2014 Kings vs. 2024 Panthers

[pb1300]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if Florida taking LA to game 6 or 7 is giving way too much credit to Florida simply due to me being happy that Edmonton lost.

While you can match up the forwards reasonably, despite people talking about the Florida second line, the Kings have two 40 goal-capable in their top six. Kopitar can be in the same class as Barkov, big strong guys who play a two way game.

Goaltenders, 2014 Quick vs. 2024 Bobrovsky is close enough.

Defense-wise, however, there is a clear advantage on the Kings side with their top pairing. 2024 playoff Ekblad is maybe in the same class as 2014 Voynov. Both are RHs PMDs. But there is no player at the caliber of 2014 playoff Drew Doughty and the pairing of Doughty/Muzzin is head and shoulders above any pair on Florida.

Also the amount of playoff experience in the core players is much greater, not even counting the 2012 Championship. Mitchell 2011 Final, Richards and Carter 2010 Final, Williams...accomplishments way too long to discuss. Not counting Gagne since he wasn't a core player.

So comparing rosters, 2014 LA is clearly better than 2024 Florida and it's not close.


LA's 2014 playoff opponents:
1st Round: defeated Stanley Cup favorites San Jose in a reverse sweep
This team had a 1C (Thornton), 1W (Pavelski, C playing as W), 2C (Couture), 1D (Vlasic),

2nd Round: defeated SC contender Anaheim
This team had a 1C (Getzlaf), 1W (Perry), 2C (Rackell), 1D (Lindholm), 1G (Gibson)

3rd Round: defeated SC dynasty Chicago in arguably the greatest series in modern hockey
This team had 1C (Toews), 3x 1Ws (Hossa and Kane), 1D (Keith), 1G Crawford and many other standout players like Hjalmarsson and Saad.

Final Round: dominated NYR keeping third period and OT record for a spotless 169:39 shutout minutes, not counting second periods and not counting the shutout game.

All three of these teams ran 4 complete lines and three complete defensive pairings. Those are the teams that the Kings beat in 7, in 2014. Who did Florida face? In the Final they got taken to 7 games by a team that has a mediocre defense and a bad goaltender.


Any measure of regular season stats is meaningless and playoff record without context is disingenuous.

Florida had a great run ending in a highly respectable Cup run. But by no means in any book is this a legendary run. There's a reason why people are still talking about the 2014 Kings

Yes, written as would a Kings fan.

You’re acting like it was sheer luck for the Panthers. It’s not like Florida didn’t have to go through one of the toughest goaltending trios a playoff team has gone through in recent history (Vasi, Swayman, Shesterkin) just to get to the finals. They were the best defensive team in the league, and for all but a handful of games in the playoffs, they were just as good defensively. They had 3 scoring lines and 2 elite defensive lines as well.

It would be a tough nosed series where both teams would be devastated with injuries afterwards, that could go either way. Relax with the whole not even close BS.

 

[dgibb10]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if Florida taking LA to game 6 or 7 is giving way too much credit to Florida simply due to me being happy that Edmonton lost.

While you can match up the forwards reasonably, despite people talking about the Florida second line, the Kings have two 40 goal-capable in their top six. Kopitar can be in the same class as Barkov, big strong guys who play a two way game.

Goaltenders, 2014 Quick vs. 2024 Bobrovsky is close enough.

Defense-wise, however, there is a clear advantage on the Kings side with their top pairing. 2024 playoff Ekblad is maybe in the same class as 2014 Voynov. Both are RHs PMDs. But there is no player at the caliber of 2014 playoff Drew Doughty and the pairing of Doughty/Muzzin is head and shoulders above any pair on Florida.

Also the amount of playoff experience in the core players is much greater, not even counting the 2012 Championship. Mitchell 2011 Final, Richards and Carter 2010 Final, Williams...accomplishments way too long to discuss. Not counting Gagne since he wasn't a core player.

