WC: 2018 - Team Czech Republic

[Wooren]

Safe to say the youngsters didn't dissapoint. Zadina and Chytil showed elite skills, Kaut continues with his amazing all-around game.

 

[Voodoozz]

Who stood out for the Czechs?

Francouz would be the most obvious pick imo, after that fluke shot he let in in the 1st he was absolutely stellar in net.

All the youngsters played very well, i loved that Zadina-Chytil-Jaškin line, they were great especially in the 1st period. Kubalík looked really good too, his defensive game has improved since the past tournaments. The rest of our forwards were all fine imo.

The D looked messy and lost at times but that comes with youth i guess, Sklenička stood out in terms of supporting offense. I really hope we can get some NHL defensemen because we desperately need some more experience in there.

 

[Wooren]

As for others, I like Stastny a lot (who the hell is this guy? lol) and Kubalik finally had a decent game on the national scene.
David Sklenicka will start getting NHL attention sooner than later.

 

[Maluk11]

Safe to say the youngsters didn't dissapoint. Zadina and Chytil showed elite skills, Kaut continues with his amazing all-around game.

Kaut continue to impress me. He has ligitimate chance to be at WHC now. I also like his shot from blueline, Jaškin score goal today thanks to that.

 

[Czechboy]

Just saw the replays and highlights.. Francouz looked really good. That is the best I've ever seen Jaskin look. It was really nice to see who was on the ice for the tying goal - Zadina, Kaut, Jaskin and I'm pretty sure Chytil. Nice to here Kubalik is playing better... he's one I always hear about but when I see him play I don't see that much. He might be on his way to LA next season as well. Sklenicka.. hope you're right. We need D badly in NHL.. right now we have Gudas and Rutta with NHL contracts for next season.... that is it!

 

[SoundAndFury]

I see a wide margin on NHL goalies on that list. If I changed my statement to the last 7 years would that be more accurate? What if I said last 5? I'm sure there are more examples but how many of those non NHL goalies on those lists were the starters? Definition of 'few' would be 3... are there 4 starters with Gold or silver medals?

Your arguments are extremely flimsy. Obviously best countries have NHL goalies. If Canada wins there is next to no chance it won't be an NHL goalie winning it even though they would might as well win with ECHL goalie in the net at times. And best goalies do play in the NHL. So again, obviously that list will feature mostly guys from the NHL.

At the end of the day, you said you can't win without NHL goalie and that simply isn't the case. The goalies I named won in the last 8 years. So 3 out of 8 isn't bad, is it. And sure we can look for numbers supporting both arguments but you need a good goalie to win, not an NHL one. However, as it happens, a lot of good goalies do play in the NHL.

 

[Czechboy]

Your arguments are extremely flimsy. Obviously best countries have NHL goalies. If Canada wins there is next to no chance it won't be an NHL goalie winning it even though they would might as well win with ECHL goalie in the net at times. And best goalies do play in the NHL. So again, obviously that list will feature mostly guys from the NHL.

At the end of the day, you said you can't win without NHL goalie and that simply isn't the case. The goalies I named won in the last 8 years. So 3 out of 8 isn't bad, is it. And sure we can look for numbers supporting both arguments but you need a good goalie to win, not an NHL one. However, as it happens, a lot of good goalies do play in the NHL.

I'm not sure if you read my reply?

I said: If I changed my statement to the last 7 years would that be more accurate?

Can you please name me all the winning goalies in the last 7 years? I've already attached a list of all the goalies. Maybe we differ on 'winning'?

Once you're done please help me understand '3 out of 8'... are you saying 3 out of 8 goalies won gold medals in the last 8 years that weren't NHL goalies? Or are you saying a medal.. because then it would have to be out of 24 as there are 3 medals every year? Or just silver and gold which would be out of 16?

As far as the rest:

Your arguments are extremely flimsy. Obviously best countries have NHL goalies. If Canada wins there is next to no chance it won't be an NHL goalie winning it even though they would might as well win with ECHL goalie in the net at times. And best goalies do play in the NHL. So again, obviously that list will feature mostly guys from the NHL.

