2014 Kings vs. 2024 Panthers

[dgibb10]

Man the newness of your hockey knowledge is very apparent.

The Kings dominated all over the ice and it was only Lundqvist who kept it close. Second, the dominant teams of the modern NHL playoffs, all of them have played a possession game. I know you, for some reason, care SO MUCH about regular season that you try at every turn to apply regular season logic to the playoff game but in the playoffs, guaranteeing victory is more important than playing a wide open style to maximize points.

In regular season hockey, you spend around 3/5ths to 2/3rds of the game trying to outscore your opponent. In playoff hockey, you spend 80% of the time preventing the other team from scoring. That's why a single goaltender can dominate entire runs and get hot...like recently, maybe Bobrovsky? But the whole Kings team including the goaltender could flat out dominate 5v5 the other team. That's why Edmonton lost to Florida...they had to play the outscore game way too much in the playoffs and ran into a hot Bobrovsky but they still made it to game 7.

Kings won it in five games and there are many people who watched that series and know that easily could have been a sweep. When you win 1 overtime game, maybe you got lucky. When you win ALL the third periods and ALL the overtime games, that's not luck anymore. That's dominance.

If Florida wins it again next year, maybe you will learn this for yourself.

So what you're saying is that the team who guaranteed victory at a worse rate than every other cup champ should be viewed at as less than those other cup winners correct?

The kings had a 51% xGoals share 5v5 in that playoff run.

The panthers had a 52.5% xgoals share 5v5 in their playoff run

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Playoffs: The panthers had a 54% xGoals share on route to the cup. The kings had a 49.5% xGoals share.
Regular Season: The panthers had a 56% xGoals share, the kings had a 54% xgoals share

The panthers were simply the better hockey team

ahh no wonder

you're looking solely at xG as that's the only flattering one

now the actual GF% has the Kings ahead, and most others are close

look, in fairness, I will grant it's a close race, we're talking about two champions so in the end we're splitting hairs on degrees of greatness

but regular seasons in this context are less than meaningless and that so much of what youre arguing relies on that shows how flimsy it is

 

[Lt Dan]

I cannot believe the intensity of this debate over a hypothetical that could never possibly happen

 

[x Tame Impala]

The teams played 60 full minutes of even hockey, which is why overtime was needed.

The fact that overtime exists at all means the game was even and any single bounce at any point in the game changing could change the outcome.

Not needing to go to overtime, and not needing to go to 7 games is better than needing it.

If you were comparing the kings to a team that DIDN'T win the cup, your argument would hold weight.

But the panthers DID win the cup, and they did it with both a more impressive/dominant regular season, and a more impressive and dominant postseason.

Playoffs: The panthers had a 54% xGoals share on route to the cup. The kings had a 49.5% xGoals share.
Regular Season: The panthers had a 56% xGoals share, the kings had a 54% xgoals share

The panthers were simply the better hockey team

Forget the weird overtime argument.

The Kings won their series in 5 games and held NYR to 10 goals. They went up 3-0 in the series, lost a game, and then closed it out when they needed to.

The Panthers nearly blew it after going up 3-0. Edmonton almost tied in up in game 7.

If you’re just going to post xStats as an argument then I may as well be talking to a chat bot.

 

[AvroArrow]

Quick >>> Bobrovsky

And that would be the biggest difference IMO. It would be a phenomenal series, the teams are built similarly. LA also had Doughty on D, no one on the Panthers blue line comes even close to him.

Voted Kings in 7, they were almost a perfectly built team.

 

[dgibb10]

ahh no wonder

you're looking solely at xG as that's the only flattering one

now the actual GF% has the Kings ahead, and most others are close

look, in fairness, I will grant it's a close race, we're talking about two champions so in the end we're splitting hairs on degrees of greatness

but regular seasons in this context are less than meaningless and that so much of what youre arguing relies on that shows how flimsy it is

Fine, I will completely ignore the regular season.

No other cup champion lost as many playoff games as the 2014 kings.

