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Blue Jays GDT: (2015 v39) Next: vs NYY| Mon, Sept 21| 7pm ET/4pm PT| Warren vs Price

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Leafsdude7

Leafsdude7

Stand-Up Philosopher
Mar 26, 2011
23,135
1,214
Ontario
Acoustic said:
I don't think Gibbons is a good manager, that's my personal opinion, we are all Jays fans though, so if you think Gibbons is good, that's cool. Let's all be friends.
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Just realize that your personal opinion is clouding your judgement of all his moves before he even makes them.

You have a confirmation bias which is shown when your reaction to the Jays having a top-5 bullpen is to claim the bullpen then must just have a whole bunch of great pitchers.
 
Eyedea

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
Acoustic said:
They weren't good.
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So then Gibbons must have been some kind of manager to get his bullpen to resemble at the very least an average one.

If Girardi is such a great manager, why has his bullpen been (slightly) worse over the 2nd half? They have arguably the best trio in baseball with Miller/Betances/Wilson.
 
Acoustic

Acoustic

Registered User
Sep 29, 2014
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Leafsdude7 said:
Just realize that your personal opinion is clouding your judgement of all his moves before he even makes them.

You have a confirmation bias which is shown when your reaction to the Jays having a top-5 bullpen is to claim the bullpen then must just have a whole bunch of great pitchers.
Click to expand...

The Jays have a good bullpen this season.

Bullpens are funny thing, relievers and closers are funny pitchers, and are never a sure bet. What is a good reliever? Who is a good closer season to season? I think the Pen has been great since july. I don't think Gibbons manages the game well, and that goes with managing the Pen. His strategy to me seems to be to try and have a pitcher go for a full inning rather than manage to the game as it unfolds. His go to was Sanchez-Osuna when the Jays were killing it and he's trying to do the same thing in tight games when the Jays aren't as hot and it's not working.

See how often a manager/pitching coach will come out during a game to talk things over and slow the game down vs how many times Gibbons/Jays coach does. Just observe.

Like I said, I have my opinion, and you have yours. You want to keep attacking it, go ahead. I just don't think Gibbons is that great.
 
Eyedea

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
Acoustic said:
The Jays have a good bullpen this season.

Bullpens are funny thing, relievers and closers are funny pitchers, and are never a sure bet. What is a good reliever? Who is a good closer season to season? I think the Pen has been great since july. I don't think Gibbons manages the game well, and that goes with managing the Pen. His strategy to me seems to be to try and have a pitcher go for a full inning rather than manage to the game as it unfolds. His go to was Sanchez-Osuna when the Jays were killing it and he's trying to do the same thing in tight games when the Jays aren't as hot and it's not working.

See how often a manager/pitching coach will come out during a game to talk things over and slow the game down vs how many times Gibbons/Jays coach does. Just observe.

Like I said, I have my opinion, and you have yours. You want to keep attacking it, go ahead. I just don't think Gibbons is that great.
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He wasn't putting Sanchez-Osuna out there in blowouts, unless of course they were fully rested and needed work.
 
Acoustic

Acoustic

Registered User
Sep 29, 2014
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Eyedea said:
So then Gibbons must have been some kind of manager to get his bullpen to resemble at the very least an average one.

If Girardi is such a great manager, why has his bullpen been (slightly) worse over the 2nd half? They have arguably the best trio in baseball with Miller/Betances/Wilson.
Click to expand...

Well you should know you can only use relief pitchers so much, smart guy.
 
The Nemesis

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
89,626
34,638
Langley, BC
Eyedea said:
So then Gibbons must have been some kind of manager to get his bullpen to resemble at the very least an average one.

If Girardi is such a great manager, why has his bullpen been (slightly) worse over the 2nd half? They have arguably the best trio in baseball with Miller/Betances/Wilson.
Click to expand...



Reverse Yankee Pinstripe Emotionâ„¢

It's because A-Rod isn't a True Yankee and his presence on the roster causes other people not to rise to the occasion like they would've under Jeter. :sarcasm:
 
TootooTrain

TootooTrain

Sandpaper
Jun 12, 2010
35,517
477
Acoustic said:
The Jays have a good bullpen this season.

