2018-19 Roster Speculation Pt. 3: Started from the bottom now we're here

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joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Offensive line 1 — Skinner/Jack/Pommer or Erod
Defensive line 1—-Sobotka/Sam/Thompson
Offensive line 2 — Sheary/Mitts/Okposo
Defensive line 2 — Berglund/Larsson/Girgs
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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If we are going to debate who belongs where we need to identify the lines by their usage. We have two offensive lines with usage skewed that way centered by Eichel/Mitts. We have two defensive lines with usage skewed that way centered by Sobotka (Erod)/Larsson. Eichel line usually gets the most minutes followed by the Sobotka line then Mitts then Larsson lines. Though some nights Larsson’s line has surpassed Mitts line. In that context criticizing Sam on the perceived“3rd line” is kind of a waste of time.

Where does Sam fit best? On our top defensive line? Or on one of the two offensive lines? He is one of the few that can handle playing in either role. I’d rather see him on the top defensive line to give us more balance and offensive firepower from that line.

EDIT: Wouldn’t mind seeing Sam get a spin at center on that line. I’m not a fan of Erod getting tried there. Which gets me back to my supreme frustration that Phil won’t give Sam a shot there.

That’s fair, just asking the poster why they have it that way.

As for that particular lineup, I think if you’re going to put Reinhart outside the top 6 at least put him at center. If you have him with 3rd line talent at least allow him to play a position where he would be i position to get the puck more often to utilize his decision making more often.
 

Sabresfansince1980

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EDIT: Wouldn’t mind seeing Sam get a spin at center on that line. I’m not a fan of Erod getting tried there. Which gets me back to my supreme frustration that Phil won’t give Sam a shot there.

My supreme frustration is that this issue is never brought up by local media. Apparently Reinhart will never play C or even be a C option, and considering this is a significant organizational hole we'd think someone would ask what the plans are for now and the near future.

Edit - the "organizational hole" is not the C position in general, but the lack of any good option after Sobotka...besides Reinhart.
 
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Aavvaa

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Jul 2, 2018
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Main board Pens fans would do Sobotka for Brassard.
I'd love Brassard.

My only question is what does he get on his new deal considering he's been kinda bleh in Pittsburgh but he's a proven top 6 C, those guys get paid in Free agency, and I don't really want any part of a long term deal for Brassard.

For Sobotka I'd do it anyway since if he walks it's just free cap space for us.
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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Re: Impact from Jack on Skinner goals

Skinner goals from Jack - A brief writeup on the events of the goal. opinion in italics

10/20 vs LAK -- Jack Primary assist - Jack board battle vs 2 Kings. When he does so he throws the puck down low. Skinner reads the play and heads below the goal line where he beats the LA defense to the puck. Comes on the opposite side to beat the goaltender. Jack was an important part of the play. Without his board work the goal does not happen.

10/20 vs LAK -- Jack Secondary assist - Jack feeds the puck to E-rod who was waiting on the faceoff dot in the defensive zone. E-rod quickly passes the puck to Skinner who carries the puck into the neutral zone, and fires just before the Red Line. Empty Net Goal. One of those plays that it was a nice heads up play to get the open guy. E-rod saw Skinner driving up the ice. Nice look by Jack.

10/21 vs ANA -- Jack Secondary assist - Jack is at the boards in the defensive zone. He chips the puck to Pominville who is busting up the ice with Skinner. This forms a 2 on 1. Pominville feeds Skinner who goes one on one with the goaltender and puts it back hand on Miller. Jack had an important role as he took a defenseman out of the play with his deft re-direct of a "pass" that broke Anaheim's defense. Nice feed from Pominville to really get the meat of the play and Skinner finishing.

10/27 vs Columbus-- Jack Secondary assist - Play starts with a Risto keep in at the blueline, barely. Puck is thrown around the boards, which Eichel collects and passes it to McCabe who one-times a shot onto the net. Puck is deflected just in front of the crease and bounces right to Skinner who one-times a shot past the goaltender. The key part of the play was Risto Keeping it in, Eichel fed McCabe and we received a lucky bounce that without Skinner in the right place at the right time goes wide and doesn't amount to much.

11/1 vs Ottawa -- Jack Secondary assist - Play begins with Jack going down low on the PP. Feeds Reinhart the puck who goes to the other side of the net. Feeds it back to Jack who passes it to Risto, who took a wrist shot, which Skinner deflected into the net. IMO, I know Jack had a lot to do with the play, but Risto had the more important part to Skinner.

