GDT: 2018 WJC • Game 09 • Group B: SWE (3) - CZE (1) F

[biotk]

Worth pointing out that Hedman was also playing in his 18YR old season in his draft year, as he was a late '90 born kid in the '91 born draft.

At the same age as Dahlin, Hedman had 2 goals and 4 points in 39 games for Modo. It was his 18YR old season when he broke out offensively and put up similar numbers to what Dahlin is producing now at age 17.

Hedman was less than 4 months older than Dahlin is - they absolutely should be compared using draft year. Doing it your way shifts a difference in age from less than 4 months to one that is more than 8 months.

 

[snipes]

Yeah me as well. He reminds me of McDavid in that he has the physical tools that great players have, but the way he sees and processes the game just sets him apart. Skating fast and having good hands is awesome, but his ability to have his mind keep up to do the right thing in a split second is incredible

He's a dynamic elite player, you don't even need to be that astute at ajudicating players to see how talented Dahlin is. It's so plainly obvious.

 

[93LEAFS]

First of all, Nylander was demoted to 4th line after a rough start, not a couple of shifts! William has looked good lately, but not change the truth,

False about Sweden too, Hockey people had Alex 60-40 to be the better Nhl player, After the worlds and Willys rookie season the winds changed fast. Alex has had a lot of injurie time and perhaps a good juniors can have him going, Hes grittier then Willy and has a better and accurate shot too.

Fashion change every day and its easy to forget a player who has been gone with injurys a long time, but the kid has potentional!

Of course as a Leaf homer you stand behind your pick, willy is good but so are Alex, only different team and different injurie history, we have to wait and see!

Please find me this 60-40 you claim? He played maybe 2 games on the 4th line and was still kept on our PP and was bumped up multiple times in game.

I can't find the thread from the time (probably got nuked in the update). But, here are some links from the time. Here is the Gare Joyce piece.

Alexander Nylander arrived in Mississauga with a lot of buzz last fall, given that his brother William was the Maple Leafs’ first-round pick in 2014 and playing with the Marlies. Some considered William a pure win for the Leafs who owned the eighth pick in that draft, saying that he was comfortably in the top five in that class, maybe as high as No. 3.

That might have been irrational enthusiasm talking but no matter—there’s no knocking what William accomplished with the Marlies this season or in his cameos with the Leafs. Thus did the younger son of former NHL veteran Michael Nylander figure prominently in scouts’ plans this season.

Before Tuesday night’s game, the scouts had seen a lot of the little brother across seven months. “I think that he’s like Willie in a lot of ways but I’d mark him down in each category—a really good skater but not quite as good as Willie, a good playmaker but not as good as Willie,” one Ontario-based scout said.

“I thought the one area (Alexander) might have on his brother was energy—it seemed like he kept his intensity better. But then watching him late in the regular season, I thought he faded a little. In this league he’s still a younger player and (the Steelheads) lean on him pretty heavily. He played a ton of hockey this year and it seemed like he was running out of gas.”

I also know Ryan Yessie and Mark Edwards of HockeyProspect.com said something very similar on the radio leading up to the draft.

If you are going to call me a Leafs Homer, I highly doubt your objectivity when it comes to them due to your dislike for them. I have never been unfair in my evaluation of Alex.

 

[Tryblot]

Watching the highlights and seeing the Czechs shooting the puck while the guy is setting up the net, wtf are they thinking? Who was shooting the pucks? That shit is ridiculous.

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Chytil was pretty much invisible. Necas and Zadina are good, kept thinking of that song "funky cold medina". Swedes keep winning games in the early rounds, impressive run. Fast paced game, Dahlin, Liljegren, Pettersson, Nylander and that little buzz saw Steen were good.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Dahlin's raw tools (skating, size, vision, hockey skills at top speed) are so high, that regardless of any individual qualms you may have in terms of some hockey decisions/IQ, it's just so overwhelming for his age that he's probably got the #1 locked up. Zadina looked incredible as well but Dahlin's combination of size, skating, tools are just too much to pass up on- particularly when you factor his ability to pack more muscle onto that frame.

Didn't think Boqvist showcased anything particularly great tonight to show why he's top 3-5 on some boards. But it's one game.

Thought Liljegren was probably the 1st/2nd best d-man on the ice tonight. If we're factoring in projecting prospects moving forward, Dahlin would be the clear #1.

Bolded is what gives you credibility....

Note: That was sarcasm. Adam Boqvist isnt even on the team.

 

[JAS 39 Gripen]

Big thing Hedman had was he came along at the heart of the Chara hype, and he had the frame of Chara and skated like Bouwmeester. Hedman depended more on projection than Dahlin will. Dahlin has great tools that make him likely to be a franchise defender at the NHL level.

