Prospect Info: 2019 #11 - Victor Soderstrom, D

[Jakey53]

They had him third. I agree he’s got a big mouth and some lessons to learn about shutting it. But I do not doubt for a second that he was being completely genuine in his statements. I recommend watching the video over again.

I agree that Chayka has a big mouth sometimes, but him saying where a player was on his board is no biggie, he was just stating a fact.

 

[YotesFan47]

Chyka had him third on a his list? I would be very worried if this was the case. It's soooo amazing that teams draft a guy lets say 42nd overall and say "wow we had him the 10th best player in the draft". It's all a lie to pump up your pick and if you don't believe that you have not been following hockey very long (or just listen to the NFL draft same B.S.).
I don't have a problem taking that kid in the middle of the first round. He's among a jumble of very good players that were available. And that's my point. I don't think any other team in that middle draft slot was moving around knowing a bunch of good players were available.
Why blow a second round pick to do that? very DUMB. And I suspect very arrogant on Chyka's part. He outsmarted himself though. I'm sure other GM's were shaking their heads at that point.

Not that you're wrong, but I've had guys in my top 20 that went in the 2nd round, and then made their NHL team that year. I've also had guys in my top 10 who were selected in the 2nd round, and never saw an NHL game. The lists I post here are a consensus of my own thoughts and the thoughts of "professional" lists but my true ranking can sometimes very greatly. I also use pro lists as benchmarks on if we should be trading up or down because while I may have a guy at 9, he'd likely be available at 17 and we could gain an extra pick.

I would't be the least bit surprised to find out NHL teams have guys that most teams rank much lower, very high on their list. In the case of Hayton and Soderstrom, while they were selected higher, it wasn't exactly drastic in the grand scheme. It has also come out that other teams has these players high on their lists as well. Hayton was a top 10 selection for me, Soderstrom was a 20 something selection and was the 5th best defenseman.

Now as Im sure most will think or point out, I'm not an NHL scout. With that said, I've both played and studied hockey for over 20 years so I'm not some schmuck, and there are a lot of posters on here with just as much, if not more experience and I value their evaluations, even if I disagree. I imagine a number of us would have made fantastic scouts had we ever pursued that profession as a career. I also only pay attention to players projected to go in the first round and into the second round and feel like I have a pretty good track record thus far with who I would take vs who was available at our selection. The only miss I think I'd have had in the last decade is Josh HoSang. It's also important to note, the Coyotes have made some better selections than I would have taken so it's not as if I'm claiming to be some god.

The point of all of this is that many of us are educated observers, and with technology what it is today, we have the ability to compile compelling lists. Some of our lists will have guys way up or down from the consensus and to imagine that and NHL team couldn't have the same situation is not realistic. Going against the grain isn't a bad thing, not sticking to your guns because you're afraid of public backlash is cowardly. I appreciate that Chayka is willing to "get his guy", agree or not. The only thing we can judge him on is his success rate. Doesn't have to be 100% who make the NHL but probably shouldn't fall below 60% in the first round, and that's not taking into account any ceilings.

 

[_Del_]

. I appreciate that Chayka is willing to "get his guy", agree or not. The only thing we can judge him on is his success rate. Doesn't have to be 100% who make the NHL but probably shouldn't fall below 60% in the first round, and that's not taking into account any ceilings.

Nope. Sorry. You don't get to draft two guys you say are top-3 picks on your board back-to-back and have either of them fail. Especially when you go way off the reservation and/or trade up for them.
They both need to be top five players coming out of their drafts. Or fire everyone associated with the picks.
If you don't think these are Chayka picks, then look at how Tim left right after the draft and the comments this year about bringing in a bunch of young guys into the scouting staff and shaping them.
If it doesn't work, he's out on his ass.

 

[YotesFan47]

Nope. Sorry. You don't get to draft two guys you say are top-3 picks on your board back-to-back and have either of them fail. Especially when you go way off the reservation and/or trade up for them.
They both need to be top five players coming out of their drafts. Or fire everyone associated with the picks.
If you don't think these are Chayka picks, then look at how Tim left right after the draft and the comments this year about bringing in a bunch of young guys into the scouting staff and shaping them.
If it doesn't work, he's out on his ass.

I'm not saying if they both fail you can't fire Chayka at all, you should if they both fail. If he hits big on Hayton and Soderstrom fails, he should get another chance, especially with Keller and Chychrun being NHL players. They also weren't way off board, but there were other consensus players still available in both cases. The situation also changes based on the performance of the consensus players we left on the table. Maybe Hayton is a high end 3c but Zadina amounts to an AHL all star, are we really mad at that point? Maybe Hayton never makes the NHL full time but neither do the other 10 guys that were ahead of him in the consensus lists. Is that Chayka or just a shit draft? There are factors that need to be taken into account.

