GDT: 2017 IIHF World Junior Hockey Championships

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

That Jost was physically overmatched and isn't NHL ready strength wise?

I saw a tenacious forechecker that won most of his board battles. Not sure how anyone can claim he was physically overmatched. Even if he is not NHL ready strength wise, like I said earlier imagine how good he'll become when he gets there?

 

[henchman21]

I saw a tenacious forechecker that won most of his board battles. Not sure how anyone can claim he was physically overmatched. Even if he is not NHL ready strength wise, like I said earlier imagine how good he'll become when he gets there?

I wouldn't say he won even close to most of his board battles (not the only place where the lack of strength was evident). I did see the tenacity and I think that is how he won what he did, not so much his strength. On the other point with him getting stronger, there will be a limit, but he will be plenty fine. I'm not worried about him long-term in this area. Just right now he isn't there and it hurts his chances to make the team next year.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I wouldn't say he won even close to most of his board battles (not the only place where the lack of strength was evident). I did see the tenacity and I think that is how he won what he did, not so much his strength. On the other point with him getting stronger, there will be a limit, but he will be plenty fine. I'm not worried about him long-term in this area. Just right now he isn't there and it hurts his chances to make the team next year.

Where else?

We'll just agree to disagree. Especially, considering you don't think it's a long term issue which should be the only concern for the avs.

 

[henchman21]

Where else?

We'll just agree to disagree. Especially, considering you don't think it's a long term issue which should be the only concern for the avs.

When he had the puck and got leaned on in open ice, he'd lose it more frequently than he should. Also couldn't force the puck away in open ice with his body, only his stick. Unless a player is ROR skilled in that area, it doesn't work consistently.

For a roster building for 17-18 they should be concerned with where Jost is strength wise. IMO it wouldn't be the best thing to rush him if he isn't ready, and with top prospects, the Avs are quick to put players in the NHL. I've used the comparison before, but Stepan is who I see with Jost. Stepan had similar issues his freshman year, give Jost enough time to build up his strength like the Rags did with Stepan and I think they eliminate some of the early struggles.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

When he had the puck and got leaned on in open ice, he'd lose it more frequently than he should. Also couldn't force the puck away in open ice with his body, only his stick. Unless a player is ROR skilled in that area, it doesn't work consistently.

For a roster building for 17-18 they should be concerned with where Jost is strength wise. IMO it wouldn't be the best thing to rush him if he isn't ready, and with top prospects, the Avs are quick to put players in the NHL. I've used the comparison before, but Stepan is who I see with Jost. Stepan had similar issues his freshman year, give Jost enough time to build up his strength like the Rags did with Stepan and I think they eliminate some of the early struggles.

I'd like him to get a season in the AHL, especially if the Avs focus on actually building up that squad. Get him used to playing more games, and get him used to some of his future teammates.

 

[Metallo]

I'd like him to get a season in the AHL, especially if the Avs focus on actually building up that squad. Get him used to playing more games, and get him used to some of his future teammates.

Can he play in the AHL next year? If so that would be great. I don't feel he will be ready for the NHL next year. I agree with Henchy on the strenght issues.

 

[ArWKo]

I'd like him to get a season in the AHL, especially if the Avs focus on actually building up that squad. Get him used to playing more games, and get him used to some of his future teammates.

Have there been any examples of NCAA kids (who are succeeding) signing early with their clubs just to play a season in the AHL? Seems like an unlikely scenario doesn't it?

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Can he play in the AHL next year? If so that would be great. I don't feel he will be ready for the NHL next year. I agree with Henchy on the strenght issues.

Have there been any examples of NCAA kids (who are succeeding) signing early with their clubs just to play a season in the AHL? Seems like an unlikely scenario doesn't it?

His AHL eligibility seems to be a question still. There's been some argument that he should since he was drafted out of the CHL, but apparently other Jr. A players have had the CHL-AHL stipulations thrown at them before. If he can't play in the AHL, another season in college would be good, but he may need time to adjust to the increased game load as well...