I'd think if we were to compare draft hype for them, Dahlin would have an edge, but I don't think they'd be viewed as a tier apart. Off the top of my head, in the last decade it would probably go like this.

Dahlin
Hedman
Jones
Doughty
Bogosian

Here in Sweden, where we also play and know the game of hockey, the hype that surrounds Dahlin and the comments made by people with some knowledge surpasses Hedmans by a wide margin. Dahlin is a way better hockey player at the same age. So, so so much better. Just b/c Dahlin came up at the NA -radar not that long ago, it dosnt mean that the swedish hockey community and media were sleeping on him as long as TSN and others did.

 

[93LEAFS]

Here in Sweden, where we also play and know the game of hockey, the hype that surrounds Dahlin and the comments made by people with some knowledge surpasses Hedmans by a wide margin. Dahlin is a way better hockey player at the same age. So, so so much better. Just b/c Dahlin came up at the NA -radar not that long ago, it dosnt mean that the swedish hockey community and media were sleeping on him as long as TSN and others did.

Hedman's raw tools would most likely keep him in the same tier even if he wasn't as good a player at the same age. He's 6'6 with high-end skating and mobility. Some may think there is a clear tier divide between the two when it comes to how their NHL potential was viewed, but I don't think that would be an overwhelming view. Dahlin is the better player at 17 and possesses a very impressive combo of elusiveness, vision and hands. But, due to Hedman's tools people had very high expectations for him. Its similar to how people thought Doughty and Bogosian were at the same level at the draft.

 

[firstemperor]

Bolded is what gives you credibility....

Note: That was sarcasm. Adam Boqvist isnt even on the team.

Oversight (which I had known but mindlessly forgot he was injured) and the other Boqvist was used on defense it seemed like for large parts of the night, as another Swedish poster corrected me with. Unless I'm seeing things (i.e. Boqvist playing a defensive pairing of some sort for a decent-large portion of the game), then label me as you wish.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Dahlin looked legitimately like a perfect hockey player in this game. He stuck out like a sore thumb. Controlled the pace so well, so smooth on and off the puck. His stickhandling is ridiculous, his skating is effortless, his awareness and passing are both fantastic. How many passes did he not hit the tape on? Not many, from what I've seen.

I am going to be pumping this guy up so much until the draft.

 

[McClelland]

Please find me this 60-40 you claim? He played maybe 2 games on the 4th line and was still kept on our PP and was bumped up multiple times in game.

I can't find the thread from the time (probably got nuked in the update). But, here are some links from the time. Here is the Gare Joyce piece.





I also know Ryan Yessie and Mark Edwards of HockeyProspect.com said something very similar on the radio leading up to the draft.

If you are going to call me a Leafs Homer, I highly doubt your objectivity when it comes to them due to your dislike for them. I have never been unfair in my evaluation of Alex.

From a couple of shifts to 2 games at the 4th line! Ive seen at least 4-5 games when he started at 4th line! He has played pp as you said and been moved around the lines for a reason! 7 goals , thats a pace for 15-16, he had 22 last season, not a big drop as Marner has dropped from 19 goals, he has 4 now pace for about 10! Marner has also spending time in the 4th line for a reason, has looked better the last 4-5 games though.

LMAO, where did i dislike William or Alex??? Willy is one of the few Leafs player who i like! Coming with false information seems to be your thing! Had you said Marner, then you could have a point because he can easily end up like sam Gagner. About same draft position, ripped up the Ohl prior to Nhl. They both had a good rookieseason. Sam Gagner also looked like a million for a couple of games, then dissapeared for 15 games.

Lived in Sweden for + 20 years and read everything hockeyrelated there, Willy has seen as the fancy one though Alex the more sniper type, both have great tecnical skill both went 8 in the draft. Seen as juniors, Alex been seen the one suited better to the Nhl game.
People forget so easy and change foot when one plays good in the worlds and the Nhl and the other been injured and hadnt break out yet. Alex was also rookie of the year in the Ohl.

We has to wait and see, before we name a winner but at junior age i give the edge to Alex! Dont like to waste time on posters who change the reality and also comes with wild lies! Im done with you!

 

[93LEAFS]

From a couple of shifts to 2 games at the 4th line! Ive seen at least 4-5 games when he started at 4th line! He has played pp as you said and been moved around the lines for a reason! 7 goals , thats a pace for 15-16, he had 22 last season, not a big drop as Marner has dropped from 19 goals, he has 4 now pace for about 10! Marner has also spending time in the 4th line for a reason, has looked better the last 4-5 games though.