So comparing rosters, 2014 LA is clearly better than 2024 Florida and it's not close.


LA's 2014 playoff opponents:
1st Round: defeated Stanley Cup favorites San Jose in a reverse sweep
This team had a 1C (Thornton), 1W (Pavelski, C playing as W), 2C (Couture), 1D (Vlasic),

2nd Round: defeated SC contender Anaheim
This team had a 1C (Getzlaf), 1W (Perry), 2C (Rackell), 1D (Lindholm), 1G (Gibson)

3rd Round: defeated SC dynasty Chicago in arguably the greatest series in modern hockey
This team had 1C (Toews), 3x 1Ws (Hossa and Kane), 1D (Keith), 1G Crawford and many other standout players like Hjalmarsson and Saad.

Final Round: dominated NYR keeping third period and OT record for a spotless 169:39 shutout minutes, not counting second periods and not counting the shutout game.

All three of these teams ran 4 complete lines and three complete defensive pairings. Those are the teams that the Kings beat in 7, in 2014. Who did Florida face? In the Final they got taken to 7 games by a team that has a mediocre defense and a bad goaltender.


Any measure of regular season stats is meaningless and playoff record without context is disingenuous.

Florida had a great run ending in a highly respectable Cup run. But by no means in any book is this a legendary run. There's a reason why people are still talking about the 2014 Kings

The kings run was memorable/legendary because they went life and death in every playoff series.

Memorable doesn't make them better.

Also John Gibson was a 20 year old with 3 career NHL games under his belt. Let's be real here.

"Not counting second periods". Needing 3 overtimes out of your 4 wins is not dominating.

 

[dgibb10]

While you can match up the forwards reasonably, despite people talking about the Florida second line, the Kings have two 40 goal-capable in their top six. Kopitar can be in the same class as Barkov, big strong guys who play a two way game.

Where are these 2 40 goal forwards?

Are you referring to carter who did it 1 time a half decade as a 40 goal player lmao.

Gaborik was the only player on that kings roster to reach 40 goals in a season (2 years prior to that cup) within the entire 2010 DECADE.

Might as well call Tarasenko a 40 goal scorer for florida while you're at it

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The kings run was memorable/legendary because they went life and death in every playoff series.

Memorable doesn't make them better.

Also John Gibson was a 20 year old with 3 career NHL games under his belt. Let's be real here.

"Not counting second periods". Needing 3 overtimes out of your 4 wins is not dominating.

There's a reason why Kings fans only want to include third periods in OT, because the Rangers outscored them in like 4 of the 5 games in the first two periods and a team trailing virtually the entire series goes against the narrative that they dominated the Rangers. If not for the 2012 Kings, the 2014 Kings wouldn't be viewed as an unstoppable juggernaut that wiped the floor with the Rangers.

 

[Voight]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if Florida taking LA to game 6 or 7 is giving way too much credit to Florida simply due to me being happy that Edmonton lost.

While you can match up the forwards reasonably, despite people talking about the Florida second line, the Kings have two 40 goal-capable in their top six. Kopitar can be in the same class as Barkov, big strong guys who play a two way game.

Goaltenders, 2014 Quick vs. 2024 Bobrovsky is close enough.

Defense-wise, however, there is a clear advantage on the Kings side with their top pairing. 2024 playoff Ekblad is maybe in the same class as 2014 Voynov. Both are RHs PMDs. But there is no player at the caliber of 2014 playoff Drew Doughty and the pairing of Doughty/Muzzin is head and shoulders above any pair on Florida.

Also the amount of playoff experience in the core players is much greater, not even counting the 2012 Championship. Mitchell 2011 Final, Richards and Carter 2010 Final, Williams...accomplishments way too long to discuss. Not counting Gagne since he wasn't a core player.

So comparing rosters, 2014 LA is clearly better than 2024 Florida and it's not close.


