Prospect Info: 2014 NHL Draft / Pick #118 - Igor Shestyorkin (G) - Part II

[kovazub94]

Maybe the Rangers will finally build a team the right way then. Building a team from the goalie onwards never works. Elite goalies can't perform like one without a good defense in front of them. Without elite centers contributing to the 200-foot game. This is why I've always had a problem with Lundqvist. Not that he's a bad goalie, but he's paid to do something no goalie in the world can do. When the defense stinks, an elite goalie can't help you. Goalies aren't a priority. They're the punters of the NHL in terms of how much they impact the game.

Out of all positions in hockey, the gap between elite and good is the smallest when it comes to the goalie position

I wholeheartedly disagree. So many examples re. how important goaltending is to success or lack of it.

If Holtby was halfway descent two years ago - Caps would've had two SC already. Pens double SC happened when MAF regained his form and Murray was consistently good. Vegas wouldn't be nearly as good without MAF leading them this past season. Jets finally broke through when they got good goaltending while that team was just as good or very close to it for a couple of seasons. And on and on. How many great regular seasons were ruined by goalies who struggled in playoffs?

To me the difference between elite and good goaltenders is consistency over multiple seasons.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Maybe the Rangers will finally build a team the right way then. Building a team from the goalie onwards never works. Elite goalies can't perform like one without a good defense in front of them. Without elite centers contributing to the 200-foot game. This is why I've always had a problem with Lundqvist. Not that he's a bad goalie, but he's paid to do something no goalie in the world can do. When the defense stinks, an elite goalie can't help you. Goalies aren't a priority. They're the punters of the NHL in terms of how much they impact the game.

Out of all positions in hockey, the gap between elite and good is the smallest when it comes to the goalie position

I don’t know how anyone can say this.

Goaltending is still crazy important, especially in the playoffs. We’ve had our deepest runs because of a massive advantage in net most of the time.

We do need more talent overall, but we’re not going to win anything unless we have a good goalie unless you’re just loaded beyond belief like the 2010 hawks

 

[Profet]

Torts teams not making it past the red line for the entire 3rd period for literally years, etc.

To be fair... those teams also played a 6 goalie system.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I don’t know how anyone can say this.

Goaltending is still crazy important, especially in the playoffs. We’ve had our deepest runs because of a massive advantage in net most of the time.

We do need more talent overall, but we’re not going to win anything unless we have a good goalie unless you’re just loaded beyond belief like the 2010 hawks

I never said it wasn't important. But the difference between an elite and great goalie is smaller than the difference between an elite and great center or D man. Good goalies win the Cup all the time because they have elite players in front of them. Richter is a good example. Fleury won 3 cups that way.

 

[nyr2k2]

Maybe the Rangers will finally build a team the right way then. Building a team from the goalie onwards never works. Elite goalies can't perform like one without a good defense in front of them. Without elite centers contributing to the 200-foot game. This is why I've always had a problem with Lundqvist. Not that he's a bad goalie, but he's paid to do something no goalie in the world can do. When the defense stinks, an elite goalie can't help you. Goalies aren't a priority. They're the punters of the NHL in terms of how much they impact the game.

Out of all positions in hockey, the gap between elite and good is the smallest when it comes to the goalie position

I generally agree with the premise that building from the net out is not the best strategy in the NHL at the moment.

However, I disagree that Lundqvist has been paid to do something that isn't possible, or that an elite goalie can't help you if the defense stinks. The latter part is almost incomprehensibly false, to me. Lundqvist has routinely over the bulk of his career won us games we had no business winning, took us to OT so steal a point in games where we were dominated, and even just kept us in games we didn't really deserve to be close in. He has done this in the playoffs, as well. Unfortunately, he has not been able to do it for an entire playoff season, which is why we have no Cups (part of the reason). But that feat is not impossible--we've seen goalies play lights out for the duration of the playoffs time and time again. So, it's doable--Lundqvist just hasn't done it.

I said earlier that he was part of the reason because I agree with the other points--you need a really good defense and some excellent centers. You can't just rely on the goalie. We have tried (poorly) at addressing the top-tier center issue through free agency over the years with guys like Gomez, Drury and Richards. Stepan played the 200-foot game but lacked the top-end offense. We've had very good defensive corps, even in a system not geared towards defense.

So in general I agree that goalies shouldn't be the focal point of designing a team. I vehemently disagree that an elite goalie cannot help you if your defense sucks. And the analogy between goalies and punters doesn't really warrant a comment.

 

[nyr2k2]

I never said it wasn't important. But the difference between an elite and great goalie is smaller than the difference between an elite and great center or D man. Good goalies win the Cup all the time because they have elite players in front of them. Richter is a good example. Fleury won 3 cups that way.

Yes, you literally said they weren't a priority and compared them to the importance of punters in the NFL, who often get cut after a single bad game. Maybe your intent was to say that they are less of a priority than other positions (which is probably true) but you kinda blew that up with the punter comparison.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I never said it wasn't important. But the difference between an elite and great goalie is smaller than the difference between an elite and great center or D man. Good goalies win the Cup all the time because they have elite players in front of them. Richter is a good example. Fleury won 3 cups that way.

Pens don't get out of the 1st round 2 years ago if not for MAF and Fleury wasn't the starter for cup #2.

The only goalie who has gotten roasted and won the cup in recent history was Niemi, and that was on probably the deepest team to win since the lockout.

 

[kovazub94]

I never said it wasn't important. But the difference between an elite and great goalie is smaller than the difference between an elite and great center or D man. Good goalies win the Cup all the time because they have elite players in front of them. Richter is a good example. Fleury won 3 cups that way.

Good goalies can play at elite level. The difference is that they cannot maintain that level of performance as compared to elite goaltenders.