11/3 vs Ottawa -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins with a faceoff battle, which Pominville feeds Jack with a pass. Jack shoots it on net. Rebounds bounces off of Skinner's thigh. Lucky goal, but you need someone to shoot it on net and you need someone to be in scoring position.

11/8 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins with Montreal trying to exit the zone. They try a pass via backhand which Skinner stops. He immediately, after putting on a display of balancing, attacks the net on a mini 3 on 4, tries a pass across to Pominville who was streaking. Instead, the puck is blocked and goes back to Skinner who attempts a shot on net, goalie stops it. Rebound goes in the corner where Jack collects the puck (delayed penalty on Montreal). Jack shoots, hits crossbar and Skinner collects the rebound and puts it away. Play is all Skinner, but Jack kept it alive.

11/8 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - Jack wins the faceoff, passes to Skinner for an easy tap in. Play is easily all Jack on this, Skinner just needed to capitalize.

11/16 vs Winnipeg -- Jack Primary assist - Dahlin starts the play on the PP. He feeds it to Jack who waits and then shoots on net. After the goalie makes the save theres a brief time the puck is loose as Trouba couldn't find it. Skinner who is at the top of the crease find the puck and backhands it top corner. Simple play made by Jack, Skinner made sure to clean up the garbage.

11/23 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - OT winner that sees Jack and Skinner creating Havoc in front of the net off a Dahlin one-timer. Jack does a great job of tying guys up which makes the players not able to clear the front, Skinner cleans up. I think without Jack there Skinner doesn't get a clean shot to pull the puck back

11/24 vs Detroit -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins a Reinhart battle down low, Okposo collects the puck and passes it around the boards to Jack who fumbles the puck and tries to chip it down low. Detroit intercepts and feeds the puck in the direction of where Jack was trying to send the puck. Okposo races to the puck, and plays it to the blueline. Risto keeps it in, and feeds it across the ice where he takes a shot on net. Skinner is in the slot and pounces on the rebound and puts it away. Not much to say on this goal.

I think looking at those goals, I feel like though Eichel was an important piece of the play, there weren't many awe-inspiring plays that ONLY Jack can do. I feel like of any "high difficulty" plays, it pretty much only includes the faceoff win directly to Jeff.

I think what we're seeing is a chemistry in the sense that Jack might start a play with a simple decision/play, and Skinner being known for his nose to the net is there to cash in on what happens after, either from other guys decisions or plays. It's like watching the Hecht-Briere-Dumont/Pominville lines from years back. Jack/Hecht in this sense is making subtle plays that might seem basic, but are needed to further the play, and Skinner is taking the role of Briere, the guy who seems to find himself right place and right time, with the dynamic skating and balance to win battles in high traffic areas. The role of Dumont and Pominville are filled by, funny enough, Pominville and Reinhart. I believe we are seeing the makings of what is needed to get the most out of Jack. You need someone who is capable of going to the dirty areas of the ice and get there at the right time, and you need someone that can continue to push the play and make smart decisions.

With that said, there are most likely awe-inspiring plays these two form that were cashed in by either guy.

Quite interesting that out of Skinner's 28 points (8 assists) there have been two goals by Buffalo that were assisted BOTH by Skinner and Eichel.

Final Words...Montreal has to be hating to play Eichel/Skinner a lot up to this point.
 

OkimLom

Registered User
May 3, 2010
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I think you forgot how good Vanek was while he was here

No, not really. Considering Vanek was my favorite while he was here, I would say I remember him quite fondly. I think there are aspects to Reinhart's game, that aren't unlocked yet, and is a more complete player than Vanek.
 

sabrebuild

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Apr 21, 2014
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I'd love Brassard.

My only question is what does he get on his new deal considering he's been kinda bleh in Pittsburgh but he's a proven top 6 C, those guys get paid in Free agency, and I don't really want any part of a long term deal for Brassard.

For Sobotka I'd do it anyway since if he walks it's just free cap space for us.

Ya I’d do that for the one less year of Sobotka.
 
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sabrebuild

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Apr 21, 2014
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Re: Impact from Jack on Skinner goals

Skinner goals from Jack - A brief writeup on the events of the goal. opinion in italics

10/20 vs LAK -- Jack Primary assist - Jack board battle vs 2 Kings. When he does so he throws the puck down low. Skinner reads the play and heads below the goal line where he beats the LA defense to the puck. Comes on the opposite side to beat the goaltender. Jack was an important part of the play. Without his board work the goal does not happen.

10/20 vs LAK -- Jack Secondary assist - Jack feeds the puck to E-rod who was waiting on the faceoff dot in the defensive zone. E-rod quickly passes the puck to Skinner who carries the puck into the neutral zone, and fires just before the Red Line. Empty Net Goal. One of those plays that it was a nice heads up play to get the open guy. E-rod saw Skinner driving up the ice. Nice look by Jack.