 

[El Travo]

His AHL eligibility seems to be a question still. There's been some argument that he should since he was drafted out of the CHL, but apparently other Jr. A players have had the CHL-AHL stipulations thrown at them before. If he can't play in the AHL, another season in college would be good, but he may need time to adjust to the increased game load as well...

He was drafted by a CHL team but didn't join that league. He played BCHL and was drafted out of there. CHL should have no right to say no to his AHL eligibility.

 

[henchman21]

He was drafted by a CHL team but didn't join that league. He played BCHL and was drafted out of there. CHL should have no right to say no to his AHL eligibility.

It is thought the CHL agreement covers Junior A as well. Jujhar Khaira is a recent example of a player that had to go to the WHL after being signed. That isn't 100% proof, so it is hard to say, but there is a decent chance Jost would have to go to the WHL instead of the AHL.

 

[Foppa2118]

Jost had the 6th most ice time for the tourney for forwards behind Strome, Barzal and the Q trio.

This is including the early games where he was on the best line with Roy and getting more PP time. When he was shifted to Strome's line they ended up being the 4th line.

 

[tigervixxxen]

This is including the early games where he was on the best line with Roy and getting more PP time. When he was shifted to Strome's line they ended up being the 4th line.

There were only 5 forwards that played more than him yesterday, 3 in the semis.

 

[Foppa2118]

I wouldn't say he won even close to most of his board battles (not the only place where the lack of strength was evident). I did see the tenacity and I think that is how he won what he did, not so much his strength. On the other point with him getting stronger, there will be a limit, but he will be plenty fine. I'm not worried about him long-term in this area. Just right now he isn't there and it hurts his chances to make the team next year.

When he had the puck and got leaned on in open ice, he'd lose it more frequently than he should. Also couldn't force the puck away in open ice with his body, only his stick. Unless a player is ROR skilled in that area, it doesn't work consistently.

For a roster building for 17-18 they should be concerned with where Jost is strength wise. IMO it wouldn't be the best thing to rush him if he isn't ready, and with top prospects, the Avs are quick to put players in the NHL. I've used the comparison before, but Stepan is who I see with Jost. Stepan had similar issues his freshman year, give Jost enough time to build up his strength like the Rags did with Stepan and I think they eliminate some of the early struggles.

Have to disagree again. He was dominating all his board battles early in the tournament. Against players much bigger than him. Then what I think happened was he got gassed playing every other night and a couple back to back games. It was a good learning experience for him knowing how taxing his style will be against bigger players.

Even at the end of the tournament, and in the last game, he was not losing most of his board battles, and it wasn't a strength issue. If it was, he wouldn't win any board battles against bigger players, and he most certainly did. Many times he squeezed by guys trying to muscle him against the boards.

Early in the tournament, he had Roy right next to him in the corners, and behind the net helping him work the cycle and battle for pucks. That's how they played. Then he was shifted to Strome's line who had no intensity or willingness to battle with him.

What happened was he'd go into the corners and fight for the lose puck, squeeze through some checks, and look for some help to pass to, but no one would be around. Happened on almost every shift. Strome would just stand in the slot looking disinterested, and Jost would get double teamed every time. Sometimes he'd make a good pass to the point, or across the ice to keep the play alive, and sometimes he'd end up losing the puck.

The majority of the time, his strength was not the issue.

He will need to get stronger in the summer but it won't ever be a big hurdle for him. Players much smaller then him have no trouble in the NHL because they're elusive, they keep their head up, they're tenacious, and they make smart quick plays. He just needs linemates to help him, because if he's the only guy in the corners, he's going to get double teamed just like Duchene does when he does it all himself.

 

[tigervixxxen]

To say Mikko had an average tournament is fair IMO. He did come up big when they needed it, but he wasn't great the other 5 games. His injury played a role. He is proof positive that a so-so WJC isn't the end of the world and it is okay to call a spade a spade. Jost didn't have a great tournament, nothing wrong with saying that. It seems that Jost can't have any criticism thrown his way...

The original statement wasn't average, it was bad.

And we get it, he's not going to fill the role that people want Jost to fill at the NHL level. God forbid we had drafted Keller too.

 

[Foppa2118]

There were only 5 forwards that played more than him yesterday, 3 in the semis.