LA's 2014 playoff opponents:
1st Round: defeated Stanley Cup favorites San Jose in a reverse sweep
This team had a 1C (Thornton), 1W (Pavelski, C playing as W), 2C (Couture), 1D (Vlasic),

2nd Round: defeated SC contender Anaheim
This team had a 1C (Getzlaf), 1W (Perry), 2C (Rackell), 1D (Lindholm), 1G (Gibson)

3rd Round: defeated SC dynasty Chicago in arguably the greatest series in modern hockey
This team had 1C (Toews), 3x 1Ws (Hossa and Kane), 1D (Keith), 1G Crawford and many other standout players like Hjalmarsson and Saad.

Final Round: dominated NYR keeping third period and OT record for a spotless 169:39 shutout minutes, not counting second periods and not counting the shutout game.

All three of these teams ran 4 complete lines and three complete defensive pairings. Those are the teams that the Kings beat in 7, in 2014. Who did Florida face? In the Final they got taken to 7 games by a team that has a mediocre defense and a bad goaltender.


Any measure of regular season stats is meaningless and playoff record without context is disingenuous.

Florida had a great run ending in a highly respectable Cup run. But by no means in any book is this a legendary run. There's a reason why people are still talking about the 2014 Kings

2014 Blackhawks also had Patrick Sharp, who had his best offensive season that year.

 

[dgibb10]

There's a reason why Kings fans only want to include third periods in OT, because the Rangers outscored them in like 4 of the 5 games in the first two periods and a team trailing virtually the entire series goes against the narrative that they dominated the Rangers. If not for the 2012 Kings, the 2014 Kings wouldn't be viewed as an unstoppable juggernaut that wiped the floor with the Rangers.

If not for Anti Niemi colossal bed shitting, the 2014 kings would be known as a team that got dogwalked in 4 games of the first round.

And boy did they get outplayed in that series.


Kings fans keep asking why it's a criticism when they don't have good regular seasons (12), and criticism when they don't dominate the playoffs (14).

But in order to be viewed among the best of the cup winners, you need to do both at the same time. Every cup winner won a cup.

So the worst regular season teams among them (like the 11-12 kings and 94-95 devils for example) will not be viewed highly even if they run through the playoffs.

And then the 2014 kings were STILL an underwhelming regular season team compared to most cup winners, and then followed it up with arguably the least dominant postseason of any cup winners, losing 10 games along the way and needing 5 of their 16 wins to come in overtime as well.

 

[Ghetty Green]

There's a reason why Kings fans only want to include third periods in OT, because the Rangers outscored them in like 4 of the 5 games in the first two periods and a team trailing virtually the entire series goes against the narrative that they dominated the Rangers. If not for the 2012 Kings, the 2014 Kings wouldn't be viewed as an unstoppable juggernaut that wiped the floor with the Rangers.

It's been 10 years bro. You're still whining ?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It's been 10 years bro. You're still whining ?

This is a thread about the 2014 Kings. I'm whining about because there's a narrative that the Rangers were some God awful team that got decimated in the final, which isn't true.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

well, 71% are voting for the Kings...so apparently some people think they were pretty good.

This thread has devolved to 1 dude understandably defending the Rangers and 1 dude mimicking ChatGPT recycling the same three arguments bashing the Kings because what happened in november 2013 has an impact on them as a champion and such so I'll let them enjoy their flawed-logic volleyball match I guess

If not for Anti Niemi colossal bed shitting, the 2014 kings would be known as a team that got dogwalked in 4 games of the first round.

And boy did they get outplayed in that series.

This was a stupid argument 5 pages ago and it's still stupid now, just like the other 4 lines that keep getting debunked.

The Panthers were 1 goal away from the biggest choke in hockey history after being outscored 18-5

If that feels like a dumb argument, it should

Try to feed ChatGPT a new prompt

 

[dgibb10]

well, 71% are voting for the Kings...so apparently some people think they were pretty good.

