can also see that they are missing a guy like that to compliment the two of them so far this season.

If you find a guy that fits perfectly and compliments his linemates, leading to them both having career seasons, looking to replace him because he doesn't put up 60 makes no sense. Especially when you can use that cap room to improve other lines and increase scoring depth.

 

[Bandit]

Any word anywhere about Doughty's face? I haven't seen anything.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar's been on pace for some insane totals in the past as well so I'm not going to pretend like this is sustainable. I said he'll probably get his 70 or so points so I'm not saying he's trash: he just isn't going to be that 2018 version that attacked aggressively.

I know you don't think he will score over 100 points this year, but it is fun with numbers on your part to put up those projections and imply it means he hasn't been Perimitar.

Take away the three points in Edmonton, one of which was a Mike Smith freebie, and he is at five points in six games. Now I've got him at a 68 point pace when I remove the wild Edmonton game. Again, the sample size is too small to start projecting accurately based on current numbers. He got an EN assist in the Nashville game: how many EN opportunities will they have this year?

Only way he gets closer to 90 points is if they can figure out the power play. Maybe they will at some point this season but, of course, that would probably require him to stop being Perimitar on the power play. Unfortunately, the power play is Perimitar headquarters.

No, I don't think he's in line for a 100 point season, but he's on pace for a lot closer to that than any kind of a bad year where he should be labeled as if he's not a driving force. It's a small sample size, but you're calling him "Perimitar" based on that sample size, so turnabout is more than fair play, no?

I mean, if we're auditing points like that, then let's throw out the Carolina game and he's actually on pace for 32 goals and 131 points!

Now if you want to talk about him being bad on the PP, I think we're all on board with that--but then that's not Iafallo's fault or problem, and we're now going down a different road.

Oh, it also looks like only four of his 15 goals last year were assisted by Kopitar whereas it appears four of his nine in 2018 were assisted by Kopitar.

That's kind of wild. Could it be that he is more effective on a third line against weaker competition? Isn't is kind of crazy to ride shotgun to Kopitar's crazy season and only pot maybe four goals as a direct beneficiary of being his linemate?

And to reiterate: I like him as a player. He just won't be this team's top line LW when they are a contender again. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with that.

I think most of this forum agrees by now that giving Kopitar an "elite LW" makes him deferential and he needs to be the guy. Iafallo helps accomplish that. There's a lot more to his play than raw production.

If you want to make the argument that he'd be more effective down the lineup--as we saw with a pretty buzzsaw Iafallo-Kempe 3rd line--I'm all for that. But you're arguing that he's 'hurting' the top line and I can't get on board with that and it doesn't really frankly make sense if we consider both eye test and results both by Iafallo and any of Kopitar's career wingers not named Brown, Williams, or the ghost of 2014 playoff Gaborik past.

Edit: Also, using the line tool, Kopitar was better last year with Iafallo than without:
2018-2019

And the previous year, a 'better' year since it wsn't a total shitshow that shouldn't be interpreted, the same held true (though Iafallo fell apart goals-for wise without kopiatr but hey, rookie year):
2017-2018

If you go back and look at Gaborik their numbers together were pretty nuclear, to be fair, but the above at least suggests Iafallo isn't hurting Kopitar, he's just not amplifying himself as much as some people want from a top LW.

I know you in particular don't have it out for Iafallo, but this forum as a whole has generally been ready to dumpster him since last year for no explainable reason and it's getting annoying when we have plenty of open gushing wounds all over the lineup.

 

[BigKing]

You don't know that Kopitar/Brown would produce more if they replaced Iafallo with a "True #1 LW". I would argue that chemistry is much more important to a line having success rather than just loading up talent on a line and letting it go. You need distributors, triggermen and puck hounds. We have seen that Kopitar has trouble with traditional top line wingers, but has had quite a bit of success with Iafallo/Brown.



Kopitar had 8 points in 5 games leading into last nights game. Are you honestly complaining about his production and play? He has looked great out there...



You win games by having your scoring distributed up and down your lineup by building lines that have chemistry. Look at Toronto, a guy like Hyman may not be a traditional top line winger, but he fits perfectly with Tavares/Marner. You can also see that they are missing a guy like that to compliment the two of them so far this season.

If you find a guy that fits perfectly and compliments his linemates, leading to them both having career seasons, looking to replace him because he doesn't put up 60 makes no sense. Especially when you can use that cap room to improve other lines and increase scoring depth.