Bullpens are funny thing, relievers and closers are funny pitchers, and are never a sure bet. What is a good reliever? Who is a good closer season to season? I think the Pen has been great since july. I don't think Gibbons manages the game well, and that goes with managing the Pen. His strategy to me seems to be to try and have a pitcher go for a full inning rather than manage to the game as it unfolds. His go to was Sanchez-Osuna when the Jays were killing it and he's trying to do the same thing in tight games when the Jays aren't as hot and it's not working.

See how often a manager/pitching coach will come out during a game to talk things over and slow the game down vs how many times Gibbons/Jays coach does. Just observe.

Like I said, I have my opinion, and you have yours. You want to keep attacking it, go ahead. I just don't think Gibbons is that great.
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That usually only happens when there's a noticeable struggle and the pitcher needs a rest. Rarely do managers do it just to "slow the game down".

Lefties aside, starting an inning clean and going through 3 batters is the ideal scenario. Doing more on a consistent basis seems like micro-managing and burning a reliever (including warm up) for one or two batters is wasteful to me.
 
Acoustic

Acoustic

Registered User
Sep 29, 2014
2,161
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Eyedea said:
So are you even going to try and provide reasoning as to why Girardi is a better manager or are you just going to attempt to belittle me?
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I have a different opinon and I'm getting attacked, and could care less, but you're going to try playing the victim?

How's the Yankees line up vs the Jays line up? How the hell are the Yankees keeping pace with the Jays? They just went 2/3 vs the Mets. The team seems to be doing something right, and are playing above themselves, IMO, and I attribute that a lot to Girardi's game by game management. I don't have stats out my ass to back that up, and neither does anyone here to rebut me it seems, but like I said, this is my OPINION, so best you guys look up what that means, and let it go.

Sorry, so sorry for having a different opinion though. Message boards. :laugh:
 
Longshot

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
Acoustic said:
4 of 6 games this month he's put him in with 4 runs or more...
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Do you even realize that this month the Jays have played only four close games? All the rest were blow outs or leads in excess of three runs.

If Gibbons limited his best pitchers to only close games/save situations they would have barely have pitched this month.

He used them in those games to make sure they were getting regular work.

Edit: Five close game. I forgot the second game of the double header.
 
Longshot

Longshot

Registered User
Jul 2, 2008
11,161
312
Ontario, Canada
Acoustic said:
I have a different opinon and I'm getting attacked, and could care less, but you're going to try playing the victim?

How's the Yankees line up vs the Jays line up? How the hell are the Yankees keeping pace with the Jays? They just went 2/3 vs the Mets. The team seems to be doing something right, and are playing above themselves, IMO, and I attribute that a lot to Girardi's game by game management. I don't have stats out my ass to back that up, and neither does anyone here to rebut me it seems, but like I said, this is my OPINION, so best you guys look up what that means, and let it go.

Sorry, so sorry for having a different opinion though. Message boards. :laugh:
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Nobody is attacking you. It's silly for you to keep saying that.

You said you think Gibbons is a bad manager and Girardi is a good manager. When you say something like that expect to be challenged here by other posters.

If if the Yankees are so awesome, what happened to the seven game lead they had on July 31?
 
Eyedea

Eyedea

The Legend Continues
Jan 29, 2012
27,796
3,645
Toronto, Ontario
Acoustic said:
I have a different opinon and I'm getting attacked, and could care less, but you're going to try playing the victim?

How's the Yankees line up vs the Jays line up? How the hell are the Yankees keeping pace with the Jays? They just went 2/3 vs the Mets. The team seems to be doing something right, and are playing above themselves, IMO, and I attribute that a lot to Girardi's game by game management. I don't have stats out my ass to back that up, and neither does anyone here to rebut me it seems, but like I said, this is my OPINION, so best you guys look up what that means, and let it go.

Sorry, so sorry for having a different opinion though. Message boards. :laugh:
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Way to flip it around "smart guy". :laugh:

They have been playing above their *talent level*, but that's because they've had a renaissance of sorts from their vets. They've also had one of the best rotations and bullpens to go along with their offence. Even with that, they're 11-5 against the Jays and saw their division lead evaporate over the course of a couple of weeks.
 
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