Rumor: 2018-19 Kings News/Rumors/Tidbits

[SFKingshomer]

I haven't watched a game this season but I'd imagine a huge part of the reason they are slow is the lack of puck support and piss poor breakout passes from the D.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

If it wasn't for his draft year I doubt he'd be on the team considering how neutered his game is. His first passes are awful and he can't get the puck out

Is there an actual stat for that, or are you basing that off of the eye test? Because again, I don't see it, yea, he's had some whiffs, misfires and down right brutal passes, but again, so has everyone....

 

[Sol]

I haven't watched a game this season but I'd imagine a huge part of the reason they are slow is the lack of puck support and piss poor breakout passes from the D.

Muzzin and Forbort have been the worst at breakout passes and getting the puck out. They have the most lapses.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Forbort, a former 1st round pick who had his tires pumped as some future top 3 defenseman is playing on the top pairing with Drew Doughty, and we’re being asked by the resident homer what it is that we expect from him.

Gee, I don’t know, maybe a competent defenseman who can defend well, isn’t caught flat footed constantly, can complete passes, and doesn’t constantly get his shot blocked that leads to counter attacks? Or is that asking for too much? Maybe we should lower our standards.

Remember when Forbort’s skating was praised as one of his strengths? You know who else had a similar bio and is now playing in Europe? Keaton Ellerby. That’s exactly what Forbort is.

If you’re satisfied with those results, then you simply have low standards. But that’s all understandable considering the team you’re rooting for.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Forbort, a former 1st round pick who had his tires pumped as some future top 3 defenseman is playing on the top pairing with Drew Doughty, and we’re being asked by the resident homer what it is that we expect from him.

Gee, I don’t know, maybe a competent defenseman who can defend well, isn’t caught flat footed constantly, can complete passes, and doesn’t constantly get his shot blocked that leads to counter attacks? Or is that asking for too much? Maybe we should lower our standards.

Remember when Forbort’s skating was praised as one of his strengths? You know who else had a similar bio and is now playing in Europe? Keaton Ellerby. That’s exactly what Forbort is.

If you’re satisfied with those results, then you simply have low standards. But that’s all understandable considering the team you’re rooting for.

So in otherwords, what he does now, is what you expect....he defends fine, there will be mistakes made, but if you hyper-sensitive to each one, they will all feel like a million and things tend to get blown out of proportion..... he's definitely not caught flat footed constantly, he can complete passes, and his shot..yea, gets blocked a lot, as does everyone not named Fantenberg at this point.

I ask what the expectations are, because everything I see on this board is people complaining about him...and yet...the eye test, watching him play, doesn't match to what is being complained about, which I suppose is par for the course here on HF....

 

[BigKing]

I still don't get why everyone keeps complaining about the Kovalchuk signing. There was no asset cost in signing him and he has shown so far this season to still be a high end offensive player. This team won the Jennings last season and was 16th in the league in scoring. They had more ROW and a better goal differential than Anaheim and San Jose, behind only Vegas in the Pacific. There was no reason to tear the team apart and tank at that point, he went out and attempted to fix the one issue the team had in the playoffs at no cost to the teams future. I think Blake has been handling the re-tool perfect, he is allowing Kopi and Dewey to still try to remain competitive(even though that has not worked out this season), yet at the same time has been stocking the cupboard.

Because it signals that this team is a contender, which they are not. It means you are banking on another career year from Kopitar and Brown while ignoring all the other years they have been in the league. It relies too much on the "Sutter is gone!" boost from 10/17 - 12/17 while forgetting about the second half of the season.

It is funny seeing "re-tool" all the time on here, like it is some sort of easy thing to do and any team can do it. San Jose missed the playoffs a year after being mentally demolished by the Kings but followed that up with a SCF appearance. Their core did it, this core has one playoff game win since 2014. Boston sold guys and has better prospects. The Kings don't have those prospects.

Blake hasn't retooled shit. He rolled the same team out there last season save for Iafallo and a full-time Kempe prior to the Phaneuf trade. The latter isn't really a retool move, however, since it was just moving big, old money for some more useful old, big money. Then he brought it back and added a high-priced UFA while not accumulating any draft picks. Hell, he traded a f***ing 4th rounder for worthless Torrie Mitchell last season.