Let's assume that the True #LW has chemistry with them. It's a slam dunk the team is better. Is there a huge uptick in Kopitar's total numbers? Maybe not, but the team would have more depth since Iafallo would be on a lower line where he belongs. That's the whole point: if he is your top line LW then you probably have problems. Or you have C depth of Matthews/Tavares and also have a winger like Marner so then it isn't as big a deal.

A guy like Justin Williams could do the dirty work on a line with them plus put the puck in the net. Iafallo is not of that caliber. As for traditional top line wingers, who has Kopitar had a problem with? The answer is not Kovalchuk since he is not a traditional top line winger during his Kings tenure. Kopitar looked good with Cammalleri/Smyth/Williams/Brown/Gaborik/Lucic/Toffoli. He had quite a bit of success with those guys, guys I would label as traditional top line wingers or, at least, traditional Top 6 wingers. Kopitar is going to get his points because he's really good at hockey and eats up minutes. He can also help get more out of guys, as we've seen with Brown, Lucic, Toffoli and even Gaborik as he was considered dead before getting to play with Kopitar. With Iafallo, I don't know if he is raising him up since I feel he would play the same way, a way that is more effective against weaker competition than he sees playing alongside Kopitar. At the same time, I don't think that Iafallo is really lifting him up either since he basically gets what he gets regardless. Kopitar's "poor" seasons of '15/'17/'19 are due to Perimitar mode and his shot totals being down drastically which is more a function of his play and not the impact of line mates.

All that being said, I'm not looking to replace Iafallo on the roster but rather move him down the lineup. For a fan base that used to always talk about how a change in the Top 6 allowed "everyone to slot in perfectly" following the Carter and Gaborik additions, I'm confused as to why there is push back on eventually upgrading the LW position. Like, why would it be bad if the Kings had a better LW for Kopitar and then Iafallo improves the lower lines? Also, again, I'm not looking to do it this season. Hell, I hope he turns it on and improves to where I think he should remain up there: cool stuff if he does. I just think he is a very Trevor Lewis-type player but, again, I like what Trevor Lewis has brought to the Kings. I also think that Lewis could put up 30 points if he rode shotgun to Kopitar and Brown all season, at least pre-2019 injuries Lewis. I mean, he put up 26 points in 68 games in 2018.

As for Kopitar, I'm not an advanced stats expert, but they look similar or worse than last year. He's also getting more offensive zone starts than last season. The water-skiing hook last night isn't something you usually see from him. Eye test wise, I haven't loved his defensive play but I will take the success rate he is currently seeing with getting shots through as he is currently at 21 shots on goal on 28 attempts. If he would be assertive on the power play, I'd be happier with his game. It is where he is most passive and--aside from defense, goaltending and penalty killing--the power play is a huge problem and he is a guy looked at to make it work. I don't think he's looked amazing because I think he can be better: I hold him to a higher standard and his all-around game is better than what he currently is showing. I'll take the production, but production isn't the end all of analyzing a player. I'm not about to say Kovalchuk looks great because he's at a PPG after six.

 

[BigKing]

No, I don't think he's in line for a 100 point season, but he's on pace for a lot closer to that than any kind of a bad year where he should be labeled as if he's not a driving force. It's a small sample size, but you're calling him "Perimitar" based on that sample size, so turnabout is more than fair play, no?

I mean, if we're auditing points like that, then let's throw out the Carolina game and he's actually on pace for 32 goals and 131 points!

Now if you want to talk about him being bad on the PP, I think we're all on board with that--but then that's not Iafallo's fault or problem, and we're now going down a different road.






I think most of this forum agrees by now that giving Kopitar an "elite LW" makes him deferential and he needs to be the guy. Iafallo helps accomplish that. There's a lot more to his play than raw production.

If you want to make the argument that he'd be more effective down the lineup--as we saw with a pretty buzzsaw Iafallo-Kempe 3rd line--I'm all for that. But you're arguing that he's 'hurting' the top line and I can't get on board with that and it doesn't really frankly make sense if we consider both eye test and results both by Iafallo and any of Kopitar's career wingers not named Brown, Williams, or the ghost of 2014 playoff Gaborik past.

Edit: Also, using the line tool, Kopitar was better last year with Iafallo than without:
2018-2019

And the previous year, a 'better' year since it wsn't a total ****show that shouldn't be interpreted, the same held true (though Iafallo fell apart goals-for wise without kopiatr but hey, rookie year):
2017-2018

If you go back and look at Gaborik their numbers together were pretty nuclear, to be fair, but the above at least suggests Iafallo isn't hurting Kopitar, he's just not amplifying himself as much as some people want from a top LW.