LMAO, where did i dislike William or Alex??? Willy is one of the few Leafs player who i like! Coming with false information seems to be your thing! Had you said Marner, then you could have a point because he can easily end up like sam Gagner. About same draft position, ripped up the Ohl prior to Nhl. They both had a good rookieseason. Sam Gagner also looked like a million for a couple of games, then dissapeared for 15 games.

Lived in Sweden for + 20 years and read everything hockeyrelated there, Willy has seen as the fancy one though Alex the more sniper type, both have great tecnical skill both went 8 in the draft. Seen as juniors, Alex been seen the one suited better to the Nhl game.
People forget so easy and change foot when one plays good in the worlds and the Nhl and the other been injured and hadnt break out yet. Alex was also rookie of the year in the Ohl.

We has to wait and see, before we name a winner but at junior age i give the edge to Alex! Dont like to waste time on posters who change the reality and also comes with wild lies! Im done with you!

Please find me these 4 or 5 games he started on the 4th line. You are the one clearly altering reality. He's played 33 minutes with Martin and Moore. You are the one who started by calling him a 4th line player. He started on the 4th line for our first two games on our western Canada swing and was moved back up the line-up once we were in Vancouver. Then had a game primarily with Martin in Pitt.

Please find me that 60/40 stat that you claim.

This isn't picking on Alex when he's down, this is something I said at the time of the draft. Alex played a slightly more pro-game but Willy was more skilled. I've used quotes from scouts to support my claim. You have pulled a number out of thin air and offer no supporting evidence to your claim.

You also claimed it happened after a rough start, but he actually had a great start to the year and struggled a bit in late November/early December.

 

[Jeypic]

I thought liljegren was the best dman this game. He threw the 2 biggest hits in the game, and delivered a beautiful stretch pass that resulted in the first goal. Yes he pinched on a couple of occasions where the puck came back the other way, but his team had him covered properly so it was a non issue. He also transitioned the puck into the offensive zone plenty of times this way more then making up for it. He took a bad penalty, getting a little too physical on the boards with the guy that sacked him, resulting in him being behind the play and getting caught with a grab and pull dive from reaching in. But for the most part his defensive zone coverage and support was great.

Dahlin was the best dman in the first game, but here he was a close second imo, his blown coverage on one play resulted in the Czechs getting one of their best chances. He still had a solid game showcasing his abilities in a good win for the Swedes but I felt overall he was slightly less involved then liljegren, with more ice time. His assist was less impressive then liljegren’s non assist.

I wouldn’t mind seeing liljegren get a bit more ice time on the powerplay.. he’s proven to be more productive on it this season then dahlin, and deserves it. Not that dahlin has been bad at all, but I feel they could compliment each other with a more even split. They both show great vision, passing, and shooting.. dahlin with more patience, and Timothy with more urgency.

Branstromm, while a great player, did not standout this game. Whenever that happens I really worry about his size being an issue at the next level.

Zadina looks like he’s gonna be a legit nhl player.. good 2 way play, strong on the puck, and knows how to snipe. Speaking of sniping.. canucks fans got a nice first round pick last year, Pettersson looks great. Nylander will be a solid nhler too.

 

[McClelland]

1	Auston Matthews (C)	USA	Toronto Maple Leafs	ZSC Lions (NLA)
2	Patrik Laine (HF)	Finland	Winnipeg Jets	Tappara (Liiga)
3	Pierre-Luc Dubois (VF)	Kanada	Columbus Blue Jackets	Cape Breton Screaming Eagles(LHJMQ)
4	Jesse Puljujärvi (HF)	Finland	Edmonton Oilers	Oulun Kärpät (Liiga)
5	Olli Juolevi (B)	Finland	Vancouver Canucks	London Knights (OHL)
6	Matthew Tkachuk (VF)	USA	Calgary Flames	London Knights (OHL)
7	Clayton Keller (C)	USA	Arizona Coyotes	USA Hockey National Team Development Program
8	Alexander Nylander (VF)	Sverige	Buffalo Sabres	Mississauga Steelheads (OHL)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1	Aaron Ekblad (B)	Kanada	Florida Panthers	Barrie Colts (OHL)
2	Sam Reinhart (C/HF)	Kanada	Buffalo Sabres	Kootenay Ice (WHL)
3	Leon Draisaitl (C/VF)	Tyskland Tyskland	Edmonton Oilers	Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
4	Sam Bennett (C/VF)	Kanada	Calgary Flames	Kingston Frontenacs (OHL)
5	Michael Dal Colle (C)	Kanada	New York Islanders	Oshawa Generals (OHL)
6	Jake Virtanen (HF/C)	Kanada	Vancouver Canucks	Calgary Hitmen (WHL)
7	Haydn Fleury (B)	Kanada	Carolina Hurricanes	Red Deer Rebels (WHL)
8	William Nylander Altelius(C/HF)	Sverige

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ridicolous, there are no numbers to claim 60-40! Your examples of links is no evidence only cherrypicking!