This thread has devolved to 1 dude understandably defending the Rangers and 1 dude mimicking ChatGPT recycling the same three arguments bashing the Kings because what happened in november 2013 has an impact on them as a champion and such so I'll let them enjoy their flawed-logic volleyball match I guess



This was a stupid argument 5 pages ago and it's still stupid now, just like the other 4 lines that keep getting debunked.

The Panthers were 1 goal away from the biggest choke in hockey history after being outscored 18-5

If that feels like a dumb argument, it should

Try to feed ChatGPT a new prompt

The kings lost 10 playoff games in november? (STILL YET TO HEAR ANY REAL RESPONSE ABOUT THE KINGS HAVING THE WORST PLAYOFF RECORD OF ANY CUP TEAM IN THE CAP ERA)

Again, the kings had a significantly worse record in the playoffs than the panthers did with significantly worse analytics behind them.

I have done my very best to humour your whole "let's ignore 82 games of evidence because muh anecdotal evidence", despite the fact that the better regular season team wins the series 65% of the time in the playoffs.

Yes, the panthers were a bounce away from losing. The kings were like that on SO MANY OCCASSIONS in the playoffs.

A decent niemi game=round 1 loss, a bad bounce at any point in the OT win in the Anaheim or Chicago series=Series loss.

NHL fans like to turn comebacks and winning in 7 games as somehow better than not needing to do that at all, with something something about "clutch", and "grit" and "can't be killed", because then they can ignore the fact of the matter. Luck plays a large component in the results of sports games and series.

Winning game 7s and overtime games is memorable.

It's not more IMPRESSIVE than winning in regulation and in 5 or 6 games, and more repeatable.

 

[x Tame Impala]

In a single game, sure. Over the course of a series? No. Over the course of 4 playoff series en route to a Cup win? NO.

It's over man, Kings won this won big time.

 

[dgibb10]

In a single game, sure. Over the course of a series? No. Over the course of 4 playoff series en route to a Cup win? NO.

It's over man, Kings won this won big time.

Winning 4-3 in a 7 game series literally does mean it comes down to a single game.

The kings whole argument here is "we won the cup" which would work if you compared them to edmonton 2024. But the panthers also won the cup, in much more dominant fashion in the playoffs while being a much better team for 82 games before that.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Winning 4-3 in a 7 game series literally does mean it comes down to a single game.

The kings whole argument here is "we won the cup" which would work if you compared them to edmonton 2024. But the panthers also won the cup, in much more dominant fashion in the playoffs while being a much better team for 82 games before that.

So the Kings were just the luckiest team over a 2 month tournament then?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

So the Kings were just the luckiest team over a 2 month tournament then?

I hate to defend him but I think he's saying they weren't the luckiest team in 2014 but were luckier than the 2024 Panthers and maybe a bunch of other teams that didn't require as many game 7s?

 

[x Tame Impala]

I hate to defend him but I think he's saying they weren't the luckiest team in 2014 but were luckier than the 2024 Panthers and maybe a bunch of other teams that didn't require as many game 7s?

If people really think like this I don’t know how they enjoy watching the games.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

If people really think like this I don’t know how they enjoy watching the games.

I mean you have to judge the teams somehow and this thread is comparing two SC winners.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean you have to judge the teams somehow and this thread is comparing two SC winners.

One of whom has one Cup in which they were one goal away from being an answer to a trivia question after already getting crushed the previous year

and one who went Stanley Cup Win -WCF losing to dynasty -Stanley Cup Win across three years but we are here with a few posters pretending they are a fluke and that the former was unstoppably dominant

 

[SnowblindNYR]

One of whom has one Cup in which they were one goal away from being an answer to a trivia question

and one who went Stanley Cup Win -WCF losing to dynasty -Stanley Cup Win across three years but we are here with a few posters pretending they are a fluke and that the former was unstoppably dominant

I don't think anyone thinks they're a fluke. I think people just judging great teams and when teams are great you have to judge them some way. And you can't make the "one goal away" argument but also the "finding a way to win by any means necessary" argument. The Kings were one goal away from losing to Chicago.

