USA's team was not much better (on paper at least) last year and they won bronze. And many other teams in that tournament had better rosters than what they'll have this time around.
WC: 2016 Team Finland
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Now here's a story I heard concerning Lindell:
Apparently it was all about personal relations. In most conditions, he truly would have been a Black Ace with the big club. But when it's Jere Lehtinen who calls and makes a request, there is one organization in the NHL that is bound to listen. And that's why Lindell's now with Team Finland.
Apparently it was all about personal relations. In most conditions, he truly would have been a Black Ace with the big club. But when it's Jere Lehtinen who calls and makes a request, there is one organization in the NHL that is bound to listen. And that's why Lindell's now with Team Finland.
Alessandro Seren Rosso
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HockeyHistorian
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Would be a great final! I'm sure many of us would like a rematch after what happened in the 2014 WHC final.
mindfly
Happy camper!
Wtf... Laine is in but Puljujärvi out? What happend here, I thought they were equally good?
Or did he decline a spot with the team due to fatique?
Or did he decline a spot with the team due to fatique?
Coaches pick players based on what they personally see, not what the media hype is. Players who don't get to play preliminary NT games are always long shots, unless they're NHLers. If a player is really good in Liiga finals, he might get a pass, due to obvious scheduling conflicts.
Puljujärvi has played zero men's international games on his career. After his playoff run was ended, he went to the U18 Worlds. Therefore he was a complete unknown as to how he might fit into Jalonen's game plan. And while he was very good in all these junior games he played both a week ago and over New Year's, those are still miles apart from men's games, and no indicator of how a player might do in those.
Laine played two EHT games in February, showing he's not out of place on that level, and had monster playoffs, winning the MVP award. In the world of adult hockey, that put him miles ahead of Puljujärvi.
Laine has shown more on the men's level, and has some world-class talents that few other players can bring to the team. Puljujärvi is more well-rounded, but doesn't bring much that more experienced players can't provide yet. Plus he's played a lot this season, so he's probably more than a little tired and dealing with some injuries.
I have no idea why Puljujarvi went to the U18 Worlds, he would've had to score 5 points a game for it to not hurt his draft stock, it does show his devotion to his country though.
Yaddayaddayadda... Laine didn't definitely play well in those two meaningless EHT games earlier this season. And who cares, because they were so long time ago around the time when he was having some problems in Liiga also. He got over them and played better and better towards the end of the season. And yes, he had amazing playoffs. But so did Pulju also. In fact Pulju scored and assisted overtime winning goals and had more points per game than Laine in the playoffs, even though he received way less ice time. The only reasons why Pulju didn't get picked were the huge amount of games he played so far and being fatigued and injured with at least three different injuries. It is obvious that Koojii left still the door a bit open for Pulju after the U18 tournament, because it was not clear what Pulju's situation was after a very long season and several known injuries.
If he wouldn't have thought that Pulju would be ready for WHC as a player, he wouldn't even let the door in any way open. Koojii has never been interested in appealing to the masses, so there is no reason why he would ever leave the door open like that, unless there was a real shot for Pulju to make it.
But nice to see that Koojii is beginning to understand that you don't need to count too much on just experienced players, when you have several of exceptionally talented young players. He made his new record by a mile with picking young talents this time. I was seriously a bit afraid that he would be as idiotic as so many Finnish nutcases whom I have heard lately say that Aho or Laine should not be picked to the team, because they are just kids and the games are for men.
I think people who think like this are very, very black and white thinking and with very limited understanding of all the different ways how success can be achieved in competitive environment. Or one option is also that they are extremely envious of the youth and the extreme talent that some individuals can have in life - even at the same time. Probably putting down these superkids gives some kind of weird satisfaction to them or boosts these people's uncertain ego.
Well, anyway sad for Jesse losing his chances because of his injuries, but very happy for Sebastian, Patrik and Mikko at least deservingly getting picked.
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I don't think it ever hurt his draft stock. He was locked #3 before and after. Nothing changed in that and he was a beast in U18 as well.
