2016 LA Kings Offseason GDT V: Free Agent Frenzy

[KopitarFAN]

some ELC can carry so many bonues the cap hit is over $3M. Would he not be inline for that?

Sure, but like Chicago with Panarin, they didn't need space for potential bonuses in that year, it can just carry over to the next year.

 

[YP44]

Sure, but like Chicago with Panarin, they didn't need space for potential bonuses in that year, it can just carry over to the next year.

you mean when every penny will need to be used to re-sign Toffoli

 

[lexlavender]

With all of these depth signings, it's clear to me that we're gearing up to trade someone like King or Clifford later in the summer. It's clear that DL is trying to retool how are Bottom lines work, get more speed and scoring.

 

[KopitarFAN]

you mean when every penny will need to be used to re-sign Toffoli

I'm not saying he is legitimately an option for the Kings (it is known that he wants to stay on the east coast, among other issues), I was simply responding to the previous post making it sound like he is a true UFA that can be offered as much as say Steven Stamkos. (obvious hyperbole, but you get the idea)

 

[YP44]

With all of these depth signings, it's clear to me that we're gearing up to trade someone like King or Clifford later in the summer. It's clear that DL is trying to retool how are Bottom lines work, get more speed and scoring.

too bad McTavish still ins't a GM..he was big on clifford

 

[Omni Owl]

The defense is not built on Scuderi/Greene/Gilbert it is built on Doughty, Muzzin, Martinez.

Gilbert is not top 4 stop gaps (maybe the hope was Ehrhoff would have been) they are brought in to solidify the bottom pair and move up in case of injury.

I have asked repeatedly, what in-division team has a better D then LA?

Easily the Sharks. Potentially the Ducks too, but I'm expecting them to trade Fowler for a winger.

 

[YP44]

Easily the Sharks. Potentially the Ducks too, but I'm expecting them to trade Fowler for a winger.

So at worst 3rd in the pacific = garbage?

 

[Omni Owl]

I never said our D was garbage, I just think McNabb is

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Easily the Sharks. Potentially the Ducks too, but I'm expecting them to trade Fowler for a winger.

Debatable. Though they certainly have established depth now. But no one was saying anything of the sort until Burns turned superhuman after the first 1/3 of the season last year.

Doughty > Burns
Vlasic slightly > Muzzin
Martin = Martinez (Martin was another guy playing out of his mind)
Braun > McNabb (Braun IS super underrated)
Anything left > Dillon
Demelo shows a lot of promise but it's not a stretch putting Gravel or Forbort over him.

Even so, the point is our D isn't 'garbage' it's EASILY top-3 in the division and not a stretch to put it #1. The deficiencies were magnified by a fantastic Sharks team on top of their game, Martinez hurt, Doughty taking stupid pills, and Schenn/Scuderi logging major ice time.

 

[as15]

Debatable. Though they certainly have established depth now. But no one was saying anything of the sort until Burns turned superhuman after the first 1/3 of the season last year.

Doughty > Burns
Vlasic slightly > Muzzin
Martin = Martinez (Martin was another guy playing out of his mind)
Braun > McNabb (Braun IS super underrated)
Anything left > Dillon
Demelo shows a lot of promise but it's not a stretch putting Gravel or Forbort over him.

Even so, the point is our D isn't 'garbage' it's EASILY top-3 in the division and not a stretch to put it #1. The deficiencies were magnified by a fantastic Sharks team on top of their game, Martinez hurt, Doughty taking stupid pills, and Schenn/Scuderi logging major ice time.

Way more than "slightly". Vlasic is a top 5 defensive dman that produces at a similar offensive rate as Muzzin. This year aside, Vlasic is the Shark's #1 dman.

 

[lexlavender]

Way more than "slightly". Vlasic is a top 5 defensive dman that produces at a similar offensive rate as Muzzin. This year aside, Vlasic is the Shark's #1 dman.