10/21 vs ANA -- Jack Secondary assist - Jack is at the boards in the defensive zone. He chips the puck to Pominville who is busting up the ice with Skinner. This forms a 2 on 1. Pominville feeds Skinner who goes one on one with the goaltender and puts it back hand on Miller. Jack had an important role as he took a defenseman out of the play with his deft re-direct of a "pass" that broke Anaheim's defense. Nice feed from Pominville to really get the meat of the play and Skinner finishing.

10/27 vs Columbus-- Jack Secondary assist - Play starts with a Risto keep in at the blueline, barely. Puck is thrown around the boards, which Eichel collects and passes it to McCabe who one-times a shot onto the net. Puck is deflected just in front of the crease and bounces right to Skinner who one-times a shot past the goaltender. The key part of the play was Risto Keeping it in, Eichel fed McCabe and we received a lucky bounce that without Skinner in the right place at the right time goes wide and doesn't amount to much.

11/1 vs Ottawa -- Jack Secondary assist - Play begins with Jack going down low on the PP. Feeds Reinhart the puck who goes to the other side of the net. Feeds it back to Jack who passes it to Risto, who took a wrist shot, which Skinner deflected into the net. IMO, I know Jack had a lot to do with the play, but Risto had the more important part to Skinner.

11/3 vs Ottawa -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins with a faceoff battle, which Pominville feeds Jack with a pass. Jack shoots it on net. Rebounds bounces off of Skinner's thigh. Lucky goal, but you need someone to shoot it on net and you need someone to be in scoring position.

11/8 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins with Montreal trying to exit the zone. They try a pass via backhand which Skinner stops. He immediately, after putting on a display of balancing, attacks the net on a mini 3 on 4, tries a pass across to Pominville who was streaking. Instead, the puck is blocked and goes back to Skinner who attempts a shot on net, goalie stops it. Rebound goes in the corner where Jack collects the puck (delayed penalty on Montreal). Jack shoots, hits crossbar and Skinner collects the rebound and puts it away. Play is all Skinner, but Jack kept it alive.

11/8 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - Jack wins the faceoff, passes to Skinner for an easy tap in. Play is easily all Jack on this, Skinner just needed to capitalize.

11/16 vs Winnipeg -- Jack Primary assist - Dahlin starts the play on the PP. He feeds it to Jack who waits and then shoots on net. After the goalie makes the save theres a brief time the puck is loose as Trouba couldn't find it. Skinner who is at the top of the crease find the puck and backhands it top corner. Simple play made by Jack, Skinner made sure to clean up the garbage.

11/23 vs Montreal -- Jack Primary assist - OT winner that sees Jack and Skinner creating Havoc in front of the net off a Dahlin one-timer. Jack does a great job of tying guys up which makes the players not able to clear the front, Skinner cleans up. I think without Jack there Skinner doesn't get a clean shot to pull the puck back

11/24 vs Detroit -- Jack Primary assist - Play begins a Reinhart battle down low, Okposo collects the puck and passes it around the boards to Jack who fumbles the puck and tries to chip it down low. Detroit intercepts and feeds the puck in the direction of where Jack was trying to send the puck. Okposo races to the puck, and plays it to the blueline. Risto keeps it in, and feeds it across the ice where he takes a shot on net. Skinner is in the slot and pounces on the rebound and puts it away. Not much to say on this goal.

I think looking at those goals, I feel like though Eichel was an important piece of the play, there weren't many awe-inspiring plays that ONLY Jack can do. I feel like of any "high difficulty" plays, it pretty much only includes the faceoff win directly to Jeff.

I think what we're seeing is a chemistry in the sense that Jack might start a play with a simple decision/play, and Skinner being known for his nose to the net is there to cash in on what happens after, either from other guys decisions or plays. It's like watching the Hecht-Briere-Dumont/Pominville lines from years back. Jack/Hecht in this sense is making subtle plays that might seem basic, but are needed to further the play, and Skinner is taking the role of Briere, the guy who seems to find himself right place and right time, with the dynamic skating and balance to win battles in high traffic areas. The role of Dumont and Pominville are filled by, funny enough, Pominville and Reinhart. I believe we are seeing the makings of what is needed to get the most out of Jack. You need someone who is capable of going to the dirty areas of the ice and get there at the right time, and you need someone that can continue to push the play and make smart decisions.

With that said, there are most likely awe-inspiring plays these two form that were cashed in by either guy.