Apparently the U18 coach Ahokas and men's coach Kari Jalonen had a deal that one U18 big gun from the loser of FEL semifinal series between Kärpät (Pulju) and Tappara (Laine) would go represent U18. Tappara won so Pulju went to U18. In media it was said he also wanted to go to U18 despite of having small injuries.
Some of us Finns on this same thread speculated that Laine might have not went to U18 if Tappara lost the semifinal cause Laine was already then considered better than Pulju by many so maybe Kari Jalonen would've wanted him with men's. Or let's not say better but that special ability of Laine's to snipe goals was a tool needed in the men's team more than what Pulju had to offer.
His draft stock wasn't hurt largely because he was throwing up and injured. If he had like the 4th best PPG for the tournament and was healthy there would no doubt be naysayers questioning if he is actually better than Brown, Jost, Keller, etc.
He seems like a great guy, always a plus
Why did he get so little ice time? You would think that if he really was good enough to play in men's WC, Marjamäki would have used him a lot more in the Liiga playoffs. Why would the future head coach of the Finnish national team sit a guy on the bench so much if he's a WC calibre player? To me that sounds downright stupid.
Jarey Curry
Avalanche of Makar
That doesnt put him miles ahead of Puljujärvi, if Jesse was given the same chance as Patrik was given, and then failed miserably in EHT, then it would put Laine a mile ahead of him, but he wasn't/was too busy with u18
And here we have two boneheads who did not get the crux of the statement. It was not written from the objective point of view. I was simply stating the fact that, at the end of the day, KJ knew far better what Laine could do in men's games than what Puljujärvi could do. I was in no way stating which one of them is better player at the moment. (If you want an answer to that, it's Laine to me, but I don't possess enough data to say by how much.)
It's actually a valid thought, how would things be if their positions had been reversed and Kärpät had won the semifinal series? Had Puljujärvi shined through the finals while Laine rips the U18s apart, would Pulju now be the youngest Finnish player ever to play in the WHCs while Laine sits at home? Who knows. Sometimes it could indeed be that things are left like this, for chance to decide. The fact remains however that at the end of it all, Jalonen did have more data about Laine's prowess in tough, competitive games than he did of Puljujärvi.
And while you keep telling yourself "it was because of his injuries", consider this: When has a player, of any age, been picked without zero men's NT games, zero NHL games, or - at the very least - good recent showings from the final series in some European league? Never. Only thing Puljujärvi had riding for him was that he was the media sweetheart, and by that extension, hot commodity among bar corner scouts.
When the time came to pick the team, Jalonen could somewhat comfortably tell what Laine could do, while Puljujärvi was more of an open question. That's it. Whether that was because of chance or because Jalonen was willingly ignoring Pulju does not really even interest me, I consider that semantics, but that is and was the dealbreaker between him and Laine. Perhaps undeservedly, but c'est la vie. With all these NHL additions flowing in, to me it looks like they would have had no room for more than one of 'em anyway.
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Sorry to say but Marjamäki failed quite miserably with handling Kärpät in this season's most decisive games. Seems that he has more and more become this overly managing ice chess playing coach who easily chokes himself and his team.
Kärpät played really horrible and way too defensive style and passive hockey for the whole season. Miserable failiar with that kind of material. I watched most of Kärpät games for the whole season. And can honestly say that with this kind of playing style and managing they would have been in serious troubles in the regular season, unless they were lucky to have such wonderfully talented youngsters as Aho and Pulju. They both were the teams most productive players after WJC and without their great productivity, Kärpät would have lost a big number of games in the latter half of the season. It was horrible to watch Kärpät games except when Aho and Pulju were on the ice.
It was pure stupidity breaking the power play setup with Pulju and Aho in the first power play just after it was working like a dream in the end of the regular season and the beginning of the playoffs. Marjamäki had no clear reason for doing it, as the previous setup worked really well. And the setups he made after it were really miserable.
Marjamäki being the next Finnish national team coach does not make him by any means "untouchable". It makes me in fact very worried for the future of our national team, as I have seen very alarming signs of him becoming an over calculating coach that wants to play overly safely in everything.