Simply holding your draft picks, keeping basically everyone and then bringing in an aging name in the hopes of making the playoffs is not retooling: it is the "Dave Taylor Black Hole brought to you by AEG". So they can maybe make the playoffs and pick in the low teens/early 20s or miss and pick somewhere from 11-13.

That was the fear with the roster heading in to last season but it was even worse since they made the playoffs only to score 3 goals and then pick later in the draft. It also allowed Luc and Co. to trot out the contender bullshit, leading to the gang coming back and an attempt to trade for an aging big name before signing an aging big name. I like Kovy more than any potential Patches trade but that is primarily because the latter would have been a complete disaster. The fact they even wanted to do it in the first place should show how delusional Management is and, if you blew up Lombardi for not realizing the ride was over, you can't compliment Blake for anything other than not trading a 1st round pick: something that was f***ing obvious to everyone after the 2017 season: even Lombardi. Of course, it is highly probably the 2018 1st was in play for Patches since the deal had to occur prior to the Kings using the pick.

While it is known I dislike Blake due to his actions as a player, I actually love Luc as a player. In this current scenario though, Luc is the problem for me and I feel Blake is being managed.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We all know you watch the games through rose tinted glasses while your head is buried in the sand. It must break your heart to read critical comments about a flawed team.

Of course, Forbort isn’t THE problem, but symbolizes a problem that has mired this organization for years.

If Forbort was doing things right and playing just fine, then why is he the odd man out on the blueline? Could it be because he has many limitations and that he can’t even execute whatever it is that he’s supposed to be good at?

No, of course not. We’re the biased ones against him and don’t want to see Forbort to succeed because of inane, irrational thoughts. We just don’t process and understand the game at your level.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

We all know you watch the games through rose tinted glasses while your head is buried in the sand. It must break your heart to read critical comments about a flawed team.

Of course, Forbort isn’t THE problem, but symbolizes a problem that has mired this organization for years.

If Forbort was doing things right and playing just fine, then why is he the odd man out on the blueline? Could it be because he has many limitations and that he can’t even execute whatever it is that he’s supposed to be good at?

No, of course not. We’re the biased ones against him and don’t want to see Forbort to succeed because of inane, irrational thoughts. We just don’t process and understand the game at your level.

LOL buddy, you are so damned angry....who knows why Forbort is the odd man out....for one game.....beginning of the season....when the team is mired in a slump....

You use that as the reason why you are right ffs....lol but after watching LaDue, you guys will beg for Forbort to come back in, LaDue is fine in the offensive zone, and a mess in the D zone...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

LOL buddy, you are so damned angry....who knows why Forbort is the odd man out....for one game.....beginning of the season....when the team is mired in a slump....

You use that as the reason why you are right ffs....lol but after watching LaDue, you guys will beg for Forbort to come back in, LaDue is fine in the offensive zone, and a mess in the D zone...

And clearly Forbort is an elite defensive defenseman, which is why he doesn’t suppress shots and does a horrendous job around his own net. I guess those must be some things that your eye ball test failed to register.

The Kings need quick thinking dmen who can make quick decisions and reads and not hesitate when the puck is on their stick. Things Forbort isn’t necessarily good at if you paid any attention.

 

[YP44]

off topic but what is everyone's thought about the below:
Toffoli + Muzzin for Kapenan + Gardiner + 2nd?

Who ads, would you do it? Would Toronto?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And clearly Forbort is an elite defensive defenseman, which is why he doesn’t suppress shots and does a horrendous job around his own net. I guess those must be some things that your eye ball test failed to register.

The Kings need quick thinking dmen who can make quick decisions and reads and not hesitate when the puck is on their stick. Things Forbort isn’t necessarily good at if you paid any attention.

Never said he was an elite anything lol, again that's your anger pouring out of you, have a drink bud, relax.

He does an adequate job around the net, he's a solid #5-#6, potential for a #4, suppress shots...must be a new thing, are you talking blocked shots there sparky?

Agree, Kings need quick thinking D who can make quick decisions and reads, Forbort is fine in that area.... again, I think your expectations are a bit out of whack there, anger tends to do that to people.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

off topic but what is everyone's thought about the below:
Toffoli + Muzzin for Kapenan + Gardiner + 2nd?