Yes, Igor Shesterkin and Jeremy Swayman had truly incredible playoff performances.

Forget the weird overtime argument.

The Kings won their series in 5 games and held NYR to 10 goals. They went up 3-0 in the series, lost a game, and then closed it out when they needed to.

The Panthers nearly blew it after going up 3-0. Edmonton almost tied in up in game 7.

If you’re just going to post xStats as an argument then I may as well be talking to a chat bot.

And the kings needed an Antti Niemi disasterclass just to not get swept in round 1.

So I'm, checks notes, not allowed to:

-Look at the regular season
-Look at analytics to see a more in depth picture
-Look at a teams win loss record in the playoffs (unless it helps the kings for a specific series)
-Look at how close the teams wins were

Lmao.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Playoffs: The panthers had a 54% xGoals share on route to the cup. The kings had a 49.5% xGoals share.
Regular Season: The panthers had a 56% xGoals share, the kings had a 54% xgoals share

The panthers were simply the better hockey team

FLA were the better hockey team in 2024, in a softer league

FLA could not take on the 2014 Kings, in a 7 game series,

 

[SnowblindNYR]

On paper, I find myself excited about Florida's roster a bit more.

On the ice, that f***ing team...

You take the lead, they come back. You take the lead, they come back. You take the lead, they come back. Then you don't take the lead, and they just hold theirs. They beat the best Rangers team since '94.

Any notion that the Panthers beat a better Rangers team is laugh out loud funny. Like, yeah, the Panthers beat us worse. The Kings beat us in fewer games but series length is basically a goaltending stat in this sport. The 2024 ECF was lopsided to point of being unwatchable for most of it, while Shesterkin buoyed the scoreboard. I don't think the 2014 Finals was unwatchable.

But that's not the point. If the 2014 Rangers played the 2024 Rangers, the 2024 team would go 8-10 minutes at a time without getting a shot. It would be complete domination. The Kings faced some insane competition in the West too.

As for who the better hockey team is, I probably put that at about even, but nobody is gonna beat that 2014 Kings team in a series.

The Fox and Chytil injuries really hurt the team last year. But at least theoretically there was more high end talent last year. The 2014 team did play better than the sum of their parts (as a Kings fan mentioned). They seemed to always have the puck. BUT, they were only 8th in Corsi that year which I was shocked. But they also did not have the finishing capabilities I think of the 2024 team.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Overtime isn't a coin flip. The 2014 Kings made it to the SCF off of a game 7 OT deflection off of Leddy's ass. That doesn't mean it's a random or luck based occurrence. It means that they were playing well enough to keep generating scoring chances until one of them went in.

This "coin flip/luck" mentality on HF is by far my least favorite. Playoff games and series are won by playing well, championships are earned.

The Kings won that OT against the Hawks a couple of minutes into OT. This wasn't Pens-Sens when the Pens dominated and won.

 

[Machinehead]

The Fox and Chytil injuries really hurt the team last year. But at least theoretically there was more high end talent last year. The 2014 team did play better than the sum of their parts (as a Kings fan mentioned). They seemed to always have the puck. BUT, they were only 8th in Corsi that year which I was shocked. But they also did not have the finishing capabilities I think of the 2024 team.

The idea that this team has more high end talent (Fox, absolutely, the issue is more so at forward) is heavily rooted in how much higher scoring the league is now.

An ancient Mats Zuccarello is a PPG player in Minnesota. Imagine him in that environment during his peak with the Rangers. Rick Nash would drop 55 goals on this league.

People talk about JT Miller breaking out. How much of that is him just playing more minutes in a league that averages an extra goal and a half per game?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The idea that this team has more high end talent (Fox, absolutely, the issue is more so at forward) is heavily rooted in how much higher scoring the league is now.

An ancient Mats Zuccarello is a PPG player in Minnesota. Imagine him in that environment during his peak with the Rangers. Rick Nash would drop 55 goals on this league.

People talk about JT Miller breaking out. How much of that is him just playing more minutes in a league that averages an extra goal and a half per game?

