Line Combos: 2016-17 Line Combinations

[trenton1]

Since the GDT isn't quite open yet




Morrow, Heinen, Acciari return

Colin, Blidh, Hayes out, Schaller returns to his rightful 4th line.

I would swap Moore and Nash. Moore is much more capable on a line with some skill involved and much more fit to play 12+ minutes than Nash.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Czarnik ---at his size--- either needs to produce consistently or be off this team.

He may be a great guy and he certainly hustles, but when you are that size in the NHL you have one option and that is to produce early and often.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

Czarnik ---at his size--- either needs to produce consistently or be off this team.

He may be a great guy and he certainly hustles, but when you are that size in the NHL you have one option and that is to produce early and often.

Marchand didn't produce early and often. Czarnik is really good at making quick decisions with the puck. He works hard. Skates well. And it's his first year. I'd hate to see him out of the lineup. Especially if one of the reasons was size.

 

[wintersej]

In highly sheltered zone starts, when Colin Miller is on the ice, the Bruins score only 37.5% of the goals. When Morrow is on the ice, it's a Jimmy Hayes-esque 28.6%.

I can't believe Claude isn't playing these clear star caliber players! He is a bum!

Look, both those guys have shown flashes and both have had good games. Both guys are either extremely unlucky, or maybe have some things they are still working on in the defensive zone.

 

[wintersej]

Excited to see Heinen after having some success in the AHL. Perhaps he will come out of the gate with more confidence this time around.

 

[Estlin]

Seems to me Morrow/KMiller pairing has always been a nightmare.

But ours is never to question the wisdom of Claude Julien, including his lineup choices, right?

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

But ours is never to question the wisdom of Claude Julien, including his lineup choices, right?

Well, it was only the morning skate.

Rarely are those lineups perfect. We'll see.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I would swap Moore and Nash. Moore is much more capable on a line with some skill involved and much more fit to play 12+ minutes than Nash.

What makes you say that?

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

In highly sheltered zone starts, when Colin Miller is on the ice, the Bruins score only 37.5% of the goals. When Morrow is on the ice, it's a Jimmy Hayes-esque 28.6%.

I can't believe Claude isn't playing these clear star caliber players! He is a bum!

Look, both those guys have shown flashes and both have had good games. Both guys are either extremely unlucky, or maybe have some things they are still working on in the defensive zone.

To me, it still comes down to the fact that we know Adam McQuaid doesn't have the talent to be a top 4 defenseman (I'd argue top 6, but whatever). I'm not ready to admit yet that Colin and Morrow will never get there.

I like that we're giving Heinen another shot even though he clearly wasn't ready the first time around. I like that we're sticking with Czarnik and I think he's improving a lot. I wish McQuaid were up in the box with Hayes tonight.

 

[Mpasta]

Marchand didn't produce early and often. Czarnik is really good at making quick decisions with the puck. He works hard. Skates well. And it's his first year. I'd hate to see him out of the lineup. Especially if one of the reasons was size.

"I don't like Marshmont, I don't understand Marshmont, I don't even know why he's on the team." -Rick from Natick

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Marchand didn't produce early and often. Czarnik is really good at making quick decisions with the puck. He works hard. Skates well. And it's his first year. I'd hate to see him out of the lineup. Especially if one of the reasons was size.

I like Czarnik, and I would have him in over Hayes (one is our smallest and one is our largest forward, so I don't care too much about size in that respect) but it doesn't matter how much we like him, he has not established anything in the NHL yet and needs to do so to stay up. Actually, Marchand's rookie season (20 games) saw him sent down mid-November and come back up in mid-March (if I remember right). We may see something similar out of Czarnik if he doesn't get going.


At the same age, Marchand had 20+20/40pts while Czarnik is on pace for 20pts in 82 games.

Czarnik has 1pt in the last 10 games and is a -3.

I'm sorry, but that is not good enough for a guy his size; what I mean by that is that he isn't a crash and bang, energy 4th liner like Acciari, who can put up bad numbers on the 4th line but be more effective (like Marchand in 2010) by being chippy, winning (more) board battles and throwing his body around. At 160pds, nobody cares if Czarnik throws his body around --so he has to produce on the score board. I hope that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings (because I think we all like the player, the skill and effort he brings) but it is the truth.

 

[BruinDust]

I like Czarnik, and I would have him in over Hayes (one is our smallest and one is our largest forward, so I don't care too much about size in that respect) but it doesn't matter how much we like him, he has not established anything in the NHL yet and needs to do so to stay up. Actually, Marchand's rookie season (20 games) saw him sent down mid-November and come back up in mid-March (if I remember right). We may see something similar out of Czarnik if he doesn't get going.