I honestly feel like you are arguing my point here.. other than insulting me which really wasn't necessary at all.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yes, I did read your reply and replied to it. You asked about changing to last 7 years, I asked how is that relevant, we can both change some measures to fit our points more or less. It doesn't matter. You can take 10 years, or 5 years or 3 years. Point is there are European goalies who won it and surely the number of NHL goalies will be higher because that's just obvious that best players play in the NHL and best players win a lot of games.

And obviously, I was talking about gold medals which was my bad since Koskinen won silver.

Again, my point is that you can win with a Euro goalie. I'm not debating that you are more likely to win with an NHL one because obviously, they are mostly better. Yet there are guys like Vehanen who was a beast and probably didn't play in the NHL by his own choice. In a way that's what Francouz's situation is at the moment.

P.S. If you feel I insulted you I apologize but damn that's not how insulting works on the internet

 

[Czechboy]

Yes, I did read your reply and replied to it. You asked about changing to last 7 years, I asked how is that relevant, we can both change some measures to fit our points more or less. It doesn't matter. You can take 10 years, or 5 years or 3 years. Point is there are European goalies who won it and surely the number of NHL goalies will be higher because that's just obvious that best players play in the NHL and best players win a lot of games.

And obviously, I was talking about gold medals which was my bad since Koskinen won silver.

Again, my point is that you can win with a Euro goalie. I'm not debating that you are more likely to win with an NHL one because obviously, they are mostly better. Yet there are guys like Vehanen who was a beast and probably didn't play in the NHL by his own choice. In a way that's what Francouz's situation is at the moment.

P.S. If you feel I insulted you I apologize but damn that's not how insulting works on the internet

Just quickly, who are the 3 goalies that have won golds in the last 8 years?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Just quickly, who are the 3 goalies that have won golds in the last 8 years?

Like I said, I messed up. I looked at the list of "best goalies of the tournament" and in my mind, it was equal to winning gold. Goalies I had in mind were Fasth, Vehanen and Koskinen. Still, that doesn't really change the point.

 

[Czechboy]

Like I said, I messed up. I looked at the list of "best goalies of the tournament" and in my mind, it was equal to winning gold. Goalies I had in mind were Fasth, Vehanen and Koskinen. Still, that doesn't really change the point.

Just so we're clear... Koskinen won Silver not gold... so that is one goalie in the last decade from Europe with a gold medal...

Here is the silver list again:
Elite Prospects - Award - World Championship Silver Medal

1 in 10 years. And I'm too lazy to figure out which Russian was in net for their back to back golds because there are some NHL names amongst the goalies there too. It could legit be 1 in 15 if I get real nerdy about it.lol

So 3 out of 8 isn't bad, is it.

1 in 10 is 10 percent... 3 in 8 is 37.5 percent. If non NHL goalies were winning golds 38% of the time, then my argument would be extremely flimsy. I wouldn't make that argument if that were the case.

 

[Czechboy]

I can't speak to Vehanen... truth be told, don't know much about the guy. He was never drafted and spend his final years playing in Germany and, ironically, Praha. I'm a Czech fanatic not a Finnish one. I can speak to Francouz and he's made it quite clear in the media (last week) that he wants to try the NHL. I'm guessing he'll be in the AHL to start next season like Mazanec, Rittich and Machovsky did to start. I don't disagree with the argument that there are not 64 guys better than him in the world and am quite the fan of his game. But I cannot recall the last goalie that transitioned from European starter to NHL starter. Again, I'm sure there were a few but who are they and when did this happen?

As far as the point.. my original point was that the Czechs tend to value Extraliga and KHL stats over NHL stats. So if they have 3 goalies... NHL goalie at .910, KHL goalie at .930 and Extraliga at .930.. the NHLer is sitting. This drives me crazy.. examples would be starting Salak at Olympics, the Stepanek years, Francouz over Mrazek, Hnilicka over Vokoun in semi's. It's a consistent theme. I can't think of one time that it has worked for the Czechs.