I'm comparing the team to other teams around the league, we were closer to the top of top end talent in the league in 2024 than 2014. Say what you will about his playoff performances but the 2014 Rangers had no Panarin. As you mentioned they had no Fox. And I'd even say Trocheck is a better center than Richards and Stepan, though it's not a blowout. 2024 Krieder>>>>>>2014 Kreider. Mika in theory should be included in that list but he has been shit. Both Panarin and Fox are better than anyone on that 2014 roster but Fox was injured. What that 2014 team had was depth. Zucc on the third line is insane depth. I think this year's version healthy has depth too and for sure is better than that team. Though our defense isn't as good, but Fox-Miller is better than anything that team had. But I know this is the 24-25 team so that's cheating.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Also, no way is the difference between JT Miller in 2024 and 2014 only a product of ice time and league scoring going up. JT is producing now more like a PPG player in 2014 not a guy in the 50s in point total.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So I'm, checks notes, not allowed to:

-Look at the regular season
-Look at analytics to see a more in depth picture
-Look at a teams win loss record in the playoffs (unless it helps the kings for a specific series)
-Look at how close the teams wins were

Lmao.

You're clearly allowed to look at whatever you want

we're just also allowed to systematically clown each one of those terrible ass points

And don't you dare accuse others of cherry picking when your arguments were "Reinhart 57g regular season" and "analytics = only Xg"

 

[dgibb10]

You're clearly allowed to look at whatever you want

we're just also allowed to systematically clown each one of those terrible ass points

And don't you dare accuse others of cherry picking when your arguments were "Reinhart 57g regular season" and "analytics = only Xg"

The point was that "hey, maybe mentioning a guy who scored 57 goals this past year, and a guy who is one of just 8 players in the NHL with 300 points over the last 3 years would help paint a better picture of the Panthers team"

The cherry picking was the person who left out the 2 leading point producers on florida when mentioning their "big 3" in comparison to LAs.

 

[Mobiandi]

It’s quite funny to see fans of Eastern teams downplaying the Kings. Virtually everyone out West knew that the WCF was the real cup final in the early 2010s. The Devils and Rangers may as well have been cardboard cutouts. Neither of them were ever in those series for real

The Panthers jumped to a 3-0 lead and struggled to finish the deal against a cup finalist that was on the level of the pandemic Habs. Kings sleepwalk to a cup

 

[SnowblindNYR]

It’s quite funny to see fans of Eastern teams downplaying the Kings. Virtually everyone out West knew that the WCF was the real cup final in the early 2010s. The Devils and Rangers may as well have been cardboard cutouts. Neither of them were ever in those series for real

The Panthers jumped to a 3-0 lead and struggled to finish the deal against a cup finalist that was on the level of the pandemic Habs. Kings sleepwalk to a cup

Did you seriously compare last year's Oilers to the pandemic Habs? They were a flawed team, holy overreaction. Something tells me if the Stars who the Oilers beat made it, you wouldn't make the comparison.

 

[HockeyWooot]

FLA were the better hockey team in 2024, in a softer league

FLA could not take on the 2014 Kings, in a 7 game series,

Florida would keep up physically or keep it close, but they would outskate LAK.

Close series imo

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Florida would keep up physically or keep it close, but they would outskate LAK.

Close series imo

What I don't understand is why when a league is tougher people say that a team would bully the other team but don't make a similar determination when a league is faster.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

It can be. But winning 3 game 7s on the road and going 3-0 in all OTs and completely shutting out past the last third of all 5 second periods and all of all 5 thirds, those are trends. Just for that one special team and that one season.

No, it's happenstance. 3 individual events is not a trend.

It’s quite funny to see fans of Eastern teams downplaying the Kings. Virtually everyone out West knew that the WCF was the real cup final in the early 2010s. The Devils and Rangers may as well have been cardboard cutouts. Neither of them were ever in those series for real

The Panthers jumped to a 3-0 lead and struggled to finish the deal against a cup finalist that was on the level of the pandemic Habs. Kings sleepwalk to a cup

The best team in the East those years had a terrible coach and lost in earlier rounds.