At the same age, Marchand had 20+20/40pts while Czarnik is on pace for 20pts in 82 games.

Czarnik has 1pt in the last 10 games and is a -3.

I'm sorry, but that is not good enough for a guy his size; what I mean by that is that he isn't a crash and bang, energy 4th liner like Acciari, who can put up bad numbers on the 4th line but be more effective (like Marchand in 2010) by being chippy, winning (more) board battles and throwing his body around. At 160pds, nobody cares if Czarnik throws his body around --so he has to produce on the score board. I hope that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings (because I think we all like the player, the skill and effort he brings) but it is the truth.

I'm not sure if you really can compare Marchand and Czarnik at the same age.

But if you compare their rookie seasons (Marchand's in 2009-10), there are really no similarities. Marchand went pointless after his 1st a game of that season in October his next 19 games over two stints (your right about the last season call-up in March). Czarnik, while not perfect, is having a more effective rookie season than Marchand did. Marchand was so not effective that year, that when the Bruins were stuck with injuries in the series vs. Philly, they called up Trent Whitfield to play rather than Marchand who had finished out the regular season on the team.

But if you compare the following year, Czarnik can't hold a candle to Marchand.

I like Acciari, but I don't care how many hits he makes, he treats the puck like a hand grenade, can't make a play to save his life, and has no business in this line-up over Czarnik. You say for a small guy Czarnik doesn't bring enough, you may be right, but the answer isn't play Acciari more or in place of Czarnik.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

I'm not sure if you really can compare Marchand and Czarnik at the same age.

But if you compare their rookie seasons (Marchand's in 2009-10), there are really no similarities. Marchand went pointless after his 1st a game of that season in October his next 19 games over two stints (your right about the last season call-up in March). Czarnik, while not perfect, is having a more effective rookie season than Marchand did. Marchand was so not effective that year, that when the Bruins were stuck with injuries in the series vs. Philly, they called up Trent Whitfield to play rather than Marchand who had finished out the regular season on the team.

But if you compare the following year, Czarnik can't hold a candle to Marchand.

I like Acciari, but I don't care how many hits he makes, he treats the puck like a hand grenade, can't make a play to save his life, and has no business in this line-up over Czarnik. You say for a small guy Czarnik doesn't bring enough, you may be right, but the answer isn't play Acciari more or in place of Czarnik.

Agreed. I'm not making the case for Acciari, I'm saying Czarnik needs to do something... and soon.

Heinen today, Vatrano soon. Cehlarik overdue... all of those guys need top 9 time and Czar *at his size doesn't make sense in a more limited 4th line energy role.

 

[BruinDust]

Agreed. I'm not making the case for Acciari, I'm saying Czarnik needs to do something... and soon.

Heinen today, Vatrano soon. Cehlarik overdue... all of those guys need top 9 time and Czar *at his size doesn't make sense in a more limited 4th line energy role.

I'd like to see Cehlarik get his chance (4th in GPG among AHL guys with 9-11 goals scored).

One thing I will say about Czarnik, and while I agree on a 4th line designed to bring forechecking and energy, he's not the ideal guy.

But the fact he can play the PP, but more importantly, is trusted enough to kill penalties, does give him a bit more value to this team despite his limited size. At least he's not a small player that if the Bruins get in penalty trouble, all of sudden is going to find himself out of the game.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

I like Czarnik, and I would have him in over Hayes (one is our smallest and one is our largest forward, so I don't care too much about size in that respect) but it doesn't matter how much we like him, he has not established anything in the NHL yet and needs to do so to stay up. Actually, Marchand's rookie season (20 games) saw him sent down mid-November and come back up in mid-March (if I remember right). We may see something similar out of Czarnik if he doesn't get going.


At the same age, Marchand had 20+20/40pts while Czarnik is on pace for 20pts in 82 games.

Czarnik has 1pt in the last 10 games and is a -3.

I'm sorry, but that is not good enough for a guy his size; what I mean by that is that he isn't a crash and bang, energy 4th liner like Acciari, who can put up bad numbers on the 4th line but be more effective (like Marchand in 2010) by being chippy, winning (more) board battles and throwing his body around. At 160pds, nobody cares if Czarnik throws his body around --so he has to produce on the score board. I hope that doesn't hurt anyone's feelings (because I think we all like the player, the skill and effort he brings) but it is the truth.

Point production is a lousy way to judge the progress of a rookie like Czarnik when he's playing on a line centered by Riley Nash. He's making smart plays. He's doing the right thing more often than not. He's not hurting us. And he's improving. If he were playing with Marchand and Bergeron and not producing, I'd be fine saying it's time for a demotion (whether that be to the 3rd line or to Providence), but he's doing fine in a 3rd line role.