Who ads, would you do it? Would Toronto?

Toronto wouldn't touch that, does nothing for them but add cap space, Kapanen right now, is better than Toffoli, and Gardiner for Muzzin is a wash....

 

[BigKing]

Forbort is an extremely boring player so, when he's good, you don't notice him but he is a sore thumb when he's bad. Right now, he's pretty terrible and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with conditioning etc...after the back issue since he is a dude that can't afford to lose anything off his skating and reaction time since he is a big oaf.

When he's on, however, he is just fine. Definitely not worthy of a 1st round pick which, as Herby mentioned, leads to him being hated even more.

He's so vanilla though that it is so easy to rag on him. It is also easier to rag on giants that play like total pansies. He is a much better player than MacDermid but at least MacDermid does things that are entertaining so there is way more love for MacD.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Forbort is an extremely boring player so, when he's good, you don't notice him but he is a sore thumb when he's bad. Right now, he's pretty terrible and I'm sure a lot of it has to do with conditioning etc...after the back issue since he is a dude that can't afford to lose anything off his skating and reaction time since he is a big oaf.

When he's on, however, he is just fine. Definitely not worthy of a 1st round pick which, as Herby mentioned, leads to him being hated even more.

He's so vanilla though that it is so easy to rag on him. It is also easier to rag on giants that play like total pansies. He is a much better player than MacDermid but at least MacDermid does things that are entertaining so there is way more love for MacD.

I guess, I mean, I understand what your saying....and right now everyone is sticking out like a sore thumb, but just in general the hate for Forbort is...weird at best...

 

[LAKings88]

This team is digging a big hole to start the year. Too much parity to crap the bed so bad this early.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I guess, I mean, I understand what your saying....and right now everyone is sticking out like a sore thumb, but just in general the hate for Forbort is...weird at best...

It's not hate, he's unlikable for the reasons mentioned above. And yes, the fact that he's big and doesn't establish a presence in front of his net is a big sore spot that Forbort fails to execute.

Guys like Regehr and Greene were also slow footed and not known for their puck skills, but I never ragged on those guys because they laid their bodies out to help the team. Sure, people got on Greene for the number of times he got delay of game penalties for shooting the puck over the glass, and towards the end of his career it was obvious he didn't have much to offer, but he knew his strengths and he put them to use. Same with Regehr. And there are other examples.

I keep comparing Forbort to Ellerby, and you can chalk him up to another first round disappointment of another big dman who didn't have it in him to play a vicious game, Jeff Schultz. Not everyone is going to be a Drew Doughty or Erik Karlsson on defense, but if you're getting top 4 minutes, you have to contribute to the team somehow. And that criticism isn't exclusive to Forbort. There's a number of slackers that fans have been riding for a few years who continue to draw the ire of the masses.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It's not hate, he's unlikable for the reasons mentioned above. And yes, the fact that he's big and doesn't establish a presence in front of his net is a big sore spot that Forbort fails to execute.

Guys like Regehr and Greene were also slow footed and not known for their puck skills, but I never ragged on those guys because they laid their bodies out to help the team. Sure, people got on Greene for the number of times he got delay of game penalties for shooting the puck over the glass, and towards the end of his career it was obvious he didn't have much to offer, but he knew his strengths and he put them to use. Same with Regehr. And there are other examples.

I keep comparing Forbort to Ellerby, and you can chalk him up to another first round disappointment of another big dman who didn't have it in him to play a vicious game, Jeff Schultz. Not everyone is going to be a Drew Doughty or Erik Karlsson on defense, but if you're getting top 4 minutes, you have to contribute to the team somehow. And that criticism isn't exclusive to Forbort. There's a number of slackers that fans have been riding for a few years who continue to draw the ire of the masses.

Different game these days, you can't sit in front of the net and just CRANK on guys like Regehr and Greene used to be able to, Forbort uses his size in front of the net to box out, and he does that efficiently.

Forbort does contribute, but I agree, he's better suited in a bottom 3 role, he's a tweener between 4-5, it all depends on who is partner is etc. But calling Forbort a slacker is to completely use his draft position against him and misunderstand what he does do out there...

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Well, no, because you can't just stop drafting in the 1st round and trade the picks for established players, the system is set-up where you have to have productive players on ELC's. And if you don't, well then you end up like the Kings the last four years.