This year was an outlier on Vlasic's production, he just happened to play on a team with 3 of the top 5/7 point producer's in the league. Vlasic is better defensively, but I'll take Muzzin in shot/point production any day of the week.

 

[damacles1156]

Having Drew Doughty trumps any other D in the division. No other team has a Defender like Doughty.

Doughty is a Generational Defender. How many teams in the entire NHL other than (Ottawa/Chicago) can say they have that ?

Jake Muzzin would be a Number 1 Defender on probably half the NHL teams in the league.

 

[BigKing]

Debatable. Though they certainly have established depth now. But no one was saying anything of the sort until Burns turned superhuman after the first 1/3 of the season last year.

Doughty > Burns
Vlasic slightly > Muzzin
Martin = Martinez (Martin was another guy playing out of his mind)
Braun > McNabb (Braun IS super underrated)
Anything left > Dillon
Demelo shows a lot of promise but it's not a stretch putting Gravel or Forbort over him.

Even so, the point is our D isn't 'garbage' it's EASILY top-3 in the division and not a stretch to put it #1. The deficiencies were magnified by a fantastic Sharks team on top of their game, Martinez hurt, Doughty taking stupid pills, and Schenn/Scuderi logging major ice time.

Overall, the SJ Top 4 is better than the LA Top 4 as a collective.

Tossing "whoever is left" as greater than Dillon and whatever they have left is Kings bias as I'm sure fans of other teams look at the Kings "whoever is left" and say it is trash. Gilbert/Greene/Scuderi/Trotman and two rookies nobody outside LA knows about.

I don't agree with the defense being garbage, it is just extremely top-heavy whereas the Cup teams were much stronger 1-6.

The rookies could blow the doors off which would be absolutely fantastic. As someone who used to pin his hopes for the upcoming season on the lineup injection of Aki Berg, Pavel Rosa, Scott Barney, Jared Aulin, Jon Bernier et al, I don't feel all warm and fuzzy going into the season with a strong 1-6 based on hope. Alec Martinez was a 5-6 on the '12 team and now they can't overcome an injury to him.

It's just not a comfortable place to be. While the defense isn't "garbage" in a vacuum, it is garbage compared to a few seasons ago.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Way more than "slightly". Vlasic is a top 5 defensive dman that produces at a similar offensive rate as Muzzin. This year aside, Vlasic is the Shark's #1 dman.

Since 2013:

Muzzin: 15g, 46a, 61p, .92 P/60. 58.8 CF%, 4.3 relative to team.
Vlasic: 15g, 41a, 56p, .90 P/60. 54.6 CF%, 3.2 rel


That's all 5v5, never mind the power play (Raw production = Muzzin 30g, 91a, 121p vs. Vlasic's 25g, 68a, 93p). And includes Muzzin's rookie and first few years in the league with Vlasic's outlier season and Prime. And this is coming from a guy who has been pumping Vlasic's tires for years. Ignoring the stats and using the eye test, yes, Vlasic is better no question. Vlasic is certainly the superior defensive guy and better d-man, but it's not by that much. Take the 'slightly' off if it makes you feel better. Point overall still stands.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Overall, the SJ Top 4 is better than the LA Top 4 as a collective.

Tossing "whoever is left" as greater than Dillon and whatever they have left is Kings bias as I'm sure fans of other teams look at the Kings "whoever is left" and say it is trash. Gilbert/Greene/Scuderi/Trotman and two rookies nobody outside LA knows about.

I don't agree with the defense being garbage, it is just extremely top-heavy whereas the Cup teams were much stronger 1-6.

The rookies could blow the doors off which would be absolutely fantastic. As someone who used to pin his hopes for the upcoming season on the lineup injection of Aki Berg, Pavel Rosa, Scott Barney, Jared Aulin, Jon Bernier et al, I don't feel all warm and fuzzy going into the season with a strong 1-6 based on hope. Alec Martinez was a 5-6 on the '12 team and now they can't overcome an injury to him.