The Heskinen example above is a beautiful example of it working for the Finns as he got the start over a sensational rookie and a very good veteran at the time. Otherwise, anytime we have an NHLer and a non NHLer in a elimination game, I'd like it to be the NHLer on the ice. This doesn't always happen in Czech hockey.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yeah, Vehanen was a late bloomer but his KHL years were very impressive as was that championship win for Finland. His team is in DEL finals even though he's 40, just shows the kind of goalie he is. His a career trajectory is weird though, no debating that. He went from being KHL star to Lukko for no apparent reason. And signed in DEL for no apparent reason other than playing in Berlin.

Anyway, KHL stats as such are bogus, they don't mean much but there are quite a few goalies in the KHL I'd rather have in goal than Pavelec, for example. Who is somehow in the 10th year of his NHL career. So that's my point, you need a good goalie to win and there is like 50 in the NHL but maybe 10 in Europe as well. Just the league person plays in doesn't tell the full story.

Regarding goalies who transitioned from Europe to NHL, there is this Lundqvist guy, for example. Bobrovsky is more recent one. But they both have Vezinas so sure, you need to be pretty good to do that.

 

[Czechboy]

Yeah, Vehanen was a late bloomer but his KHL years were very impressive as was that championship win for Finland. His team is in DEL finals even though he's 40, just shows the kind of goalie he is. His a career trajectory is weird though, no debating that. He went from being KHL star to Lukko for no apparent reason. And signed in DEL for no apparent reason other than playing in Berlin.

Anyway, KHL stats as such are bogus, they don't mean much but there are quite a few goalies in the KHL I'd rather have in goal than Pavelec, for example. Who is somehow in the 10th year of his NHL career. So that's my point, you need a good goalie to win and there is like 50 in the NHL but maybe 10 in Europe as well. Just the league person plays in doesn't tell the full story.

Regarding goalies who transitioned from Europe to NHL, there is this Lundqvist guy, for example. Bobrovsky is more recent one. But they both have Vezinas so sure, you need to be pretty good to do that.

Lundqvist is a great example. He did that in 2004. Bobrovsky is another great example, he did that in 2010. I'm sure there are more recent guys (no, I can't think of any) but coming from Europe and becoming a succesful starter in the NHL is near impossible today. The reverse is pretty common.. guys that couldn't quite crack the NHL can go to Europe and be successful. Scrivens and Rammo come to mind. I'll still always take an average NHL goalie over an elite one in Europe.

 

[Maluk11]

Ondřej Kaše is not coming. Anaheim didn't recommended it.

 

[Maluk11]

Also Line-up for tommorow
Furch
Hrbas - Pyrochta, Červenka - Horák - Šťastný
Klok - Pláněk, Jaškin - Chytil - Zadina
Pavelka - Pavlík, Stránský - Hanzl - Nestrašil
Moravčík - Galvas, Kousal - Chlapík - Kaut

 

[Czechboy]

Ondřej Kaše is not coming. Anaheim didn't recommended it.

I'm not saying Ondrej Kase specifically but do you ever wonder if the players make this up? It seems to me that every year Washington loses that the next morning their Russian stars are flying on a plane to the World Championships within hours of being eliminated. Other teams announce their NHL reinforcements much quicker, eg. Sweden already had 10 guys lined up before I ever heard about Chytil and Chlapik (our first 2 to my knowledge). I feel like, every year, there is this same 'would love to represent but team won't let him' line and I'm starting to question it. For instance, Pastrnak was RFA last year and he came with no contract (and he was signing a big one). Jaskin is RFA and he's here. Kempny had no contract and came. I just feel like the NHL Czechs are very reluctant to come over. Obviously not all of them. Plekanec always came the next day too (yet other guys need a week and then a refusal of some sort). Again, this isn't about Kase specifically - but, if Anaheim would've made it to the Stanley Cup finals he would still be playing hockey in June yet he isn't healthy enough to go to a tournament? Is it just me?