I know you in particular don't have it out for Iafallo, but this forum as a whole has generally been ready to dumpster him since last year for no explainable reason and it's getting annoying when we have plenty of open gushing wounds all over the lineup.

That line tool is hard to read, man. Haha. No surprise that he would be better with him: I haven't argued that anyone currently on the roster would be better and I've made it clear that Kovy with him has not been good. I argued that the top line would be better with a better player at LW. The Kings don't have that player on the current roster (Grundstrom *could* maybe be that guy?) but I'd like to see them have it eventually. I hope it comes from within as well: I'm not endorsing any major dollars being spent this off-season to address it. As it stands, he isn't hurting the top line since there isn't really a better option on the roster. In the big picture, I could see them being better.

In regards to this theory--and since you are good at really digging up stats--are you able to see how many points were scored by Lucic/Kopitar/Toffoli together v. Iafallo/Kopitar/Brown in 2018? Even with Kopitar's crazy season, I wonder if the former still scored more overall.

I agree with him not amplifying himself as much, which I stated in my most recent post. I feel he could do more damage in less minutes against weaker comp while a more gifted offensive player could do more damage on the top line. It's kind of like Wagner. He must have a great goals per minutes played or whatever and, as much as I love the kid, I don't want him on the top line either.

 

[crassbonanza]

Let's assume that the True #LW has chemistry with them. It's a slam dunk the team is better. Is there a huge uptick in Kopitar's total numbers? Maybe not, but the team would have more depth since Iafallo would be on a lower line where he belongs. That's the whole point: if he is your top line LW then you probably have problems. Or you have C depth of Matthews/Tavares and also have a winger like Marner so then it isn't as big a deal.

Well, that is a huge assumption, the guy who will fit chemistry wise with Brown/Kopitar is a feisty guy who mucks in the corner and retrieves pucks for his linemates. I don't think there are many top line players of that ilk in the league right now. Justin Williams fit that mold, but one could even argue that he wasn't a true #1 LW that you are talking about. Just tossing two elite offensive players together does not mean they will mesh, just look at Carter and Nash during their brief stint in Columbus.

As for depth, I would much rather have a high impact player that can carry a line slotted away from Kopitar if there would be no significant impact on his line scoring. It's why the Golden Knight occasionally roll out Stastny on the 3rd line, spreading around the impact forwards is ideal depth.

With Iafallo, I don't know if he is raising him up since I feel he would play the same way, a way that is more effective against weaker competition than he sees playing alongside Kopitar. At the same time, I don't think that Iafallo is really lifting him up either since he basically gets what he gets regardless. Kopitar's "poor" seasons of '15/'17/'19 are due to Perimitar mode and his shot totals being down drastically which is more a function of his play and not the impact of line mates.

If Kopitar gets what he gets regardless, why waste a high end forward on his wing? Why not have him on your second or third line where said high end winger can create matchup issues?

All that being said, I'm not looking to replace Iafallo on the roster but rather move him down the lineup. For a fan base that used to always talk about how a change in the Top 6 allowed "everyone to slot in perfectly" following the Carter and Gaborik additions, I'm confused as to why there is push back on eventually upgrading the LW position. Like, why would it be bad if the Kings had a better LW for Kopitar and then Iafallo improves the lower lines? Also, again, I'm not looking to do it this season. Hell, I hope he turns it on and improves to where I think he should remain up there: cool stuff if he does. I just think he is a very Trevor Lewis-type player but, again, I like what Trevor Lewis has brought to the Kings. I also think that Lewis could put up 30 points if he rode shotgun to Kopitar and Brown all season, at least pre-2019 injuries Lewis. I mean, he put up 26 points in 68 games in 2018.

The slotting down perfectly became a thing because the forward pairs didn't have good chemistry and weren';t producing well. Iafallo isn't holding Kopitar/Brown back so it is not a neccesity for him to be moved from. I would rather leave the Kopitar/Brown/Iafallo line alone and spend assets/cap space to create an elite second line, which you could call a first line if you don't want Iafallo to be a number 1 LW, then he would be a #2 LW.

