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Prospect Info: 2018 NHL Draft / Pick #9 - Vitali Kravtsov (RW) - Part II

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I think when people talk about a player being lazy, they're generally referring to his play on the ice. It not usually about whether the player works outs, puts in a decent effort in practice, takes care of their body, etc. Obviously there are exceptions--Kessel is the easy example--but I think usually it's about how they play when they're out there. So when people talk about "So and so is a professional athlete, in great shape, he works super hard to stay that way, no way he's lazy," I think it's kind of missing the mark in the "laziness" discussion.

Now, you can still disagree that guys who are given the lazy label for their on-ice play are actually lazy, but I think that's the actual discussion. Not off-ice habits or anything (again, with exceptions).
 
nyr2k2 said:
I think when people talk about a player being lazy, they're generally referring to his play on the ice. It not usually about whether the player works outs, puts in a decent effort in practice, takes care of their body, etc. Obviously there are exceptions--Kessel is the easy example--but I think usually it's about how they play when they're out there. So when people talk about "So and so is a professional athlete, in great shape, he works super hard to stay that way, no way he's lazy," I think it's kind of missing the mark in the "laziness" discussion.

Now, you can still disagree that guys who are given the lazy label for their on-ice play are actually lazy, but I think that's the actual discussion. Not off-ice habits or anything (again, with exceptions).
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This.

Lazy is a word that (rightfully) draws a lot of ire. The question that people are posing with it is how consistently engaged the player is during his shifts.

I think Buchnevich could work on maintaining his "engagement" when playing away from the offensive zone, but being an offense-first guy, it's of most importance that he is fully engaged when he has an opportunity to create a scoring chance; and I would say that he most certainly is.
 
Harbour Dog said:
This.

Lazy is a word that (rightfully) draws a lot of ire. The question that people are posing with it is how consistently engaged the player is during his shifts.

I think Buchnevich could work on maintaining his "engagement" when playing away from the offensive zone, but being an offense-first guy, it's of most importance that he is fully engaged when he has an opportunity to create a scoring chance; and I would say that he most certainly is.
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I think of it as applied to football players. You have a big DL like Mo Wilkerson, for example. 6'4", 320, faster than the best kid on a high school sprint team. The dude is a physical specimen of ridiculous proportions, as are almost all NFL players. He accomplishes this by busting his ass in the weight room, following a particular diet, and just generally taking care of himself. But, last year when he was lacking motivation for various reasons, he would regularly appear to take plays off, give substandard effort, and just look generally lackadaisical. He was LAZY. He's not a lazy person in general (as people always note, if these guys were lazy they wouldn't reach the zenith of their sport) but he was lazy on the field last year. No other way of putting it. Lazy.

You hit the nail on the head with Buchnevich. He's not a lazy person. But he needs to be fully engaged. We end up having the Kovalev talk because the Kovalev guy calls Buchnevich lazy which is hilarious, but he does make a valid point--Buchnevich isn't as naturally talented as Kovalev, and he needs to remain consistently engaged to really be as effective as he can be. If he wants to float around and pick his spots, he can do that and still be a good player, but to be great he needs to be constantly in the mix. And if he's not regularly engaged, he'll be called lazy. Fair or not.
 
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nyr2k2 said:
I think when people talk about a player being lazy, they're generally referring to his play on the ice. It not usually about whether the player works outs, puts in a decent effort in practice, takes care of their body, etc. Obviously there are exceptions--Kessel is the easy example--but I think usually it's about how they play when they're out there. So when people talk about "So and so is a professional athlete, in great shape, he works super hard to stay that way, no way he's lazy," I think it's kind of missing the mark in the "laziness" discussion.

Now, you can still disagree that guys who are given the lazy label for their on-ice play are actually lazy, but I think that's the actual discussion. Not off-ice habits or anything (again, with exceptions).
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Even that I don't agree with. Just because a player isn't making full strides each shift, doesn't mean he's lazy or takes shifts off. Some players just pick their moments. And you could say that players who are always rushing, are just out of position too often
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Even that I don't agree with. Just because a player isn't making full strides each shift, doesn't mean he's lazy or takes shifts off. Some players just pick their moments. And you could say that players who are always rushing, are just out of position too often
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If you're trying to tell me that there aren't players out there who take shifts off, then I don't know, I guess there's nothing further to discuss because there's a fundamental difference between what you see and what I see.

As far as "rushing" and "being out of position," I'm not talking about Ryan f***ing Hollweg here. I'm talking about being appropriately engaged in the play, not just running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
 
nyr2k2 said:
If you're trying to tell me that there aren't players out there who take shifts off, then I don't know, I guess there's nothing further to discuss because there's a fundamental difference between what you see and what I see.

As far as "rushing" and "being out of position," I'm not talking about Ryan ****ing Hollweg here. I'm talking about being appropriately engaged in the play, not just running around like a chicken with its head cut off.
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Yes, and we both see it that way. But I feel others expect Buchnevich to skate around like Dorsett, or Carcillo. The whole "players with heart" argument.

Some players pick their moments more carefully, but I don't see that as lazy. Stepan is a center who has been accused of the same thing at times.
 
Amazing Kreiderman said:
Yes, and we both see it that way. But I feel others expect Buchnevich to skate around like Dorsett, or Carcillo. The whole "players with heart" argument.

Some players pick their moments more carefully, but I don't see that as lazy. Stepan is a center who has been accused of the same thing at times.
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Lazy and out of shape are two of the stupidest criticisms.

They may be relevant every now and then (Smith last year), but 99% of the time they aren't.
 
There had to have been something taken out of context with Traktor's coach. This whole scenario, especially with Kravtsov being captain, makes no sense.
 
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I Eat Crow said:
There had to have been something taken out of context with Traktor's coach. This whole scenario, especially with Kravtsov being captain, makes no sense.
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Or the Russian coach read the article and decided to boost Kravtsov's morale to see if he would play better.
But your scenario is more probable.
 
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