It's just not a comfortable place to be. While the defense isn't "garbage" in a vacuum, it is garbage compared to a few seasons ago.

I agree with the top boldfaced. I think as constructed with LHD and RHD Wilson did a great job assembling the Sharks' top 4.

I was being tongue-in-cheek about 'whoever is left' but Dillon is garbage and I would easily take Gravel and probably even Trotman over him. He's the guy I watch get victimized over and over and over for the Sharks (Polak nonwithstanding as he doesn't exist now).

I also agree it's not comfortable place to be, but comparing this d-core to 2012 is gonna be a fool's errand as that was a dream d-core. The "Voynov gap" as we've come to lovingly call it is the no-man's-land that seems irreplaceable right now and creates a huge gap between Doughty-Muzzin-Martinez and everyone else. I'm hoping McNabb can be that guy (I think he's right there, but I realize I'm in the minority) but that's still LHD heavy and Martinez has been playing like a trooper but is at a visible disadvantage on his wrong side.

Long story short, my overall point wasn't that the Kings d-core is definitively better than the Sharks at this point in time, it was that it's debatable, and certainly not as terrible as is being suggested. But I think it comes with a fair amount of questions--what does McNabb do for an encore, how do Gravel/Forbort acclimate, what does Gilbert have left in the tank (top 4? 5-6? dead in the water?), what does Trotman do (should be a #7 at this point, may surprise), and what is with Scuderi and Greene? But that's not all that different than all the other 'top' d in the division. Sharks have to wonder who they have in DeMelo, Ducks have to wonder who is on the way out and how to handle Bieksa, etc.

 

[The Night King]

Way more than "slightly". Vlasic is a top 5 defensive dman that produces at a similar offensive rate as Muzzin. This year aside, Vlasic is the Shark's #1 dman.

Well, the difference is the sharks don't have Doughty. No Doughty and Muzzin is LA's #1.

 

[YP44]

Well, the difference is the sharks don't have Doughty. No Doughty and Muzzin is LA's #1.

Do it this way
Doughty>Vlasic
Muzzin=>Burns

 

[Omni Owl]

Sharks D is slightly better, Schlemko was a great depth signing and I think Burns is almost at Doughty's level. He made Doughty look like a bottom pairing defender in that last series. Braun is also heavily underrated. Yeah I know we had one of the best GAA in the regular season, but that went out the ****ing window when the first round started.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Do it this way
Doughty>Vlasic
Muzzin=>Burns

Muzzin isn't as good as Burns.

 

[YP44]

Muzzin isn't as good as Burns.

not offensively, but I like Muzzin defensively over Burns.

I would not deal Muzzin one for one but that's also do to contract

 

[The Tikkanen]

Who is SJ gonna protect from Vegas? If you have a lot of talent on D you're gonna lose a guy.

 

[BigKing]

I agree with the top boldfaced. I think as constructed with LHD and RHD Wilson did a great job assembling the Sharks' top 4.

I was being tongue-in-cheek about 'whoever is left' but Dillon is garbage and I would easily take Gravel and probably even Trotman over him. He's the guy I watch get victimized over and over and over for the Sharks (Polak nonwithstanding as he doesn't exist now).

I also agree it's not comfortable place to be, but comparing this d-core to 2012 is gonna be a fool's errand as that was a dream d-core. The "Voynov gap" as we've come to lovingly call it is the no-man's-land that seems irreplaceable right now and creates a huge gap between Doughty-Muzzin-Martinez and everyone else. I'm hoping McNabb can be that guy (I think he's right there, but I realize I'm in the minority) but that's still LHD heavy and Martinez has been playing like a trooper but is at a visible disadvantage on his wrong side.