As for Kopitar, I'm not an advanced stats expert, but they look similar or worse than last year. He's also getting more offensive zone starts than last season. The water-skiing hook last night isn't something you usually see from him. Eye test wise, I haven't loved his defensive play but I will take the success rate he is currently seeing with getting shots through as he is currently at 21 shots on goal on 28 attempts. If he would be assertive on the power play, I'd be happier with his game. It is where he is most passive and--aside from defense, goaltending and penalty killing--the power play is a huge problem and he is a guy looked at to make it work. I don't think he's looked amazing because I think he can be better: I hold him to a higher standard and his all-around game is better than what he currently is showing. I'll take the production, but production isn't the end all of analyzing a player. I'm not about to say Kovalchuk looks great because he's at a PPG after six.

Kopitar's advanced stats are significantly better than last season, but lower/middle of the pack when compared to the other seasons in his career. You are correct that his offensive zone faceoff% is higher than last season, but this season is the second lowest of his career so far. This is a different discussion, but you don't think Kovalchuk has looked good? He has been a dominant force in multiple games this season, at least from my viewing.

 

[kingsfan28]

Kempe did have a great stretch last season and was good in his first complete season.

He is a 3rd liner at best, always labeled as one.

Unfortunately right now he is not bringing much but lets not forget the things above.

I see him as trade bait at some time. He just doesn't fit anywhere or does anything to make you say , he belongs there [either center or wing ]. I hate to say this, but I see him as heading towards a bust.

 

[kingsfan28]

TM can call out Kempe, but not Carter? He has one empty net assist only and zero goals or real assists in 6 games and team worst minus 6. And got over 18 minutes last night. Is he looking better than last year? Yes, he's moving better, looks engaged and better effort, but if TM is talking about 'results, expecting more production'...well, Jeff Carter is the poster boy for that. I hope they are expecting more than 1 empty net assist in 6 games from him. At least Kempe has 2 real assists.

it was warranted . Until Kempe can prove he can win faceoffs, backcheck or actually score on a consistent basis, TM has the right to call him out. So far he's only been good at taking bad penalties. the guy has 30 goals in 193 games, that's not good.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

I see him as trade bait at some time. He just doesn't fit anywhere or does anything to make you say , he belongs there [either center or wing ]. I hate to say this, but I see him as heading towards a bust.

Ok, but how can he heading towards a bust after two double digits NHL seasons in a row and being a part of team Sweden.

Because he plays like crap for 6 NHL games ? 30 goals is bottom forward material. He was a 29th overall pick...

I think you expect too much and draw the wrong conclusions.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Iafallo on the top line is a problem if the team was a contender. Since it isn't, nobody should be upset.

If not Iafallo, who are you putting up there? I think there is a group on here that would like to see Kovalchuk up there with him but the two of them are horrible together.

I do agree that Iafallo is not a Top 6 player and continue to use Lewis as a comparable. Kings are going to need to produce a LW from within to play with Kopitar. The answer is hopefully Kaliyev but he is still probably not looking at being a regular player until 2022. By then, does it matter if he is Kopitar's LW or should he maybe be some other young player's LW? So much can happen between now and then but, for this season and next, LW1 is going to be lacking.

Just curious, then how do you feel about Hyman in Toronto playing with Matthews (not now due to injury, but will be when he comes back)

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Just curious, then how do you feel about Hyman in Toronto playing with Matthews (not now due to injury, but will be when he comes back)

Just a cursory glance around the league has

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson
Crosby next go Guentzel and Simon (usually Hornqvist to be fair), Malkin next to Galchenyuk and Tanev
Last year TBL wasn't loading up the top line, they were often running Palat or JT Miller next to Stamkos/Kucherov

All of whom are most often in the realm of 30-40 points despite who they're playing next to and high powered teams.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Just a cursory glance around the league has

Ovechkin-Backstrom-Wilson
Crosby next go Guentzel and Simon (usually Hornqvist to be fair), Malkin next to Galchenyuk and Tanev
Last year TBL wasn't loading up the top line, they were often running Palat or JT Miller next to Stamkos/Kucherov

All of whom are most often in the realm of 30-40 points despite who they're playing next to and high powered teams.

Exactly....I think the poster who said people are hung up on SC1, SC2,check, energy is precisely correct.

There seems to be a movement to get a complete top 9, and then mix and mesh where they fit....I think the energy 4th line will always be a thing....but I think the league is evolving to a top 9 who are all defensively responsible etc.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I said a while back that I figure Kempe will be traded for a young blueliner at some point. Still think that will happen.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

But therein lies the rub...based on that mantra, of calling out players that do not produce, Kopitar should have been banished from 1C by game 50 last year, as he was horribad and moved to line 3. And guess what would have happened? He would have had 4 goals and 6 assists from there, the last 32 games. You have to put players in positions to succeed. Kempe has never had 2 skilled linemates. He needs that to produce and NO, not all players that have 2 skilled linemates produce. SEE: Iafailure at LW1. The best production Kempe had was his rookie year, after Carter was injured. How so? He played EVERY SHIFT at 2C with Toffoli and Pearson and they were both still playing reasonably well..and Kempe produced. He produces with skilled players. 2 proven cases: This one and Team Sweden. So what best way to see this happen a third time? Put him LW1 and see what he can do.