Just pointing out that while we want to talk about coaches sucking or players underperforming the biggest reason we are where we are is the fact that the Kings have developed one player since the 2012 cup win who has been either a top 6 forward or a top 4 d-man (Toffoli a 2nd line rw). I can't imagine any teams in the NHL could be worse.

The way to fix that is to accumulate more picks and prospects and the way to do that is to trade older, declining assets. My biggest worry is that Blake is going to give this core yet another chance and trade more picks or prospects (like he tried to do for Patches), especially if the ticket or tv numbers start dropping and Luc gets involved.

We know the system is set up to where you need to have good players on ELCs. I’m just asking if it’s a wash if we draft like **** and it doesn’t matter if we traded high draft picks?

The picks were used to draft Julien Gauthier, Jakob zubril, and we also traded Roland McKeown away. All these guys are in the AHL. None of them are lighting it up in the AHL. None would help the kings right now.

 

[BigKing]

I guess, I mean, I understand what your saying....and right now everyone is sticking out like a sore thumb, but just in general the hate for Forbort is...weird at best...

Adam Ant said it best when he said:

"Don't drink, don't smoke...what do you do?"

He provides no offense or physicality so he needs to be like a Scuderi-type. Maybe he could have been in the NHL of 2010 but it is harder to be effective as this type of player.

The hate stems from him being traded up for in the 1st round at a draft held in LA while the Kings already had Doughty/Hickey/Teubert/Voynov as expected future defenseman in the pipeline and only Schenn as a high-impact forward prospect. It seemed like better players were still on the board with Tarasenko being the obvious one.

He seemed like a redundant pick and somewhat of a project. In a world full of young players, it took him forever to become an NHL regular and only an average one at that. He does nothing exciting and, even though he played college hockey forever and, I assume, went to class, he apparently does not know that a chicken is a bird.

Hell, he probably thought a chicken was an offensively-challenged, 6'5" defenseman named Derek.

 

[King'sPawn]

Just curious,

What do people here, expect from a guy like Forbort....try to keep the sarcastic answers to a minimum.

I watch him, he makes mistakes, everyone does...but he's no worse than Muzzin/Martinez etc, what is everyone actually expecting from him?

I don't hate him, and I agree that the fascination with him is bizarre.

Obviously there are many things wrong with different players. As far as Forbort, here are my criticisms (keep in mind these are opinions and no stats):

- if you are paired with Doughty, you either should be STRONG either offensively or defensively. Doughty's smart enough to read the play and react. Forbort is decent defensively and average offensively.
- Forbort hasn't shown an ability to anchor his own pairing. There were comments made years ago about him needing the training wheels taken off back in Sutter days. He hasn't taken that step
- Despite his size, he's not a physical presence and I don't think he uses his reach to his advantage

Long story short, Forbort doesn't have a particular strength to make up for his shortcomings, and has yet to show an ability to anchor his own pairing to give the Kings options, thus limiting options.

Just my opinion. No stats to back it up.

 

[LAKings88]

We know the system is set up to where you need to have good players on ELCs. I’m just asking if it’s a wash if we draft like **** and it doesn’t matter if we traded high draft picks?

The picks were used to draft Julien Gauthier, Jakob zubril, and we also traded Roland McKeown away. All these guys are in the AHL. None of them are lighting it up in the AHL. None would help the kings right now.

I highly Doubt LA would have made those same picks.

 

[bob77]

And clearly Forbort is an elite defensive defenseman, which is why he doesn’t suppress shots and does a horrendous job around his own net. I guess those must be some things that your eye ball test failed to register.

The Kings need quick thinking dmen who can make quick decisions and reads and not hesitate when the puck is on their stick. Things Forbort isn’t necessarily good at if you paid any attention.

The goals for and goals against stats don’t support what you think you see. Others on the team are worse in many categories

 

[crassbonanza]

Because it signals that this team is a contender, which they are not. It means you are banking on another career year from Kopitar and Brown while ignoring all the other years they have been in the league. It relies too much on the "Sutter is gone!" boost from 10/17 - 12/17 while forgetting about the second half of the season.