 

[_Del_]

Noone cares if you miss with a consensus pick. When you reach for a guy top five and trade for them, people care. He doesn't have a body of work that gets him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[YotesFan47]

Noone cares if you miss with a consensus pick. When you reach for a guy top five and trade for them, people care. He doesn't have a body of work that gets him the benefit of the doubt.

He barely has a body of work to judge him negatively on when it comes to drafting, for all any of us know, he is the smartest one in the room.

And people do care if you miss on a consensus pick, there is just less "I told you so" to add onto it. This is especially true if it's the only player to completely miss out of the peer picks.

 

[Imaravencawcaw]

This whole debate is like reliving the Hayton pick again. Can we at least give the kid until training camp before we start calling this pick a disaster?

 

[hbk]

This whole debate is like reliving the Hayton pick again. Can we at least give the kid until training camp before we start calling this pick a disaster?

Hayton performed very well relative to expectations last season. My views of Soderstrom were limited but he is a very intelligent strong skating RD. I had him in my top 15. I get why we had him targeted. I'm less critical of this selection than I was on Hayton at the time.

 

[_Del_]

I didn't call this pick a disaster, and I wasn't a toaster-tosser on the Hayton pick either. I said Chayka has done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt re: evaluation, and that if Soderstrom isn't a top-pairing defenseman, he needs to go.
I doubt he's particularly endearing and charming in real life, so he may have just gambled away his career with a stupid smug comment.

 

[cobra427]

He barely has a body of work to judge him negatively on when it comes to drafting, for all any of us know, he is the smartest one in the room.

And people do care if you miss on a consensus pick, there is just less "I told you so" to add onto it. This is especially true if it's the only player to completely miss out of the peer picks.

Chayka is saying he is smarter than everyone, all other GM's, by telling us where he had Hayton on the board and saying Soderstrom would have been his #3 pick. Is that suppose to impress us that our super young GM makes these comments? I think he is potentially laying his own trap in a way. His talent evaluation in drafting and trading is mixed so far.

I agree with DEL, Chaka doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, and Jakey, in that the draft involves some luck too. I hope Chayka is GM of the year because of his brilliance/trades/picks I'm pulling for him.

 

[rt]

He apparently didn’t see the talent right under his nose in Domi and Strome.

I’m not mad about Hayton or Soderberg...yet.

 

[YotesFan47]

Chayka is saying he is smarter than everyone, all other GM's, by telling us where he had Hayton on the board and saying Soderstrom would have been his #3 pick. Is that suppose to impress us that our super young GM makes these comments? I think he is potentially laying his own trap in a way. His talent evaluation in drafting and trading is mixed so far.

I agree with DEL, Chaka doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, and Jakey, in that the draft involves some luck too. I hope Chayka is GM of the year because of his brilliance/trades/picks I'm pulling for him.

I just want to make 1 thing clear here before I continue. I'm not claiming that Chayka is the smartest GM in the room, that I've loved his drafts, or that he shouldn't be held accountable for his comments or actions. I'm only trying to make a point that having Hayton and/or Soderstrom or any other player high on an NHL teams draft board relative to media outlets is probably a lot more common than many of us realize. There is likely a greater general consensus in higher rounds but I don't find it unbelievable that teams will really like a guy at a much higher pick than the other 30 clubs. That's just not unrealistic at all and it seems Chayka doesn't let optics stop him from going for that player, rather than hoping that player makes it to the team so it doesn't look as bad.

As its also been stated by others, he's not going to walk out and bash his own pick. How would fans feel if he came out and said, "Yea there were 10 other guys we liked more but they all got selected". He could have used the generic, "We got a player we really like and we're happy he was available at our pick" like every other GM.

If Soderstrom really was #3 on their board and he made a move to get his guy, I applaud him. It's against the grain a bit and he ensured success at the cost of a 2nd, which is low in cost mathematically. If he just said that for optics, which he doesn't seem like the type, then yea he's definitely likely to dig his own grave at some point and that's dumb of him but I think he's being honest and open with his team's fan base.

A lot of GMs, even great ones, have misses. Chayka will be no different, he's just more publicly vocal about what he's doing after he does it and I don't see that as some major flaw that should be added to his resume of reasons to be fired. If he sucks at the draft every year, regardless of his comments, fire him. If these picks pan out as average to below average NHLers, that sucks and he should be held accountable. If these last two drafts netted us Hjalmersson and Horvat then I think that we came out pretty damn good and Chayka should earn the benefit of the doubt.