I also apparently care way less about "energy" guys than you do. If "energy" is what makes a player effective in terms of gaining and maintaining possession, great. But I would never want an "energy" player to play over someone who's a better hockey player.

 

[rocketdan9]

Lines need to change asap. Breakup the 1st line. Might not make sense but balance is required right now

Marchand bergeron krejci
Czarnik backes pasta
Schaller Spooner ?
Acciari Moore nash

Chara Carlo
Krug morrow
K miller c Miller

Bench mcquaid

 

[BruinDust]

Thank goodness the terribleness that is Colin Miller was scratched tonight vs. the Leafs. He does nothing to help the offense and is a total liability in his own end. Case in point, the Bruins 4-1 trashing over the Leafs tonight. Kevan and McQuaid completely shut down Matthews and Marner with their stout defensive games, and got the Bruins offense going with sharp tape-to-tape passing and quality point shots. Never would of happened with the awful Colin Miller in the line-up.

 

[toasterjam]

In highly sheltered zone starts, when Colin Miller is on the ice, the Bruins score only 37.5% of the goals. When Morrow is on the ice, it's a Jimmy Hayes-esque 28.6%.

I can't believe Claude isn't playing these clear star caliber players! He is a bum!

Look, both those guys have shown flashes and both have had good games. Both guys are either extremely unlucky, or maybe have some things they are still working on in the defensive zone.

both C.Miller and Morrow DO need to do a lot of work on their D game and utilizing their offensive skills..I think we can all agree both D do have the potential skillset to be good offensive d-men...They need to both work on their game...which they should probably be doing on the ice at this point and not from the press box.

Since we are posting about offensive numbers from our D..can you post about any offensive numbers on K.Miller and Mcquaid? How are they doing in the offensive categories?

Im sure their offensive numbers are stunning

So glad Clode is playing these clear star caliber D players, Clode is a genius!!!




and no I dont actually expect offense from K.Miller/Mcquaid...I know that isnt the kind of game they are expected to bring.
Morrow and C.miller in the line up isn't gonna magically fix our offense issues, I think we all get that too...but at least they have the skillset...the potential...to maybe develop into something..and maybe they dont. We won't know if we dont ever give them consistent minutes. Shuffling them in and out of line ups I'm not sure is the best method...again Im not a coach and have no experience in player development. It's not easy developing young D..not all of them can be studs like Carlo.

But I do know what Mcquaid and K.Miller bring..and well..that is zero offense.

 

[BruinDust]

In highly sheltered zone starts, when Colin Miller is on the ice, the Bruins score only 37.5% of the goals. When Morrow is on the ice, it's a Jimmy Hayes-esque 28.6%.

I can't believe Claude isn't playing these clear star caliber players! He is a bum!

Look, both those guys have shown flashes and both have had good games. Both guys are either extremely unlucky, or maybe have some things they are still working on in the defensive zone.

WTF does that even mean.

And if your going to toss out this stat (whatever it is), try at least including the rest of the D-men on the team to give it some context.

Sure seems like another one of those BS advanced stats that mean absolutely nothing.

 

[toasterjam]

WTF does that even mean.

And if your going to toss out this stat (whatever it is), try at least including the rest of the D-men on the team to give it some context.

Sure seems like another one of those BS advanced stats that mean absolutely nothing.

it's a pretty odd stat...judging only by the eye ball test though, C.Miller/Morrow seem to move the puck a lot better to the forwards than Mcquaid/K.Miller.

Their transition game seems better, skating game seems better...I've seen both guys use their skating to get the puck out of the zone quick and out of danger.

but all 4 of them haven't played that great and have their weaknesses and could play better.

It's just we already know what Mcquaid and K.Miller are and I'm still not entirely sure what both Morrow and C.Miller are...not completely sold on either one too.

Morrow looked solid tonight in the leafs loss though..but I'm sure his "percent of when the bruins score from highly sheltered zone start" numbers don't look all that good though.

Again just eyeball test, no fancy stats to back it up.

I think you'd be really hard pressed to find anyone here who doesnt think C.Miller/Morrow need to work on their defensive zone game.

 

[BruinDust]

it's a pretty odd stat...judging only by the eye ball test though, C.Miller/Morrow seem to move the puck a lot better to the forwards than Mcquaid/K.Miller.

Their transition game seems better, skating game seems better...I've seen both guys use their skating to get the puck out of the zone quick and out of danger.

but all 4 of them haven't played that great and have their weaknesses and could play better.