 

[kovazub94]

Yes, you literally said they weren't a priority and compared them to the importance of punters in the NFL, who often get cut after a single bad game. Maybe your intent was to say that they are less of a priority than other positions (which is probably true) but you kinda blew that up with the punter comparison.

Maybe he meant punters in some Aussie football?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Maybe the Rangers will finally build a team the right way then. Building a team from the goalie onwards never works. Elite goalies can't perform like one without a good defense in front of them. Without elite centers contributing to the 200-foot game. This is why I've always had a problem with Lundqvist. Not that he's a bad goalie, but he's paid to do something no goalie in the world can do. When the defense stinks, an elite goalie can't help you. Goalies aren't a priority. They're the punters of the NHL in terms of how much they impact the game.

Out of all positions in hockey, the gap between elite and good is the smallest when it comes to the goalie position

I'm usually with you, but I can't be on board with your punter claim. A player that gets a handful of snaps in each game. Maybe you're not well versed enough in football.

 

[TGWL]

Hank has a massive massive ego. I’d say I know this from personal friends of friends and I wouldn’t be lying but doesn’t take any inside info to know it. He wears it on his sleeve.

It goes one of two ways either he just can’t accept that he’s not the best anymore and hangs on or he realizes he can’t play at the level he’s accustomed to ala naslund and walks away. Either way it’ll be a real shame having to let Georgiev go for pennies on the dollar to accommodate him otherwise. I’d love to see Geo and Shesterkin battle it out on the same team.

Having said that you move geo this summer you definitely draft Spencer knight with a pick if you ask me.

While he might have an ego, none of what you posted displays that massive ego. So, he should retire early because he's not good anymore? If he still loves to play, that doesn't make a lot of sense. You're basically saying he has an ego because he won't do the NYR organization a solid here. You're upset that we have to accommodate him, but all for him accommodating the NYR.

 

[nyr2k2]

Shesterkin getting the start today against Sochi. Sochi is pretty mediocre, FWIW (not meant as a slight against Shesterkin). SKA should roll them. They have 4 W, 1 OTW, 2 SOL, 1 OTL, and 5 L, because that's the awesome way the KHL tracks wins and losses. They're f***ing 5-8. LOL.

 

[nyr2k2]

While he might have an ego, none of what you posted displays that massive ego. So, he should retire early because he's not good anymore? If he still loves to play, that doesn't make a lot of sense. You're basically saying he has an ego because he won't do the NYR organization a solid here. You're upset that we have to accommodate him, but all for him accommodating the NYR.

This is generally how it works--team turns the screws on a player, it's cool, just business. Player uses whatever leverage he has or exercises his rights, and people complain he's being selfish. I get it, people are loyal to the team, not the player... It's still pretty hypocritical, IMO.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

That should’ve been the end of the streak. Some guy hit the post and then the follow up slowly rolled towards goal but barely missed. Igor was helpless on both shots.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Streak over. Bad defense in front. No chance for Shestyorkin.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Streak over. Bad defense in front. No chance for Shestyorkin.

Welp Hellberg gonna get the next 5 games now

 

[nyr2k2]

He finished stopping 16 of 17 shots.

 

[Joey Bones]

For the ones wanting to trade Lundqvist....

Although Shesty is absolutely killing it in the KHL, there still isn't any guarantee that he'll have the same production coming over. Sure, he looks promising, but business wise and production wise, Lundqvist is in fact the starter. No matter what, the Rangers can't afford to lose him. He's the franchises all time winningest keeper and in the top 10 of the whole league with wins. Georgiev isn't producing at a high level either, even though he, too, looks promising.

He's gonna be with the Rangers until he retires, which honestly isn't a bad thing. You need depth at every situation. There will come a time where all 3, maybe even 4 with Huska, will be pushing for the starter's spot, but within this year and maybe the next 3 years, Lundqvist will be on the squad.

Sorry to burst any of y'alls bubbles....

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Updated stats:

6-0-0
.966 save % (1st)
0.83 GAA (1st)
3 Shutouts (T-1st)

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Complete bum. Can’t be putting up .941 SV’s in games. Only acceptable number is 1.

 

[Edge]

Taking over as Lundqvist heir Shesterkin will be held to an unattainable standard. Those who bemoan Henrik’s performance now will be ripping apart Shesty after his first stretch where he struggles.

I would also agree with this.

I don't think people are going to realize just how much they'll miss Lundqvist until he's gone.

 

[Edge]

Maybe the Rangers will finally build a team the right way then. Building a team from the goalie onwards never works. Elite goalies can't perform like one without a good defense in front of them. Without elite centers contributing to the 200-foot game. This is why I've always had a problem with Lundqvist. Not that he's a bad goalie, but he's paid to do something no goalie in the world can do. When the defense stinks, an elite goalie can't help you. Goalies aren't a priority. They're the punters of the NHL in terms of how much they impact the game.

Out of all positions in hockey, the gap between elite and good is the smallest when it comes to the goalie position

There's also a good amount of truth to this as well.

I still believe it's easier to win with a great team and a good to very good goalie, than it is to win with a great goalie and a team that is only good or very good.

 

[FIRE DRURY]

I don't think people are going to realize just how much they'll miss Lundqvist until he's gone.

As with most things in life, unfortunately.

Except for my x-wife. **** that *****.

 

[egelband]

So Henrik has two more years after this year on his deal. Is the thinking, Shestyorkin backs up next season and Henrik backs up his final year? That makes good sense, I’d say.

 

[Irishguy42]

So Henrik has two more years after this year on his deal. Is the thinking, Shestyorkin backs up next season and Henrik backs up his final year? That makes good sense, I’d say.

In a perfect world, that is the general thinking.

But lots of variables can happen.