WJC: 2018 Groups

[Canada4Gold]

In a way it does affect, actually everything. If the balance of the group changes considerably, some are going to have it easier and some are going to have it harder, either the start of the tournament or the road to the final games (QFs mainly). However, if the groups are based on lottery or ranking or both, then that's it and no one has reasons to question "what if".

meh, not really when you think about it. If the 3 best teams in a group all get put in the same pool, then the 3rd best finishes 3rd then barring upsets you'd in theory face at best the 5th best team in the QF(which is possible under an even split), and the best team in the SF(which is possible under an even split). The 4th best team(in the other pool) will face at best the 5th best team(which is possible under an even split), and the 2nd best team in the SF(also possible under an even split).

With all top 4 teams in the same pool the 4th best team again barring upsets would face at best the 5th best team in the QF, and the 2nd best team in the SF, the 5th best team would face the 4th best, and if they get to the SF the 2nd best.

No matter how you lopside the pools it doesn't really affect the expected QF/SF, the best 4 teams will still be expected to win their QF, because a strong pool, in turn means a weak other pool to cross over with. See this year as a clear example. USA, Canada, Russia, Sweden were the top 4 teams, 3 in 1 pool, but because 3 in 1 pool left only 1 in the other Russia who came 3rd were still favorited in their QF against a weaker #2, not just because of upsets either, they likely would have been the favorite against any of the non Sweden teams from the other side.

The only real problem would be with the last place team. If you tossed the 5 best teams in 1 pool, or say 5 of the best 6 or 7 then 1 of better teams will be in the relegation side in favour of a weaker team from the other side making the QF, but this switch with Canada/USA in the same pool isn'y going to lopside the pools that much

 

[tsujimoto74]

Dude lets be real. Unless they pay people to go a USA Russia or USA Sweden outdoor game is going to have like 8000 people there.

Buffalo averaged nearly 11,000 in attendance when they hosted in 2011, or about 2,500 more people per game than Canada averaged this year. Outdoor game is gonna put butts in seats even if a lot of Canadians stay home.

 

[Xokkeu]

Buffalo averaged nearly 11,000 in attendance when they hosted in 2011, or about 2,500 more people per game than Canada averaged this year. Outdoor game is gonna put butts in seats even if a lot of Canadians stay home.

And the majority of those were Canadian fans. Canada Russia would sell more outdoor game tickets than USA Russia.

 

[Tuoppi]

In the senior championships they moved Russia to Finnish group because of getting Russian fans.

Games are hosted in Buffalo because of its proximity to Canada. Shoud Russia host the games in Vladivostok, Denmark in Greenland and France in Saint Pierre and Miquelon then?

 

[tsujimoto74]

And the majority of those were Canadian fans. Canada Russia would sell more outdoor game tickets than USA Russia.

You're grossly underestimating Buffalo as a hockey market. We're generally #3 in TV ratings in any given nationally televised game (behind the 2 markets playing) and #1-2 overall in TV ratings in the U.S. for a reason.

Buffalo's Winter Classic game against Pittsburgh in 2008 had 71,217 fans in attendance. All Canadians, tho, right?

 

[JackSlater]

You're grossly underestimating Buffalo as a hockey market. We're generally #3 in TV ratings in any given nationally televised game (behind the 2 markets playing) and #1-2 overall in TV ratings in the U.S. for a reason.

Buffalo's Winter Classic game against Pittsburgh in 2008 had 71,217 fans in attendance. All Canadians, tho, right?

I attended the 2011 tournament, specifically every game in (at the time) HSBC arena. He is completely correct. The vast majority of fans were Canadians. In the semi final game between Canada and USA it had to be at least 80% Canadians.

 

[Xokkeu]

You're grossly underestimating Buffalo as a hockey market. We're generally #3 in TV ratings in any given nationally televised game (behind the 2 markets playing) and #1-2 overall in TV ratings in the U.S. for a reason.

Buffalo's Winter Classic game against Pittsburgh in 2008 had 71,217 fans in attendance. All Canadians, tho, right?

The winter classic isn't a junior hockey game. This isn't trashing Buffalo. Nowhere in the US is going to fill a football stadium for the u20 team

 

[Xokkeu]

In the senior championships they moved Russia to Finnish group because of getting Russian fans.

Games are hosted in Buffalo because of its proximity to Canada. Shoud Russia host the games in Vladivostok, Denmark in Greenland and France in Saint Pierre and Miquelon then?

It's up to the hosts where they want to hold the tournament

 

[baronsforever]

So this is an actual rule? Anyone got a rulebook.pdf reference? At least there's that then, and not just something pulled out of a hat a la NHL & World Cup groups.

And this certainly wouldn't be the first time this supposed rule has been used. I remember at least once one team being moved to a group that was closer to its country border. This team may have been Men's tournmanet, team being Finland and the host Russia (groups in St Peterburg & Moscow or something).

I don't like this though.

Here is a pdf of the relevant rule book, http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Sport/Sport_Regulations_-_2017.pdf on page 4 it says:The IIHF Council shall have the option to amend the seeding with the agreement of the
majority of participating national associations to accommodate special requirements of an
organizer or for geographical considerations.
For the Men's it is even more specific: The organiser is entitled to allocate a maximum
of two teams to separate groups, which was done for the upcoming worlds (Canada was swapped with Russia) and in 2013 (Russia was swapped for Czech Republic)

 

[Past Considerations]

Here is a pdf of the relevant rule book, http://www.iihf.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PDF/Sport/Sport_Regulations_-_2017.pdf on page 4 it says:The IIHF Council shall have the option to amend the seeding with the agreement of the
majority of participating national associations to accommodate special requirements of an
organizer or for geographical considerations.
For the Men's it is even more specific: The organiser is entitled to allocate a maximum
of two teams to separate groups, which was done for the upcoming worlds (Canada was swapped with Russia) and in 2013 (Russia was swapped for Czech Republic)

Thanks.

 

[jason2020]

Buffalo averaged nearly 11,000 in attendance when they hosted in 2011, or about 2,500 more people per game than Canada averaged this year. Outdoor game is gonna put butts in seats even if a lot of Canadians stay home.

Take the Canadian ticket holders out and that's more around 8500 on the avg.