 

[RemoAZ]

Chayka is a young, inexperienced guy and talks like it. You don't say things like Tocc was the best candidate and it wasn't even close. That bashes the other guys you interviewed and really backs you into a corner. Same thing about his two draft picks. Saying he had them rated way ahead of everyone else just isn't smart. Bashing Strome on the way out has made him look bad. He's made his bed. Now we wait.

 

[_Del_]

He apparently didn’t see the talent right under his nose in Domi and Strome.

I’m not mad about Hayton or Soderberg...yet.

I'm mad because I don't like the odds of Soderstrom becoming a cornerstone top-pairing guy worth trading a first and a second for. You can't pay a premium to move up just so you can say you got "my guy"-- especially when we look to have zero impact players in the system outside Hayton and maybe Soderstrom. I think the odds of this blowing up in our face is high. I don't like how he fixates on guys (Schmaltz, Hayton, Soderstrom) and just pays whatever he has to to get them.

If it works, great he's a genius. If it doesn't, he needs to be gone yesterday. I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's a genius so far. Staff decisions, evaluation decision all look a mixed bag at best right now.

 

[rt]

Chayka is a young, inexperienced guy and talks like it. You don't say things like Tocc was the best candidate and it wasn't even close. That bashes the other guys you interviewed and really backs you into a corner. Same thing about his two draft picks. Saying he had them rated way ahead of everyone else just isn't smart. Bashing Strome on the way out has made him look bad. He's made his bed. Now we wait.

Don’t forget the parting shots at Strome and Perlini.

 

[Jakey53]

Nope. Sorry. You don't get to draft two guys you say are top-3 picks on your board back-to-back and have either of them fail. Especially when you go way off the reservation and/or trade up for them.
They both need to be top five players coming out of their drafts. Or fire everyone associated with the picks.
If you don't think these are Chayka picks, then look at how Tim left right after the draft and the comments this year about bringing in a bunch of young guys into the scouting staff and shaping them.
If it doesn't work, he's out on his ass.

Yep. This is Chayka's team, and management. He more or less hand picked his guys, and his guys told him who to draft. The results are what matters. If the team makes the playoffs, he and RT will be safe. I hope the new owner hires "his guy," an experienced hockey guy to over see his investment.

 

[_Del_]

I honestly think Chayka runs the draft and makes the board. The scouts are the sounding board-- they don't make the list. At least that's what all the talk sounds like to me.

 

[Jakey53]

Chayka is saying he is smarter than everyone, all other GM's, by telling us where he had Hayton on the board and saying Soderstrom would have been his #3 pick. Is that suppose to impress us that our super young GM makes these comments? I think he is potentially laying his own trap in a way. His talent evaluation in drafting and trading is mixed so far.

I agree with DEL, Chaka doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, and Jakey, in that the draft involves some luck too. I hope Chayka is GM of the year because of his brilliance/trades/picks I'm pulling for him.

How is telling us where he had them on his board is saying he is smarter than everyone else? He is a confident young man. He opens his mouth when he shouldn't some times, but that is just his personality.

 

[Jakey53]

I just want to make 1 thing clear here before I continue. I'm not claiming that Chayka is the smartest GM in the room, that I've loved his drafts, or that he shouldn't be held accountable for his comments or actions. I'm only trying to make a point that having Hayton and/or Soderstrom or any other player high on an NHL teams draft board relative to media outlets is probably a lot more common than many of us realize. There is likely a greater general consensus in higher rounds but I don't find it unbelievable that teams will really like a guy at a much higher pick than the other 30 clubs. That's just not unrealistic at all and it seems Chayka doesn't let optics stop him from going for that player, rather than hoping that player makes it to the team so it doesn't look as bad.

As its also been stated by others, he's not going to walk out and bash his own pick. How would fans feel if he came out and said, "Yea there were 10 other guys we liked more but they all got selected". He could have used the generic, "We got a player we really like and we're happy he was available at our pick" like every other GM.

If Soderstrom really was #3 on their board and he made a move to get his guy, I applaud him. It's against the grain a bit and he ensured success at the cost of a 2nd, which is low in cost mathematically. If he just said that for optics, which he doesn't seem like the type, then yea he's definitely likely to dig his own grave at some point and that's dumb of him but I think he's being honest and open with his team's fan base.