 

[Rorschach]

No, it's happenstance. 3 individual events is not a trend.

Yeah I didn’t list 3 events.

 

[BB88]

Feels like lot of people are underrating that Floridas top12

Just insanely deep with lot of franchise/elite talent to go with it

 

[Rorschach]

Feels like lot of people are underrating that Floridas top12

Just insanely deep with lot of franchise/elite talent to go with it

I’m not, but in the head to head matchups, LA can match every strong point of Florida but Florida can’t match with Drew Doughty.

 

[Jericho111091]

It'd be a series that would've easily gone 6 or 7 games and neither team winning would be much of a surprise. I lean towards the Kings because they seemingly did their best when pushed against the wall

 

[Rorschach]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if Florida taking LA to game 6 or 7 is giving way too much credit to Florida simply due to me being happy that Edmonton lost.

While you can match up the forwards reasonably, despite people talking about the Florida second line, the Kings have two 40 goal-capable in their top six. Kopitar can be in the same class as Barkov, big strong guys who play a two way game.

Goaltenders, 2014 Quick vs. 2024 Bobrovsky is close enough.

Defense-wise, however, there is a clear advantage on the Kings side with their top pairing. 2024 playoff Ekblad is maybe in the same class as 2014 Voynov. Both are RHs PMDs. But there is no player at the caliber of 2014 playoff Drew Doughty and the pairing of Doughty/Muzzin is head and shoulders above any pair on Florida.

Also the amount of playoff experience in the core players is much greater, not even counting the 2012 Championship. Mitchell 2011 Final, Richards and Carter 2010 Final, Williams...accomplishments way too long to discuss. Not counting Gagne since he wasn't a core player.

So comparing rosters, 2014 LA is clearly better than 2024 Florida and it's not close.


LA's 2014 playoff opponents:
1st Round: defeated Stanley Cup favorites San Jose in a reverse sweep
This team had a 1C (Thornton), 1W (Pavelski, C playing as W), 2C (Couture), 1D (Vlasic),

2nd Round: defeated SC contender Anaheim
This team had a 1C (Getzlaf), 1W (Perry), 2C (Rackell), 1D (Lindholm), 1G (Gibson)

3rd Round: defeated SC dynasty Chicago in arguably the greatest series in modern hockey
This team had 1C (Toews), 3x 1Ws (Hossa and Kane), 1D (Keith), 1G Crawford and many other standout players like Hjalmarsson and Saad.

Final Round: dominated NYR keeping third period and OT record for a spotless 169:39 shutout minutes, not counting second periods and not counting the shutout game.

All three of these teams ran 4 complete lines and three complete defensive pairings. Those are the teams that the Kings beat in 7, in 2014. Who did Florida face? In the Final they got taken to 7 games by a team that has a mediocre defense and a bad goaltender.


Any measure of regular season stats is meaningless and playoff record without context is disingenuous.

Florida had a great run ending in a highly respectable Cup run. But by no means in any book is this a legendary run. There's a reason why people are still talking about the 2014 Kings

 

[Sol]

I didn't claim florida beat better teams. I disputed the claim that "LAK beat the top 3 teams in the league"

I pick florida because florida was a better team in the regular season, and was significantly more dominant in the playoffs.

Quick had a masterclass on route to that cup where LAK wasn't necessarily dominating games or even outplaying their opponents, but Florida faced and beat heavily goalie reliant teams like that in NYR and Boston

What are you smoking? As a Kings fan Quicks performance was what got them down against the Sharks to begin with. Quick was far from dominant in 2014. He was dominant in 2012 playoffs however. The most clutch things about the Kings in 2014 was timely goaltending and explosive offense. It wasn’t “masterclass” goaltending.

Kings beat juggernauts. I think in this poll the Kings would almost certainly trounce the Panthers. They had better offense and everything else was at worst even. Panthers have no where near the quality of forwards the Kings had.