I really thought of him much more positively a few years ago when Marjamäki seemed like an unprejudiced and courageous young coach. The "development" that happened to him during the last two years makes me really sad and worried. I hope by some miracle he would still get somekind of a wake up call.
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Plural
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The fact that he had no "clear" reason to us does not equate to having no reason at all. Let's keep in mind that he saw far more than any of us.
Does that give us the right to think he could do no foul? No. But it does not give us a the right to think he was wrong either. We discussed this before. We don't have the whole picture.
NHL stars like Pihlström, or maybe Sallinen, or Koskiranta? Say whatever you like, but you don't know any better the real reasons why everything went how it went. You didn't even seem to take into account how much Jalonen wanted to emphasize that Pulju was still in considerations until the last moments. If he was left out for being too immature instead of injuries or fatigue, he wouldn't even have been considered at the last moment at all.and as I mentioned already before, Koojii wouldn't keep the door open like that because of pleasing the media or the masses. He just doesn't do that.
Oh and yes, I see Laine at the moment as a better player than Pulju, but not by a very big margin though. Laine has his shot and scoring skills that make him more special at the moment. But Pulju has strengths that could have been easily used in an 3rd line or even a 4th line role. He can skate and check like Pihlström (possibilities for even better checking with his frame). At the same time he would have brought great passing skills and some scoring threat to even the 4th line. Pihlström has nothing else but his skating and checking. He is not even that great as a defensive forward otherwise and for sure he is no use in the offense. Absolutely no use to choose this kind of a player over a player like Pulju. Only injuries or utter stupidity from the coach would explain this. I at least want to believe in the first reason...
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Comprehension, please.
I said "or", not "and". As in, you need at least one of those three - NHL games on your belt, or men's NT games, or some Euro league title in a visible role. No player has ever made it at with at least one of those merits on his resume, and Puljujärvi had none of them. Laine, however, could check two. And there's your difference.Now, what comes to this narrative about Jalonen saying "Pulju has a chance", did you actually watch him when he said this, or just read the comments from the story that was written? Because to me, it was evident that he looked very disinterested, at times even annoyed, when he was asked about it. To me, it was very evident that Pulju really had no chance. And dodging the question rather than outright squashing it is something coaches do all the time when they wish to avoid the media torrent and all the other distractions that come with it.
And what KJ may or may not have done in front of the media before he took on the job as the NT head coach is largely irrelevant, since the holder of said post is far more exposed to the public eye than ever before. It's in fact incredibly naive to think it does not change the way a man goes about his business in front of the camera. It sure added a chip on the shoulder to both J.Jalonen and Erkka. The former became more and more curt the longer he was on the job, and the latter's quip about the "Muppet show" is still one of his most-quoted remarks. And how much has it possibly affected KJ? Well, let's keep in mind that he decided to quit before having spent two full seasons on the job...
The writing's all over the wall.
QnebO
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Puljujärvi wouldn't have been out of place in the WHC. He was solid in Playoffs, almost PPG, too.
It's not that he wouldn't be good enough for that level yet, even though some claim so.
It is simply that he didin't fit the roster, because there were available options that are currently better. He was one of the options. He will soon be better than most of our players. He might play some NHL as soon as next season.
It's not that he wouldn't be good enough for that level yet, even though some claim so.
It is simply that he didin't fit the roster, because there were available options that are currently better. He was one of the options. He will soon be better than most of our players. He might play some NHL as soon as next season.
QnebO
Wheel, snipe, celly
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Guessing yes but probably lines haven't been published. Might get better multiplier now than after they publish the lines? USA lines are very, very weak on paper so if you get nice multiplier for Finland, i'd bet.
Jukka Jalonen and Antti Törmänen are among those claimants. When you add to that Marjamäki's mysterious "mishandling" of Pulju in the playoffs and KJ being rather unenthusiasted about him, is it really so difficult to fathom they simply didn't see the same things in him than they saw, f.ex in Laine? Or Aho? Because that's a whole lot of Finnish coaching muscle disagreeing with the "public opinion".
There is zero doubt about these things. But "soon" is not "now".
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