Long story short, my overall point wasn't that the Kings d-core is definitively better than the Sharks at this point in time, it was that it's debatable, and certainly not as terrible as is being suggested. But I think it comes with a fair amount of questions--what does McNabb do for an encore, how do Gravel/Forbort acclimate, what does Gilbert have left in the tank (top 4? 5-6? dead in the water?), what does Trotman do (should be a #7 at this point, may surprise), and what is with Scuderi and Greene? But that's not all that different than all the other 'top' d in the division. Sharks have to wonder who they have in DeMelo, Ducks have to wonder who is on the way out and how to handle Bieksa, etc.

My point being that "the defense is garbage" is coming from Kings fans having grown accustomed to actually having a great defense 1-6.

I've watched a lot of Kings hockey. I know a garbage defense when I see one and that is not the case here; however, this fan base went from being happy to make the playoffs to expecting nothing but the Cup in basically the blink of an eye. With that, a defense that has the Norris Trophy winner along with another Team Canada member is now garbage because expectations are higher.

Nobody wants to go back to the pre-2012 days and this is the shakiest looking roster the team has had heading in to the season since 2012. Hyperbole is to message boards what Picasso was to Cubism so here we are with a garbage defense, garbage bottom six and garbage top six.

I will admit to saying numerous times during the playoffs; however, that the defense was trash. I wasn't wrong either because there was no Martinez out there. That's my main problem is that they can't afford an injury to any of 8/6/27 or they are totally ****ed unless the rookies can come in and pull a Voynov.

 

[KopitarFAN]

Who is SJ gonna protect from Vegas? If you have a lot of talent on D you're gonna lose a guy.

Well, using the expansion tool at general fanager, we can assume the following:

Couture
Pavelski
Hertl
Boedker
Burns (assume re-signed)
Vlasic
Martin
Jones

Thornton and Marleau will both be UFAs next summer, and given their age, who knows. If these two should retire, they could protect another defenseman.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

My point being that "the defense is garbage" is coming from Kings fans having grown accustomed to actually having a great defense 1-6.

I've watched a lot of Kings hockey. I know a garbage defense when I see one and that is not the case here; however, this fan base went from being happy to make the playoffs to expecting nothing but the Cup in basically the blink of an eye. With that, a defense that has the Norris Trophy winner along with another Team Canada member is now garbage because expectations are higher.

Nobody wants to go back to the pre-2012 days and this is the shakiest looking roster the team has had heading in to the season since 2012. Hyperbole is to message boards what Picasso was to Cubism so here we are with a garbage defense, garbage bottom six and garbage top six.

I will admit to saying numerous times during the playoffs; however, that the defense was trash. I wasn't wrong either because there was no Martinez out there. That's my main problem is that they can't afford an injury to any of 8/6/27 or they are totally ****ed unless the rookies can come in and pull a Voynov.

Amen to all of that, really.

Sharks D is slightly better, Schlemko was a great depth signing and I think Burns is almost at Doughty's level. He made Doughty look like a bottom pairing defender in that last series. Braun is also heavily underrated. Yeah I know we had one of the best GAA in the regular season, but that went out the ****ing window when the first round started.

Yeah forgot about Schelmko, you're right, that's a fantastic signing.

Burns wishes he could hold Doughty's jockstrap. 80 games of great play from Burns doesn't invalidate a decade worth of inconsistency at best and liability at worst (Hell, SHARKS fans were calling him a problem and liability as recently as game 20 of last season!). If he's this guy going forward great, but I really, really doubt it. I mean, Trevor ****ing Lewis toedragged him for a goal if we're thinking about the playoffs and that 5 game sample size...

 

[lexlavender]

Sharks D is slightly better, Schlemko was a great depth signing and I think Burns is almost at Doughty's level. He made Doughty look like a bottom pairing defender in that last series. Braun is also heavily underrated. Yeah I know we had one of the best GAA in the regular season, but that went out the ****ing window when the first round started.

The reason we got outclassed is because we had effectively two below replacement players in Schenn and Scuderi (with Scuderi on the top pairing ) and a replacement player in McBain. Our D will look better simply by having 2 or all 3 of those people out of the line-up.