Quite interesting that out of Skinner's 28 points (8 assists) there have been two goals by Buffalo that were assisted BOTH by Skinner and Eichel.

Final Words...Montreal has to be hating to play Eichel/Skinner a lot up to this point.

Very nice write up. It reads like what my eyes were telling me.

But that’s great as far as I’m concerned. If Skinner can just keep finding soft spots and let Jack dictate play to get in zone, that’s some sustainable general offense.

It also doesn’t make me worry if they have to play on separate lines at some point.

In a funny way, plus a little lucky, Skinner and Kane have similar tendencies to be puck dominant players, but where Kane didn’t mesh with Jack at all, Skinner finds the soft spots in dangerous areas very well.

Good work.
 

GellMann

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Dec 16, 2014
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I'd love Brassard.

My only question is what does he get on his new deal considering he's been kinda bleh in Pittsburgh but he's a proven top 6 C, those guys get paid in Free agency, and I don't really want any part of a long term deal for Brassard.

For Sobotka I'd do it anyway since if he walks it's just free cap space for us.
This is why I think it's shocking that Pitt fans would want to do this. Doesn't Vlad have term left? And he's already not very good. Sure, they save a little money for a few months, but I have to imagine that Brassard's trade value hasn't deteriorated to that point with only 5 months of hockey left before his contract expires.
 

Sabre the Win

Joke of a Franchise
Jun 27, 2013
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It's a 2 way street. Your basing 7.5 to 8.5 on what? It's been rumored he's looking for 9 to 9.5
You must be new to negotiations, the player always starts high and the organization starts low, then you meet somewhere in the middle.

Also a lot of players choose lifestyle slightly over the paycheque. If he can collect 8 mil a season and be close to home that's a win/win in his situation as apposed to being away from home and making a mil more.
 

Djp

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Jul 28, 2012
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With Poms injury I’d go with

Skinner-Eichel-Thompson
Girgensons-Erod-Reinhart
Sherry-Mitts-KO
Sobotka-Karsson-Berglund

Or call up Nylander/Smith ..put thrn with Reinhart, put Gurgs in 4th line and sit Sobotka.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
18,142
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I'd love Brassard.

My only question is what does he get on his new deal considering he's been kinda bleh in Pittsburgh but he's a proven top 6 C, those guys get paid in Free agency, and I don't really want any part of a long term deal for Brassard.

For Sobotka I'd do it anyway since if he walks it's just free cap space for us.

I'd trade Sobotka for 6 months of Brassard. If he works out, then consider signing him long term. If the team can't work something out, then they get 6 months of a center, and a year less of Sobotka.

I'd go to the playoffs like this:

Skinner - Eichel - Reinhart
Sheary - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Thompson - Brassard - Pominville/ERod
Berglund - Larsson - Girgensons


This is why I think it's shocking that Pitt fans would want to do this. Doesn't Vlad have term left? And he's already not very good. Sure, they save a little money for a few months, but I have to imagine that Brassard's trade value hasn't deteriorated to that point with only 5 months of hockey left before his contract expires.

After reading notes from Pens fans, his value has dropped tremendously.
 

Yatzhee

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Aug 5, 2010
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You must be new to negotiations, the player always starts high and the organization starts low, then you meet somewhere in the middle.

Also a lot of players choose lifestyle slightly over the paycheque. If he can collect 8 mil a season and be close to home that's a win/win in his situation as apposed to being away from home and making a mil more.
This is speculative. It may be that he wants the extra 1 to 1.5 million given he'll play 41+ of his games in New York State. That whole state income tax thing and all. It has been reported in the past players take that 8n to consideration, amongst other variables. But that is speculative as well.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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Because using the judgement of coaches who have questionable judgements themselves as the bar of what a player is, is the way to go...

Nah, it’s just been 4 years at this point. It would be pretty surprising at this point if he makes the switch. They don’t have the right wing depth for him to switch currently. And with Mitts as the presumptive, eventual 2C and Asplund coming and the firsts coming up, realistically Reinhart is extremely unlikely to play Center in Buffalo.
 

PatrikBerglund

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May 29, 2017
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Put Larsson on a line with more gifted offensive players.

Larsson-Mittelstadt-Okposo


Or something like that...
 

OkimLom

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May 3, 2010
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Nah, it’s just been 4 years at this point. It would be pretty surprising at this point if he makes the switch. They don’t have the right wing depth for him to switch currently. And with Mitts as the presumptive, eventual 2C and Asplund coming and the firsts coming up, realistically Reinhart is extremely unlikely to play Center in Buffalo.

I doubt even if they had the RW depth or flexibility they would put him there.
 
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