As you can see,both went 8 and Alex did it in a much harder draft!(but perhaps you see it different) Thats a hint how the scouts saw it, not some random writer/blogger. People looks so blindly where they are now and forget that talents get injurys and take different paths. But here we speak about talent to succeed in the Nhl before we have the answers, Alex only 19 and only played 15 games in the Ahl this season because of injurys.

Saw that you didnt mention the false claim that i dislike Willy and Alex, such lies is low level of discussion!
Ive seen Nylander start at 4th line 4-5 games, not need to waste any time to prove it. Both him and Marner got demoted because Babcock wasnt happy with their performances,that the truth, so take it and get over it.

That they both struggling to score isnt any secret, read the sheets, 7 and 4 goals almost half season gone! Willy has spent about 50% time with Matthews Ev strenght, Babcock has tried have him going for a while in different lines, hopefully he has turned around a hard 2 half season.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

I thought liljegren was the best dman this game.

You can't be serious?

 

[lawrence]

You can't be serious?

he's probably not. Which is scary.

 

[Wings4Life]

Good game by Sweden today, they were in control for the most part.

On D I was most imperssed by Dahlin and Liljegren.

 

[snipes]

You can't be serious?

He's not kidding which is funny. However, Liljegren had some really nice hits and flashed but Dahlin just looked head and shoulders the best player on the ice to my eyes.

 

[McClelland]

Please find me these 4 or 5 games he started on the 4th line. You are the one clearly altering reality. He's played 33 minutes with Martin and Moore. You are the one who started by calling him a 4th line player. He started on the 4th line for our first two games on our western Canada swing and was moved back up the line-up once we were in Vancouver. Then had a game primarily with Martin in Pitt.




Wasted time , founded 7 games where Nylander was listed gameday at 4th line at Leafs GDT, started 10 dec and goes back 8-10 games! You perhaps also now that Willy had 4th line time with polak also. It ended when Auston got injured,

 

[93LEAFS]

Great, that's just the GDT, back check them with Natural Stat trick. The only games are @Calgary, @Edmonton, @Pitt.

And 4th line minutes with Polak? A defender. I guess everytime McDavid plays with your bottom pairing defender its 4 line minutes.........

 

[93LEAFS]

1	Auston Matthews (C)	USA	Toronto Maple Leafs	ZSC Lions (NLA)
2	Patrik Laine (HF)	Finland	Winnipeg Jets	Tappara (Liiga)
3	Pierre-Luc Dubois (VF)	Kanada	Columbus Blue Jackets	Cape Breton Screaming Eagles(LHJMQ)
4	Jesse Puljujärvi (HF)	Finland	Edmonton Oilers	Oulun Kärpät (Liiga)
5	Olli Juolevi (B)	Finland	Vancouver Canucks	London Knights (OHL)
6	Matthew Tkachuk (VF)	USA	Calgary Flames	London Knights (OHL)
7	Clayton Keller (C)	USA	Arizona Coyotes	USA Hockey National Team Development Program
8	Alexander Nylander (VF)	Sverige	Buffalo Sabres	Mississauga Steelheads (OHL)

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1	Aaron Ekblad (B)	Kanada	Florida Panthers	Barrie Colts (OHL)
2	Sam Reinhart (C/HF)	Kanada	Buffalo Sabres	Kootenay Ice (WHL)
3	Leon Draisaitl (C/VF)	Tyskland Tyskland	Edmonton Oilers	Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
4	Sam Bennett (C/VF)	Kanada	Calgary Flames	Kingston Frontenacs (OHL)
5	Michael Dal Colle (C)	Kanada	New York Islanders	Oshawa Generals (OHL)
6	Jake Virtanen (HF/C)	Kanada	Vancouver Canucks	Calgary Hitmen (WHL)
7	Haydn Fleury (B)	Kanada	Carolina Hurricanes	Red Deer Rebels (WHL)
8	William Nylander Altelius(C/HF)	Sverige

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ridicolous, there are no numbers to claim 60-40! Your examples of links is no evidence only cherrypicking!

As you can see,both went 8 and Alex did it in a much harder draft!(but perhaps you see it different) Thats a hint how the scouts saw it, not some random writer/blogger. People looks so blindly where they are now and forget that talents get injurys and take different paths. But here we speak about talent to succeed in the Nhl before we have the answers, Alex only 19 and only played 15 games in the Ahl this season because of injurys.

