Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part VII

[redwhiteandblue]

It does, but it's all we have now. We don't have any other reports and his parents aren't saying anything either

I appreciate you not dogging the kid and having more behind the scenes knowledge on the issue, but you’re looking at this through rose colored lenses. I was 21 and I got lucky enough to have a Cup of coffee overseas in Turkey of all places, and had a very gritty situation happen while I was there. Life is tough but you adapt.

I can understand a bit him wanting to be home because he’s young. To me, if it was going to be so debilitating, then he, his family, and the team would have all been aware to wait another year if it was just maturity. It really seems more and more like this is a typical young generation-whatever who had a tough go, had bad influences from his family, has been handed too much his whole life because he he’s naturally talented and now is facing adversity and handling it poorly.

He needs to step up and take control of this situation as a young 18 year old man. At some point you handle life before it handles you... the conditioning stint seems like some of the most routine lip service I’ve seen in a while. Suggesting he lost his legs and was so far behind the 8 ball after being on the ice for 2 months is something I’m not buying.

He needs to step up and do what’s best for his career right now and I think everyone can agree that playing in the VHL and sinking like a stone in your organizations eyes is not that.

I’m sure there is more to it, again I appreciate you’ve gotten close to the family and are a bit more understanding. It’s hard to deny though that VK has made this situation increasingly more difficult for whatever reasons/influences.

 

[UnSandvich]

Just pointing something out here, I'm pretty sure i've seen multiple interviews stating that conditioning and the training is even harsher in the KHL than it is here. So if you couple that with the layoff Kravtsov had, then struggling to adapt to different coaching system, etc. etc. I think it could explain a lot

 

[Edge]

In preseason I remember him scoring a tap in goal, turning the puck over and looking weak, and recording something alarming like four shots in four games or whatever. I mean there were definitely glimpses there, but if the guy's name was Vince Kauffman, third round pick who just finished his junior career in North Bay, no one would have been talking about him making the club based off of his play.

I think the basic takeaway point was that he was in contention, even if most agree he wasn't ready, and that we're not that far removed from hope and optimism surrounding him.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I’ve heard a lot about it too and take that into consideration, but at what point does being 19 and a supposed elite level player of your age group shine over the rest?

I was just talking with a buddy I grew up playing with about how much easier the game was when we were 18-20 and how explosive we were. It’s tough, yes, but I’d expect a 19 year old 9th overall pick to handle it pretty well.

The whole thing has taken an interesting turn of events. Seems to me his best course of action is getting back to Hartford and learning to acclimate and hitting the reset button. If you need some help that bad then put the Rangers on notice and make them help but sheesh this has gotten out of hand for a 9th overall pick just a year ago.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Again, the Rangers did nothing wrong. His game sucked. Period. He's lazy. He doesn't work hard defensively. He floats around the ice. He's physically weak for his size. He needed to shut his mouth, do what he was told by the AHL coach and learn how to play NHL style hockey. Instead, he thought he was a a star when he was crap. Chytil accomplished 10 times more as a rookie than this clown did in the pre-season and took his demotion this year like a man, worked his butt off and is now a regular on the team.

When I look at Crapsov I see Nichushkin part 2. Rangers would be very wise to move on from this kid now while he still has value.

It's official! We have our first non-ironic use of a version of Kraptsov!

Show him what he's won, Johnny.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I appreciate you not dogging the kid and having more behind the scenes knowledge on the issue, but you’re looking at this through rose colored lenses. I was 21 and I got lucky enough to have a Cup of coffee overseas in Turkey of all places, and had a very gritty situation happen while I was there. Life is tough but you adapt..

I will comment on this. I moved to South Africa when I was in my early 20s. It was rough. Especially when things weren't going my way. Not everyone has the mentality to just "get over it" and adept. It all depends on how you were brought up, what you have experienced etc. I remember going back to the Netherlands 3 years later and suffering a severe depression because I felt like I failed. I had come back to my hometown with this experience that should have been great and was expected to bring me the baggage to get ahead in life, but instead of turned into a failed experiment and I struggled to deal with the consequences of that. Facing my friends and family and having to admit I didn't succeed.

When things go your way, it's a lot easier to "keep up" because the rush of adrenaline makes you just go with the flow. When things aren't going your way, it's a lot harder to stay focused, keep up with the daily routine and stick to what you know is best. Everyone, especially kids, need positive reinforcement. If that's lacking, it's a dangerous slope

I will never judge a professional athlete on mental ability to deal with adversity. I am now 35 and a completely different person but at age 21, I really did not handle my situation the way I should have. I wish there was someone to support me. I am not saying Kravtsov is dealing with the same, but his situation has some similarities and IF this is the case, I can certainly understand. As a Rangers fan, I want him to "get over it" and start performing. But as a person, I realize it's not always that easy.