 

[BigKing]

As far as my opinion of how guys have looked so far, there are those of us that tend to be on the harsher side with others being on the more generous side. I'm on the former while saying Kovalchuk has looked "dominant" would put you on the latter. Maybe Kopitar has been better than I am saying he has been, but he also has not been as good as he's being made out to be. So maybe we just call it and say it is somewhere between these opinions?

As for Kopitar's advanced stats, many of them looked similar to last year and he wasn't up to par last season, hence why I mentioned them.

As for my opinion on Hyman with Toronto, I don't have one haha. It is hard enough watching the Kings let alone the rest of the NHL product. My interest in the league has waned greatly as it gets softer to where I'm now at the point where I pretty much only watch the Kings: I don't even really catch Ducks games anymore. As it relates to the larger topic of wanting a Top 6 level skilled winger in your Top 6, you are still better off with that as opposed to an Iafallo type. If Hyman is playing with Matthews/Marner or Tavares/Marner, it is a horrible comparison to Kopitar/Brown as Marner is in another stratosphere compared to Brown with Brown being someone that seemingly has to play with Kopitar to produce. I'll assume again, but I assume that both of the Leaf's combos can lift the play of Hyman whereas I know that Iafallo isn't necessarily benefiting from being on the top line v. the 3rd.

I brought up Williams earlier. Sure, he isn't a #1LW if you ranked them all from top-to-bottom, but he was a sure-fire Top 6 winger. Iafallo is not. If I have a guy with that skill, his skill set will most likely be better used in a Top 6 role while Iafallo's skill set would be best used on a 3rd line.

As for allocating funds, you don't pay for a Top 6 talent to stick him on a 3rd line where his talent will be wasted. Many Top 6 type wingers don't drive play but need a facilitator, i.e. Kopitar. If your team is stacked down the middle and has a kick-ass 3C option, then maybe you can start talking about it. The Kings best scoring winger is who? Brown? Kovalchuk? Yikes. It makes complete sense to have Iafallo where he is currently at and I like him as a player; however, I'd like someone better offensively up on that line eventually and I'd like Iafallo lower. Put it this way: I think that Iafallo doesn't really lift Kopitar's game but he could really help out Kempe not be a complete waste of time out there.

 

[King'sPawn]

But therein lies the rub...based on that mantra, of calling out players that do not produce, Kopitar should have been banished from 1C by game 50 last year, as he was horribad and moved to line 3. And guess what would have happened? He would have had 4 goals and 6 assists from there, the last 32 games. You have to put players in positions to succeed. Kempe has never had 2 skilled linemates. He needs that to produce and NO, not all players that have 2 skilled linemates produce. SEE: Iafailure at LW1. The best production Kempe had was his rookie year, after Carter was injured. How so? He played EVERY SHIFT at 2C with Toffoli and Pearson and they were both still playing reasonably well..and Kempe produced. He produces with skilled players. 2 proven cases: This one and Team Sweden. So what best way to see this happen a third time? Put him LW1 and see what he can do.

Kempe hasn't been put in a position to succeed?

Who has he not played with? He's 2nd line C and first line PP this season.

 

[kings11]

But therein lies the rub...based on that mantra, of calling out players that do not produce, Kopitar should have been banished from 1C by game 50 last year, as he was horribad and moved to line 3. And guess what would have happened? He would have had 4 goals and 6 assists from there, the last 32 games. You have to put players in positions to succeed. Kempe has never had 2 skilled linemates. He needs that to produce and NO, not all players that have 2 skilled linemates produce. SEE: Iafailure at LW1. The best production Kempe had was his rookie year, after Carter was injured. How so? He played EVERY SHIFT at 2C with Toffoli and Pearson and they were both still playing reasonably well..and Kempe produced. He produces with skilled players. 2 proven cases: This one and Team Sweden. So what best way to see this happen a third time? Put him LW1 and see what he can do.

I bolded your Kopiatr comment. While he didnt have his best all around season, you do realized that at that point he had something like 29pts in 30 games and had nearly a ppg through the rest of season right.. So i'd said thats a bad example to use