Saw that you didnt mention the false claim that i dislike Willy and Alex, such lies is low level of discussion!
Ive seen Nylander start at 4th line 4-5 games, not need to waste any time to prove it. Both him and Marner got demoted because Babcock wasnt happy with their performances,that the truth, so take it and get over it.

That they both struggling to score isnt any secret, read the sheets, 7 and 4 goals almost half season gone! Willy has spent about 50% time with Matthews Ev strenght, Babcock has tried have him going for a while in different lines, hopefully he has turned around a hard 2 half season.

I mentioned you dislike the Leafs. Which you do, considering you just started by calling me a homer, and have called us the most biased fanbase in the league.

Again, actually back check your statements. GDT aren't proof.

The quote I posted was from Gare Joyce who probably has the most access to NHL scouts outside of Bob McKenzie with quotes from NHL scouts. It wasn't some random blogger. That wasn't Joyce's opinion, that was a direct quote from an NHL scout.

 

[clevelandcane]

View media item 1047View media item 1045View media item 1043I saw Team Sweden leaving the building after the game. Skates and helmets on just walking to the hotel or wherever they go. Pretty cool

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

View media item 1047View media item 1045View media item 1043I saw Team Sweden leaving the building after the game. Skates and helmets on just walking to the hotel or wherever they go. Pretty cool

Don't see any pics.

 

[firstemperor]

He's not kidding which is funny. However, Liljegren had some really nice hits and flashed but Dahlin just looked head and shoulders the best player on the ice to my eyes.

I think the tools and skating he showed were there, particularly because his skating size and stature at his size is so unique. But he wasn't the best player on the ice tonight. It was definitely Zadina if we're talking pure impact. However, he (Dahlin) was the best prospect on the ice tonight.

Though Liljegren was to me, the 2nd best d-man tonight. People have a bone to pick with him, he had a number of nice entries into the zone and was sound defensively all game, had about ~2-3 open-ice hits. Though his presence out there was noticeable, but still a bit underwhelming in terms of being more dynamic in open-ice as I've seen him play far better. Hopefully, he's just a slow starter as per usual.

 

[McClelland]

I mentioned you dislike the Leafs. Which you do, considering you just started by calling me a homer, and have called us the most biased fanbase in the league.

Again, actually back check your statements. GDT aren't proof.

The quote I posted was from Gare Joyce who probably has the most access to NHL scouts outside of Bob McKenzie with quotes from NHL scouts. It wasn't some random blogger. That wasn't Joyce's opinion, that was a direct quote from an NHL scout.

William Nylander

Matt Martin

Dominic Moore

28

26:25

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

William Nylander

Matt Martin

w/o Dominic Moore

36

7:04

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

William Nylander

w/o Matt Martin

Dominic Moore

29

6:25

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Thats 40 min and they have started as a 4th line 4 times(confirmed) Daily Faceoff – Starting Goalies, Line Combinations, Hockey News, Scores, Schedule

10 min a game ev. strenght thats seems correct for a 4th line. Then you must understand that Nylander plays pp and Moore pk so the shifts they make together depends how much pp, pk there are in the game. Your a couple of shifts together to lately 2 games isnt correct.

You said that i dislike the Nylanders which are totally false! Ive always thought willy gonna be a good Nhl player as you forget to mention because you have lurking in my posts!

Yes i think that Leafs fanbase are the most biased one, i also said that a such a big fanbase of course has more biased fans. Its painful to visit the mainboard when Leaf fans make every thread to a Leaf thread. I dont hate the Leafs players or the team im only fed up with biased fans who also invades our Oil board and trolling like after our 2 meetings lately , that happens rarely from other fan bases.

I called you a homer because Willy are a Leafs and you tried to falsely have him a better prospect then a non Leafs player. They both was drafted at 8 but Alex in a tougher draft. So your opinion is not based on facts. I heard and read in sweden that Alex could end up be the better brother because skill wisely its a wash but Alex game style were more suited for Na hockey. Thats also not evidence, the important thing is were they where taken in the draft. But scout misses out a lot too as we can see afterwards but its a non biased verdict at least.

We will wait and see who turns up to be the better player, Willy has coming further for now but Alex can explode anytime if injurys doesnt slow him down. Perhaps it will help if linked to a franchise C (Eichel)and Buffalo as a team has long way to go. Babcock perhaps wants Willy to develop his own game and leading a line him self, a great player make other good, its not only these 4 games hes been away from Matthews and 1st line.

Im done here!