If the coach says it's a conditioning issue, I have no reason to think otherwise. I really do not want another "Zibanejad has a concussion, book it" debate. The conditioning can be caused by other factors though. Mental issues are at the very least a possible contributor to this. I don't know how he will deal with this but he is a teenager (turning 20 in 2 weeks) and expecting a teenager to just adept is short-sighted in my opinion.

What it comes down to for me is this:

- He came over oozing confidence
- Had a good camp
- Had some good moments in pre season
- Was sent down and didn't react the way we wanted
- Decided to go back to Russia which was within his rights with the EAC
- Didn't live up to expectations back in the KHL
- Now sent down to the VHL to work on his conditioning

I expected more from him, and have issues with certain things he has done off the ice. But I don't think it's as grimm as some make it out to be. It has been a rough month for him and now he has to show he can recover and come back stronger.

 

[kovazub94]

I don't understand the conditioning aspect. He was here working out early. He played TC. He did camp with us. He played the exhibition games. He started in Hartford. I know KHL camps are KILLER apparently, but it's not like he was slumming around. He was probably more active and engaged than most of our players, so conditioning shouldn't really be an issue unless he wasn't actually working hard. I can understand needing to adapt to a system but if after all the training he did before the season he's still out of shape, at 19 no less, that's concerning.

@Amazing Kreiderman , same as above. He should not be out due to conditioning based on all of the above in @nyr2k2 post. To me it’s another symptom of what’s happening in his head.

 

[Edge]

Sometimes in our efforts to evaluate the player, we really get way too caught up in judging the person.

And a lot of people doing the judging would chaff at the same approach being taken with them, to say nothing about facing some of scenarios we're psychoanalyzing. It's a lot easier to look at things from the outside and solve everyone else's problems but our own.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Buchnevich had the same conditioning problems early on, it's just that russian players dont put as much focus on being in game shape and nutrition as north Americans do. It's likely why Panarin was never drafted either but he gets in shape and is off for the races. Kravtsov needs to get to north america asap and get his career on track.

 

[Raspewtin]

Buchnevich had the same conditioning problems early on, it's just that russian players dont put as much focus on being in game shape and nutrition as north Americans do. It's likely why Panarin was never drafted either but he gets in shape and is off for the races. Kravtsov needs to get to north america asap and get his career on track.

what absolute horse shit lol

KHL training and conditioning is notoriously brutal

 

[Kovalev27]

Maybe they (traktor) see him not working hard and think it’s conditioning. That he’s tired when the NYR org evaluated, by his BP that It was more he just wasn’t putting in the effort. Maybe it’s one in the same

This kid dogging it because he didn’t get what he wanted when he got cut and was sent to Hartford now is in a nose dive he’s having a hard time pulling out of seems a lot more likely than not.

 

[Ola]

Buchnevich had the same conditioning problems early on, it's just that russian players dont put as much focus on being in game shape and nutrition as north Americans do. It's likely why Panarin was never drafted either but he gets in shape and is off for the races. Kravtsov needs to get to north america asap and get his career on track.

Nah, this is not really the case. We called out Howden for the exact same reason. Lias. Lemieux.

Some guys grow late and it takes time to build up that physic.

Go back 5 years and I don't think NHL players are in any better shape on average than the KHL/SHL/Liiga etc. Right now though my understanding is that some NHL players are taking the "slimming down" part a step further than what European players do. More extreme nutrition. But the difference isn't big.

Russians have ALWAYS been real gym rats and are if anything famous for tree trunk legs more than bad physic. If we go back 15 years many of the best skating Ds in the NHL were Russians. Malakhov, Zhitnik, Kaspar, Yushkevich, Markov, Volchenkov, Ulanov, Gusarov and co -- like that entire generation all had really really strong lower bodies, moved with a really low center of gravity and certainly stood out for it. I've seen training programs from Russian hockey programs with an insane amount of squat reps. One summer when I played we had a strength coach that applied one program. It was 100% squats for over an hour 4-5 times per week, it was insane. But I went from taking maybe 200 lbs to almost 400 lbs going down to 90 degrees over 4 months.

Now training methods are different, but KHL teams are certainly in really good shape overall.