It's just we already know what Mcquaid and K.Miller are and I'm still not entirely sure what both Morrow and C.Miller are...not completely sold on either one too.

Morrow looked solid tonight in the leafs loss though..but I'm sure his "percent of when the bruins score from highly sheltered zone start" numbers don't look all that good though.

Again just eyeball test, no fancy stats to back it up.

I think you'd be really hard pressed to find anyone here who doesnt think C.Miller/Morrow need to work on their defensive zone game.

I assume the way it is worded I don't get what it Wintersg is trying to convey.

i don't think any of Morrow/Colin/Kevan/McQuaid are perfect D-men.

Morrow and Colin are weaker executing Julien's bend-don't-break defensive zone system, but are stronger at getting the puck out of the zone, especially with the Bruins maintain possession of the puck with speed.

Kevan and McQuaid are better at executing Julien's defensive zone system, but are weaker at getting the puck out of the zone, especially with the Bruins maintain possession of the puck with speed.

That's the comparison in a nutshell, eyeball test style.

Personally, I believe getting the puck out of your zone quickly and consistently, while maintaining possession, and allowing your forwards to maintain speed through the neutral zone, results in easier offensive zone entries, and has a greater overall impact on the game. Hard to get scored on when the puck isn't in your zone.

Conversely, even the best defensive D-men will get scored on eventually if they spend significant amounts of time in their own zone defending, and if they do obtain puck possession, give up that position quickly, and often don't exit the zone at all. Which increases fatigue, which impacts the entire group caught out on the ice defending throughout the whole game.

This is essentially where I have the philosophical divide with Claude. I believe more puck-movement/transition/possession on the back end is the key in today's NHL. Now true, I still want a couple of big strong guys as well, I don't want 6 Torey Krugs. But they have Chara, they have Carlo. One more defensive type, I don't like but I can live with. But two, completely unnecessary. Claude seems to prefer the opposite, if he has big strong defensive types, use as many as he has at his disposal.

But I agree 100% with Claude on what is required of an NHL center in 2017, and that is sound two-way play and being adept in your own zone, especially down around the net, behind the net, and in the low-to-mid slot. Hence, I have zero problem with Spooner on the wing where he isn't as much of a defensive liability.

So this is why I get infuriated when I see Chara and Carlo, and McQuaid, AND Kevan Miller all in the line-up at the same time.

And why I get infuriated when he has a former Selke center in Backes, continually using him on the RW of Krejci who he has zero chemistry. with. Instead, we get a healthy dose of zero-zone JAG Riley Nash centering a failing 3rd line, just so Julien can fulfill the requirement for defensively responsible centers up and down the line-up.

 

[Ten Thousand Hours]

WTF does that even mean.

And if your going to toss out this stat (whatever it is), try at least including the rest of the D-men on the team to give it some context.

Sure seems like another one of those BS advanced stats that mean absolutely nothing.

It's not an advanced stat. It's just +/- but with percentages instead of directional numbers. If a player is a minus, he'd be below 50% the way he phrased that. But that obviously means it has all the same flaws as +/-, which for good reason, is hardly ever cited as a useful statistic anymore.

 

[Pia8988]

Sorry over 3 games. It hasn't been good. In fact Ugly.

Those stats still aren't right.

12/05 - 12/08
Krecji - +1, -2, -3 = -4
Backes - +0, -2, -3 = -5

 

[wintersej]

It's not an advanced stat. It's just +/- but with percentages instead of directional numbers. If a player is a minus, he'd be below 50% the way he phrased that. But that obviously means it has all the same flaws as +/-, which for good reason, is hardly ever cited as a useful statistic anymore.

Yes, just +/- scaled by % instead of raw numbers. If there are 10 goals scored, Colin/Morrow have been on a pace where the Bruins score 3 and give up 7.

 

[wintersej]

When the Morrow/Colin are on the ice the Bruins have good Corsi.

When Morrow/Colin are on the ice the Bruins score fewer goals per minute than when Chara, Carlo, Kevan, McQuaid, Krug and Liles are on the ice.

So to me, it looks like Morrow/Colin are suffering from a more extreme case of what the whole team is suffering... good shot prevention, lots of rubber on net, no goals.

Which two of McQuaid, Morrow and Colin is going to be playing in a given game is not why the Bruins are not scoring goals.

I'd prefer Morrow/Colin for all the obvious reasons listed, too. But, let's be clear, on a team that has to win 2-1 because there is no secondary scoring, picking a McQuaid instead of one of the kids is more than defensible.

The Bruins problem is that they have 4th liners on the 2nd line. They have 4th liners on the 3rd line. And they have 4th liners on the 4th line. Spooner and Beleksey should be 3rd liners but are playing like crap.