What were the even strength ice times? Canada had 5 power plays and he was one of like six forwards that played on it. They really only used the same two units.

He was absolutely on the 4th line. His line was 4th in rotation all game long. He didn't even get a shift until five minutes into OT, and it was only ten seconds, before Ducharme went back to the top line after a whistle. Then his whole line was scrapped for the last five minutes, before he was put out there in the final minute.

 

[henchman21]

The original statement wasn't average, it was bad.

I never said that. I said so-so... another way of saying average.

 

[Foppa2118]

The original statement wasn't average, it was bad.

I never said that. I said so-so... another way of saying average.

For the record I don't think Jost was any better than average overall in the tourney, and his execution level definitely dropped off the last few games. I just think he ended up in a utility player's role to use his tenacity and two way play to help guys get going, like Roy and then Strome, while the bigger named prospects were put in more of a scoring role.

I don't think it was a strength issue, I think he was a tad gassed, and he had no chemistry with his linemates, so he ended up trying to do too much himself.

For example, everyone who thinks it was a strength issue should compare him to someone like Duchene, who has a lot of the same problems when he ends up trying to do too much himself. We know he's plenty strong for his size, but when he tries to do too much he gets double teamed, and in the end it doesn't matter how strong you are, if the opposition gets better body position on you, you're going to get squeezed off the puck. I didn't see Jost getting any help down low from his linemates in the last game.

 

[tigervixxxen]

I never said that. I said so-so... another way of saying average.

I didn't say you did, go back to where the convo started.

 

[henchman21]

I didn't say you did, go back to where the convo started.

I'm not defending (or even trying to) D2M's statements... I came in the middle and said Rants was so-so, which I think is a completely fair assessment of his WJC. He wasn't good and wasn't terrible.

For the record I don't think Jost was any better than average overall in the tourney, and his execution level definitely dropped off the last few games. I just think he ended up in a utility player's role to use his tenacity and two way play to help guys get going, like Roy and then Strome, while the bigger named prospects were put in more of a scoring role.

I don't think it was a strength issue, I think he was a tad gassed, and he had no chemistry with his linemates, so he ended up trying to do too much himself.

For example, everyone who thinks it was a strength issue should compare him to someone like Duchene, who has a lot of the same problems when he ends up trying to do too much himself. We know he's plenty strong for his size, but when he tries to do too much he gets double teamed, and in the end it doesn't matter how strong you are, if the opposition gets better body position on you, you're going to get squeezed off the puck. I didn't see Jost getting any help down low from his linemates in the last game.

Duchene has always had great lower body strength, but even he had some issues when he came in the league. Duchene was and is far more dynamic though and it is easier to let Duchene grow through his. Jost is a few steps behind where Duchene was strength wise. Again, in no way am I saying it isn't correctable. I actually think he will over time, but it might just not be for next season. That is all I'm saying here. He looked overmatched against his peers (I know you don't agree), and that will be worse in the NHL. If he can go to the AHL, by all means sign him and see if he can build up over the summer. If he can't, another year in college could be the best thing for him.

 

[S E P H]

I'm glad that more posters are coming around to the idea that Jost is not physically ready yet. However, I think it has more to do with him being physically immature and can't be fully effective in his game than it is him being soft. I think what we saw is a player who is already a bulldog along the boards and should only get better. I didn't fancy his game though against USA in the finals, as others said here, he was hanging on the puck far too long. I do believe it was a good learning lesson to have that even in the big games, simple is better.

Agreed on McAvoy having a stellar game but as a whole he wasn't that impressive. Good just not enough to make me think we ****ed up.

Cabot's shot is fine...his wrister is accurate which is the most important thing for defenders get your shots through and keep them low.

It's been exactly 365 days since I was that emotionally invested in a game. Makes me sadder the avs are ****. Until next year I guess. Looking forward to seeing more of future av Dahlin too.

I think we're going to have to disagree about Chabot. Majority of his goals were ones from him getting into great position and understanding where the puck was going. He did not get a single goal from either the heaviness of his shot or the accuracy of it IMO. I would actually prefer him over McAvoy if he improves it to the point that it's at an acceptable level for the NHL.