A lot of GMs, even great ones, have misses. Chayka will be no different, he's just more publicly vocal about what he's doing after he does it and I don't see that as some major flaw that should be added to his resume of reasons to be fired. If he sucks at the draft every year, regardless of his comments, fire him. If these picks pan out as average to below average NHLers, that sucks and he should be held accountable. If these last two drafts netted us Hjalmersson and Horvat then I think that we came out pretty damn good and Chayka should earn the benefit of the doubt.

Bingo. I have not liked all the trades that Chayka has made, or his picks at the draft, but we don't know all the circumstances surrounding these decisions. Chayka is hired for one thing. Win. What he says means absolutely nothing.

 

[Hogan20]

I know that we had Soderstrom 3rd on our list but maybe we were only consider guys we could draft. Maybe they thought there was no shot at drafting one of Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram, Turcotte or Podkolzin. Meaning our top 5 guys, not in order, were Seider, Broberg, Zegras, Cozens, and Soderstrom.
Then from there, our top 5 may have looked like:
1. Zegras
2. Cozens
3. Soderstrom
4. Seider
5. Broberg

Just a thought.

 

[Jakey53]

Chayka is a young, inexperienced guy and talks like it. You don't say things like Tocc was the best candidate and it wasn't even close. That bashes the other guys you interviewed and really backs you into a corner. Same thing about his two draft picks. Saying he had them rated way ahead of everyone else just isn't smart. Bashing Strome on the way out has made him look bad. He's made his bed. Now we wait.

Nothing wrong saying RT was the best candidate. If the others did not come prepared for the interview, so be it. I don't think he should have bashed Strome, that was not smart, but that's his personality. For me, I don't care what he says, all I want is a winning team, and that will be how he is judged.

 

[Jakey53]

I'm mad because I don't like the odds of Soderstrom becoming a cornerstone top-pairing guy worth trading a first and a second for. You can't pay a premium to move up just so you can say you got "my guy"-- especially when we look to have zero impact players in the system outside Hayton and maybe Soderstrom. I think the odds of this blowing up in our face is high. I don't like how he fixates on guys (Schmaltz, Hayton, Soderstrom) and just pays whatever he has to to get them.

If it works, great he's a genius. If it doesn't, he needs to be gone yesterday. I haven't seen anything that makes me think he's a genius so far. Staff decisions, evaluation decision all look a mixed bag at best right now.

Chayka is a confident young man. He made his bed, and now he has to lay in it. The proof will be in the pudding, starting this year.

 

[rt]

I know that we had Soderstrom 3rd on our list but maybe we were only consider guys we could draft. Maybe they thought there was no shot at drafting one of Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram, Turcotte or Podkolzin. Meaning our top 5 guys, not in order, were Seider, Broberg, Zegras, Cozens, and Soderstrom.
Then from there, our top 5 may have looked like:
1. Zegras
2. Cozens
3. Soderstrom
4. Seider
5. Broberg

Just a thought.

No. Rewatch the video. It was very clear.

Also, you don’t start trying to trade up to 7th overall, offering “significantly more” than 14th and 45th overall so you can get your eighth ranked player.

When Bettman said it was 14+45 for 11 alone, I said at the time that they DEFINITELY had whoever they were going to pick in their top five. The television broadcast panel said that price indicated that whoever they moved up for was in their top five. Chayka has said before that he’d always rather move down than up and moving up usually doesn’t line up from a value perspective. Then Chayka himself stated as plainly as anyone possibly could that Soderstrom was third on their list.

He. Had. Soderstrom. Third.

There’s no other way of looking at it. There’s nothing else to consider. This is the fact of the matter.

 

[Kaizen]

No. Rewatch the video. It was very clear.

Also, you don’t start trying to trade up to 7th overall, offering “significantly more” than 14th and 45th overall so you can get your eighth ranked player.

When Bettman said it was 14+45 for 11 alone, I said at the time that they DEFINITELY had whoever they were going to pick in their top five. The television broadcast panel said that price indicated that whoever they moved up for was in their top five. Chayka has said before that he’d always rather move down than up and moving up usually doesn’t line up from a value perspective. Then Chayka himself stated as plainly as anyone possibly could that Soderstrom was third on their list.

He. Had. Soderstrom. Third.

There’s no other way of looking at it. There’s nothing else to consider. This is the fact of the matter.

Tell us what you really think rt.

 

[rt]

Tell us what you really think rt.

I’m pretty friendly, but a very poor writer. in real life I’m capable of being emphatic without being nasty. It’s also actually pretty easy to change my mind.