I don't have much dog in the fight. I probably have been a bit hard on the 2014 Kings because while the Rangers played both teams it feels like 2014 Rangers were framed as some shlub team getting destroyed by Goliath, when in reality they probably played the Kings better than the 2024 team played the Panthers. So I've been a bit slanted against the Panthers. But obviously both were great teams.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't think anyone thinks they're a fluke. I think people just judging great teams and when teams are great you have to judge them some way. And you can't make the "one goal away" argument but also the "finding a way to win by any means necessary" argument. The Kings were one goal away from losing to Chicago.

I don't have much dog in the fight. I probably have been a bit hard on the 2014 Kings because while the Rangers played both teams it feels like 2014 Rangers were framed as some shlub team getting destroyed by Goliath, when in reality they probably played the Kings better than the 2024 team played the Panthers. So I've been a bit slanted against the Panthers. But obviously both were great teams.

and I am 100% probably unnecessarily defensive about defending them for a decade for being the 'worst' champion of the 2010s over and over. After 2012 and 2013 had to hear that they were a fluke and after 2014 had to hear that they were just lucky after spending each series hearing about how favored the opponents were so all this revisionist stuff about playing 'easy' teams and stuff is picking at old wounds.

And it's also probably really easy to hand wave off 'intangibles' at this stage but Justin Williams won a Conn Smythe over basically the concept of clutch/mystique/magic which validates how much even the general watchers felt about that squad, Kings were always greater than the sum of their parts but even then the parts are greatly underestimated, particularly Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick.

 

[dgibb10]

One of whom has one Cup in which they were one goal away from being an answer to a trivia question after already getting crushed the previous year

and one who went Stanley Cup Win -WCF losing to dynasty -Stanley Cup Win across three years but we are here with a few posters pretending they are a fluke and that the former was unstoppably dominant

And here is the problem.

You are trying to combine 4 years of kings teams against 1 panther team.

Also, if you throw in 2013 and 2015, I'd mention they lost series to Chi and SJS in those years, so perhaps those 7 game series wins had some luck involved.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And here is the problem.

You are trying to combine 4 years of kings teams against 1 panther team.

Also, if you throw in 2013 and 2015, I'd mention they lost series to Chi and SJS in those years, so perhaps those 7 game series wins had some luck involved.

I'm not combining them, I'm providing context that they weren't the one-off you're determined to paint them as

Which you clearly understand since you're using 'but the 2014 regular season' alone and suggesting that Kings roster didn't have a single 30 goal scoring talent

And yes, in 2013 they lost to the eventual champs, the Kings and the Hawks were the only teams stopping one another from a threepeat...and you might want to check your AGAIN wrong facts for the 2015 team--that's when it all fell apart with injuries and literal deportations and you can consider their era 'over'

I've never seen someone be so stubbornly literally wrong about so many easily verified facts in one thread

 

[dgibb10]

I'm not combining them, I'm providing context that they weren't the one-off you're determined to paint them as

The fact that they lost to Chicago the year before and SJS the year after doesn't do much to dissuade my claim that beating those 2 teams by 1 game each wasn't some destined outcome that the kings win the series 100/100 times

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The fact that they lost to Chicago the year before and SJS the year after doesn't do much to dissuade my claim that beating those 2 teams by 1 game each wasn't some destined outcome that the kings win the series 100/100 times

and again--literally no one said that.

It's impossible to debate with you with all the bad faith bullshit and inventing things as we go. It doesn't matter whether it's intentional or ignorant since it's all fantasyland. Have fun.

 

[dgibb10]

and again--literally no one said that.

It's impossible to debate with you with all the bad faith bullshit and inventing things as we go. Have fun.

I keep hearing about this "team of destiny/could not be killed" bullshit.

Because the reality of that kings team isn't kind to them in comparison to the cats.