 

[Maluk11]

I'm not saying Ondrej Kase specifically but do you ever wonder if the players make this up? It seems to me that every year Washington loses that the next morning their Russian stars are flying on a plane to the World Championships within hours of being eliminated. Other teams announce their NHL reinforcements much quicker, eg. Sweden already had 10 guys lined up before I ever heard about Chytil and Chlapik (our first 2 to my knowledge). I feel like, every year, there is this same 'would love to represent but team won't let him' line and I'm starting to question it. For instance, Pastrnak was RFA last year and he came with no contract (and he was signing a big one). Jaskin is RFA and he's here. Kempny had no contract and came. I just feel like the NHL Czechs are very reluctant to come over. Obviously not all of them. Plekanec always came the next day too (yet other guys need a week and then a refusal of some sort). Again, this isn't about Kase specifically - but, if Anaheim would've made it to the Stanley Cup finals he would still be playing hockey in June yet he isn't healthy enough to go to a tournament? Is it just me?

I didn't believe players make it up. I think all of them (or majority) want come, but they have problems of their own, families and other things to take care of. It's more about their position, Voráček always came, because he don't need to take of contracts things and else, same with Ovechkin for Russia. But Rutta and Kaše are almost rookies in NHL, naturally they don't have the position like Voráček. There are some expection like Kempný or Jaškin, which I am glad and appreciate them, but that's just exception that proves the rule.

And it's same everywhere, Sweden has 10 players, but another 10 also declined, like here. Canada is the same, who knows how many players declined there, they just have lot more players then we. We have 30 players, so it's more noticeable when someone decline.

Also Kaše must play in June with Anaheim, because he have contract there, you don't say to your employer, who paying you millions, that you are too tired to play SC final and you just take the cup when they win. It's his job, like Financial Advisors did their job, hockey players did their. While National Team is voluntary and when you don't have contract or your employer did not wish it, it's hard decision.

Saying it, I really appreciate players like Plekanec, Pastrňák and others, but they are normal people, with their own problems.

 

[Jablkon]

I'm not saying Ondrej Kase specifically but do you ever wonder if the players make this up? It seems to me that every year Washington loses that the next morning their Russian stars are flying on a plane to the World Championships within hours of being eliminated. Other teams announce their NHL reinforcements much quicker, eg. Sweden already had 10 guys lined up before I ever heard about Chytil and Chlapik (our first 2 to my knowledge). I feel like, every year, there is this same 'would love to represent but team won't let him' line and I'm starting to question it. For instance, Pastrnak was RFA last year and he came with no contract (and he was signing a big one). Jaskin is RFA and he's here. Kempny had no contract and came. I just feel like the NHL Czechs are very reluctant to come over. Obviously not all of them. Plekanec always came the next day too (yet other guys need a week and then a refusal of some sort). Again, this isn't about Kase specifically - but, if Anaheim would've made it to the Stanley Cup finals he would still be playing hockey in June yet he isn't healthy enough to go to a tournament? Is it just me?

Its just you. He is rookie and club didnt want him to go. There are only few czechs in NHL, sure especially guys like Sustr are probably not that enthusiastic to go when they f***ed with them in youth. Same would go for lot of people from that weak junior teams. But luckilly they still comming. The way how you are treated influences your attitude + fammilly etc. So there is no issue so far but national team needs to keep high standart. There will be hopefully bigger competition for spots in future and some guys gained NHL contracts through WHC so they comming back too. Swedes have 90 guys there and they dont care much about WHC so its bit of different

 

[Czechboy]

Its just you. He is rookie and club didnt want him to go. There are only few czechs in NHL, sure especially guys like Sustr are probably not that enthusiastic to go when they ****ed with them in youth. Same would go for lot of people from that weak junior teams. But luckilly they still comming. The way how you are treated influences your attitude + fammilly etc. So there is no issue so far but national team needs to keep high standart. There will be hopefully bigger competition for spots in future and some guys gained NHL contracts through WHC so they comming back too. Swedes have 90 guys there and they dont care much about WHC so its bit of different

What did they do to Sustr? I didn't realize Sweden had that many players... good for them. They're at 88 and rising and we're at 32 and declining...

 

[Jablkon]

What did they do to Sustr? I didn't realize Sweden had that many players... good for them. They're at 88 and rising and we're at 32 and declining...