 

[will1066]

what absolute horse **** lol

KHL training and conditioning is notoriously brutal

I feel an urge to post gifs of Ivan Drago training.

But I will abstain.

Remember Lindros' parents? And Lindros turned out pretty well.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Not skating for a week after skating for over a month doesn't mess with your conditioning at 19 years old. Sorry. Not to mention its been weeks since then and now he gets sent down. Doesnt seem like the greatest decision to go back to Russia now does it?

What's next? He comes back to the AHL and gets benched again for his lazy play?

Geeze this kid is screwing up his career, what a shame.

 

[The New Russian Five]

I’ve heard a lot about it too and take that into consideration, but at what point does being 19 and a supposed elite level player of your age group shine over the rest?

I was just talking with a buddy I grew up playing with about how much easier the game was when we were 18-20 and how explosive we were. It’s tough, yes, but I’d expect a 19 year old 9th overall pick to handle it pretty well.

The whole thing has taken an interesting turn of events. Seems to me his best course of action is getting back to Hartford and learning to acclimate and hitting the reset button. If you need some help that bad then put the Rangers on notice and make them help but sheesh this has gotten out of hand for a 9th overall pick just a year ago.

When you were 18-20 you were still playing college hockey and practicing every other day. Once I left college, all I did was play beer leagues. Funny how I suddenly lost a step after a year playing at that level.

 

[aufheben]

You’re probably correct since parents and agents are a big part of this process. I’m still of the opinion though that the closer Kravtsov is to the organization the better it is for him to develop considering recent events.

No doubt.

 

[will1066]

I feel an urge to post gifs of Ivan Drago training.

But I will abstain.

Remember Lindros' parents? And Lindros turned out pretty well.

Also, if the Russians bench and demote a Russian, is it still Russian bias?

 

[chosen]

Like everyone else, not sure how he'll turn out, but little doubt that the arrow is currently pointing down, and that's never good, especially at a time you would expect a high draft pick to be excelling.

 

[Inferno]

I call bs on conditioning.... Unless he was eating nothing but Doritos and doughnuts for those 10 days I don't see how his conditioning could go in the tank.

 

[kovazub94]

Someone mentioned that Kravtsov needs to look at Chytil for a good lesson on how things can work out if you follow on the instructions and buy into the program they give you, but I'd rather have Buchnevich to chat with Kravtsov. The things that Quinn was asking initially didn't "make sense" to Buch at first but he stuck with it (clenching his teeth, I'm sure, Captain Smilie) and, from his later interviews, eventually understood why these things were important and good for the team (and therefore his personal) success.

 

[nyr2k2]

Someone mentioned that Kravtsov needs to look at Chytil for a good lesson on how things can work out if you follow on the instructions and buy into the program they give you, but I'd rather have Buchnevich to chat with Kravtsov. The things that Quinn was asking initially didn't "make sense" to Buch at first but he stuck with it (clenching his teeth, I'm sure, Captain Smilie) and, from his later interviews, eventually understood why these things were important and good for the team (and therefore his personal) success.

Exactly. Buchnevich is hardly an "ideal" player, but he has responded well to coaching. I remember when he first got in Quinn's doghouse, I said on here I didn't think he'd respond well. It ended up he did respond well and played great down the stretch. He's definitely a success story. If VK could buy into what Quinn and the organization are preaching, he could still be a really great player.

 

[LORDE]

Come in here to see if there’s any update and get to read xenophobic bullshit.

Guess I’ll check back in a week or so...

 

[Synergy27]

I’m not going to judge VK on his mental health and resiliency at 19 years old, but, this is all quite bad and he doesn’t have a lot of time to get it straight. Unlike your typical aimless teenager who can be fine in a standard career if he doesn’t get his shit together until his mid twenties, an athlete with the goal of making an impact at the highest level doesn’t have that kind of time.

If VK doesn’t mature and get himself straightened out until he’s 21-22, it’ll probably be too late. Too much competition.

 

[Trxjw]

I think people might be confusing a lack of conditioning with a kid who was just struggling to adapt. Skating with men in the best league in the world, on the ice with teammates and opponents who don't speak your native language; it's all pretty overwhelming. When you're slow in processing the game you react slower. That can easily make it look like you're out of shape.

 

[serakk]

KRAVTSOV have to have DRIVE to become NHL player.
He needs to WORK his way from from VHL to KHL to AHL to NHL.

HE has to really understand nobody gives it to him based on being 9th pick.