Yeah next year's draft is just too good to not preform a mini-rebuild and restructure. Everyone focusing on Dahlin, but this is also Bode Wilde's draft as well, which has the talent to go 1st overall IMO.

McAvoy is a stud. He is going to be a hell of a NHL player. If the Avs HAD to trade with Boston, I'd be disappointed if he isn't part of the return.

I get the love for Carlo, but honestly McAvoy is the only player I would want back from Boston. Of course if I was Sweeney as well, there should be no reason to get rid of him when I see the ages of some of my NHL defenders.

I am more starting to wonder that Avs need to do a D+F swap for a D+F.

Duchene+Meloche for Krejci+McAvoy. Krejci does have a NMC, so perhaps Spooner if he denies the move.

 

[henchman21]

However, I think it has more to do with him being physically immature and can't be fully effective in his game than it is him being soft.

I agree with this. It is a timing issue more than anything.

 

[Foppa2118]

I get the love for Carlo, but honestly McAvoy is the only player I would want back from Boston. Of course if I was Sweeney as well, there should be no reason to get rid of him when I see the ages of some of my NHL defenders.

I am more starting to wonder that Avs need to do a D+F swap for a D+F.

Duchene+Meloche for Krejci+McAvoy. Krejci does have a NMC, so perhaps Spooner if he denies the move.

McAvoy's offense, shot, and transition game are better than Carlo's and make him more valuable IMO. Carlo will be very good though, and will play a big role in any cup run a team has. He's also a bit safer to hit his potential than McAvoy. I think the jury will be out at the beginning of his career on how much he can improve defensively in the NHL. He reminds me a bit of Yandle in that sense.

 

[avsfan09]

It was probably more of a conditioning issue than strength but he could use both. I don't have any qualms with what he can bring when fresh because at the start of the tournament he was arguably their best player. Just think his decision making and execution dropped off towards the end of the tournament. He was slower in decision making and got the puck knocked off his stick when he had time to make plays.

He's still a great prospect and I look forward to seeing him in the NHL but he definitely has things to work on.

 

[AvsCOL]

I love watching the World Juniors, but people put WAYYYYYYYYY too much stock into how guys play in the tournament. He clearly had zero chemistry with Strome and Spears, none of them could get anything going.


Jost is centering the top line of a very good college team as a rookie, playing against men, has 18 points in 17 games, and has won 63.5% of faceoffs. He's going to be a VERY good player.

 

[Foppa2118]

Duchene has always had great lower body strength, but even he had some issues when he came in the league. Duchene was and is far more dynamic though and it is easier to let Duchene grow through his. Jost is a few steps behind where Duchene was strength wise. Again, in no way am I saying it isn't correctable. I actually think he will over time, but it might just not be for next season. That is all I'm saying here. He looked overmatched against his peers (I know you don't agree), and that will be worse in the NHL. If he can go to the AHL, by all means sign him and see if he can build up over the summer. If he can't, another year in college could be the best thing for him.

I more or less (the overmatched part) agree with what you're saying here, but my point regarding Duchene is that we see a lot of skilled players that can get muscled around out there if they don't have good body positioning. It will happen, and it happens to all of them. It's just something they have to battle through, and the way Jost plays is exactly how you do it, that's why I'm not worried about him as opposed to other smaller players. You have to be smart, and tenacious in your efforts, and elusive to slip checks, and squeeze by hits along the boards.

I really think there's a confusion between doing too much on his own down low and being gassed playing way more games than he's used to, with simply being physically overmatched. I don't think he's used to playing his usual style with requires a lot of skating, against bigger and faster guys every other night, and in back to back games. It's more taxing than what he's used to, and I think it was a good learning experience for him.

Can we at least agree that we and everyone else saw Jost winning almost all his battles with second and third efforts, and creating scoring chances afterwards early in the tournament, especially on Roy's line? He was playing like his usual tenacious self out there winning battles left and right. If it were just a physical issue, him being outmatched would be consistent throughout the tournament.

Therefore I think you have to conclude there's another reason for why his battles and production became less effective.