I dont know exactly but its generally known that Sustr, Palat, Gudas, even Mrazek, had to undergo tough journey to NHL with no help from clubs (often exactly opposite). You remember hassels with nominations to WJs? Corruptions? There was a lot of it. And it can easily come back. Its rumoured that Jaskin had to go Beroun for “Palascak” reason etc. Corruption and protectionism was all over czech hockey.

 

[Jablkon]

So far how I see forwards. I dont try Ds- thats too much for me
Locks:
Faksa,Repik,Cervenka,Nestrasil,Hanzl(stop overpassing),Jaskin,Horak

Close to nomination as follows: Stransky, Kaut, Stastny,Frk,Tomasek

What do you think? I watched just second and third period today...

 

[Czechboy]

So far how I see forwards. I dont try Ds- thats too much for me
Locks:
Faksa,Repik,Cervenka,Nestrasil,Hanzl(stop overpassing),Jaskin,Horak

Close to nomination as follows: Stransky, Kaut, Stastny,Frk,Tomasek

What do you think? I watched just second and third period today...

Happy to see Nestrasil up there... I felt he just had bad luck to leave the NHL. Every team and fanbase seemed to really like his work ethic and attitude. Hope Hanzl makes it too.

You are probably right about your 'close to nominations' and much closer to the coaches thinking, but I'm hoping for Zadina, Necas, Kaut in there... I'd rather see future NHL Czechs in there over guys that couldn't make the NHL (Stansky) or never will (Stastny). I realize they are probably playing better than the young guys but we might not get a chance to see Zadina, Necas, Kaut or Chytil on the national team for a long time. Those 4 strike me as future NHLers... not sold on Chlapik just yet. Took a pretty dumb penalty today.

As far as the D.. no matter how you mix them, they are going to be weak. Even Gudas wouldn't make it that much better compared to what the top teams will have. I don't have a strong preference for that group at all. They're all pretty equal in my eyes.

Goalies... I realize I'm in the minority here but Neuvirth spend his night playing against the 2 time Stanley Cup Champions and stopping guys like Crosby and Malkin. He's signed for one more year and is currently not injured and will be playing again tomorrow afternoon. Taking KHL guys over him, to me, is just not logical at all. If we have an NHL stopper, we should use him as the final 4 will be NHL calibre teams. Yes, I realize I'm alone in this.lol

 

[Maluk11]

Today game vs Sweden. Hanzl very good game, he should be lock for WHC. Jaškin-Chytil-Zadina with good game, I would say even better then yesterday. So far our six win in camp, we could win whole EHCH, same with CHG. Also we continue to have good PP, we score 15 goals from our 25 in EHT there.

Czech Republic vs Sweden 3-1
Goals: 4. Hanzl (Pyrochta, Nestrašil), 50. Nestrašil (Hanzl, Moravčík), 58. Horák (Červenka, Šťastný) - 15. Klinberg (Rödin)

Line-up
Furch (Francouz) – Pyrochta, Hrbas, Pláněk, Klok, F. Pavlík, T. Pavelka, J. Galvas, Moravčík – Šťastný, Horák (A), Červenka (C) – Zadina, Chytil, Jaškin – Nestrašil, R. Hanzl (A), Stránský – M. Kaut, Chlapík, R. Kousal – Orsava

 

[Maluk11]

So far how I see forwards. I dont try Ds- thats too much for me
Locks:
Faksa,Repik,Cervenka,Nestrasil,Hanzl(stop overpassing),Jaskin,Horak

Close to nomination as follows: Stransky, Kaut, Stastny,Frk,Tomasek

What do you think? I watched just second and third period today...

I agree. It's likely as you write. I would only add Nečas and Kubalík.

About Defensemen I think Jordán is lock. Mozík, Polášek and Vitásek should make it, if they are healty enough. Rest will fight for it.

And from goaltenders Francouz is lock. Then I think Furch and Rittich will make it ahead of Bartošák. We will see about Neuvirth, Philadelphia can still defeat Pittsburgh.