The Kings finished with the fewest goals allowed and the 16th most goals for. In the playoffs they held the series very tight, despite missing up to half of their defensive core at times.

It is funny seeing "re-tool" all the time on here, like it is some sort of easy thing to do and any team can do it. San Jose missed the playoffs a year after being mentally demolished by the Kings but followed that up with a SCF appearance. Their core did it, this core has one playoff game win since 2014. Boston sold guys and has better prospects. The Kings don't have those prospects.

Nobody is saying it is an easy thing to do. I would argue the portion of the fan base arguing for a rebuild is guilty of the same issue. Everyone assumes that it is easy to acquire a high end number 1 center and number 1 defenseman. That you just have to suck for a few years and you magically will acquire them.

Blake hasn't retooled ****. He rolled the same team out there last season save for Iafallo and a full-time Kempe prior to the Phaneuf trade. The latter isn't really a retool move, however, since it was just moving big, old money for some more useful old, big money. Then he brought it back and added a high-priced UFA while not accumulating any draft picks. Hell, he traded a ****ing 4th rounder for worthless Torrie Mitchell last season.

Blake has been GM for just over a year. In that year, he has done a fantastic job of acquiring College Free Agents to inject some immediate youth into the line up, while allowing the fresh crop of draft picks to develop. Also, this is not the same old lineup we have seen a number of young players come in and outside of Doughty there was nobody brought back who was a UFA. He most definitely has been guiding this team through a re-tool and not sure how signing Kovalchuk to a 3 year deal impacts that.

Simply holding your draft picks, keeping basically everyone and then bringing in an aging name in the hopes of making the playoffs is not retooling: it is the "Dave Taylor Black Hole brought to you by AEG". So they can maybe make the playoffs and pick in the low teens/early 20s or miss and pick somewhere from 11-13.

This is nothing similar to the Dave Taylor years, that is completely unfair. Again, this team showed some great things last season, bringing in Kovalchuk was rewarding the core players and signifying that the rest of their prime wont be wasted in purposefully tanking. I get that some fans think that tanking is the only option if you are not a favorite to win the cup, but it is difficult to sell ownership and the fanbase on tanking. Look at teams that have gone through tanking years, attendance drops significantly. Betraying the core players who brought this team to two Stanley Cups in order to hope we are worse than the other tanking teams, just seems like a shitty thing to do.

That was the fear with the roster heading in to last season but it was even worse since they made the playoffs only to score 3 goals and then pick later in the draft. It also allowed Luc and Co. to trot out the contender bull****, leading to the gang coming back and an attempt to trade for an aging big name before signing an aging big name. I like Kovy more than any potential Patches trade but that is primarily because the latter would have been a complete disaster. The fact they even wanted to do it in the first place should show how delusional Management is and, if you blew up Lombardi for not realizing the ride was over, you can't compliment Blake for anything other than not trading a 1st round pick: something that was ****ing obvious to everyone after the 2017 season: even Lombardi. Of course, it is highly probably the 2018 1st was in play for Patches since the deal had to occur prior to the Kings using the pick.

I can't believe people are complaining about making the playoffs, as many teams have shown you just need to get in and you can do damage. The trade rumor was never confirmed, so I won't bother debating the Patches trade, but I don't see how signing Kovy will have a negative impact on the team in any way. The only argument I have seen is that he will do too good for the Kings and maybe help them make the playoffs. What moves would you have made if you were Blake? You seem to be complaining about making the playoffs, so I assume you would trade away players, would you just take anything? Because it is not easy to just acquire picks like that. Would you just play Kopitar, Drew and Quick with the Reign? After they put together the season they did last season, you would punish the fans and team?

While it is known I dislike Blake due to his actions as a player, I actually love Luc as a player. In this current scenario though, Luc is the problem for me and I feel Blake is being managed.

I don't know what you mean about Blake being managed, but I do believe that AEG is not in the mood to purposefully go through another tank right now. I don't know what you think Luc is doing, but I highly doubt he is doing much other than schmoozing.

 

[bob77]

off topic but what is everyone's thought about the below:
Toffoli + Muzzin for Kapenan + Gardiner + 2nd?

Who ads, would you do it? Would Toronto?

I’d do it in a heartbeat. Toronto would never do this. Ever

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Gardiner is going to be a UFA on July 1.