Salary Cap: 2014 - 2015 New York Rangers :: Roster Building / Proposal Thread Part XIII

[RangerBoy]

Katie Strang has a preview of the Rangers trading deadline.

 

[silverfish]

hey sfish, another poster ? i think they were both me. lol

It was you! In two different posts so I got confused.

Blame it on Monday brain.

 

[NYR Viper]

I know Kassian has been mentioned in here before and he is a player I wanted in his draft year, but would anyone do a J Moore + for Kassian swap? He is a bit crazy but he brings an element this team lacks. He can play 3rd or 4th line. Still only 24.

He doesn't fit in Vancouver with their new coach and apparently they are looking for a d-man.

Gorton has stated he has been building around the Bruins model for a while. Could they see a poor mans Lucic?

 

[RGY]

I am very on board with Martin Hanzal. I'd be willing to give Miller up in a deal for him.

 

[silverfish]

I know Kassian has been mentioned in here before and he is a player I wanted in his draft year, but would anyone do a J Moore + for Kassian swap? He is a bit crazy but he brings an element this team lacks. He can play 3rd or 4th line. Still only 24.

He doesn't fit in Vancouver with their new coach and apparently they are looking for a d-man.

Gorton has stated he has been building around the Bruins model for a while. Could they see a poor mans Lucic?

In a heartbeat, assuming we add a Methot-type so Hunwick isn't the every day 6LD going into May.

 

[Ex Officer Friendly]

I know Kassian has been mentioned in here before and he is a player I wanted in his draft year, but would anyone do a J Moore + for Kassian swap? He is a bit crazy but he brings an element this team lacks. He can play 3rd or 4th line. Still only 24.

He doesn't fit in Vancouver with their new coach and apparently they are looking for a d-man.

Gorton has stated he has been building around the Bruins model for a while. Could they see a poor mans Lucic?

In the games that I have watched of Vancouver Kassian does not seem to be a poor mans Lucic... half of the time he is praised just for being engaged... But then again I do not watch all of the Canucks games so I could be missing something.

He has flashes of playing well but then they disappear who would even get bumped from the lineup to make room for Kassian? he is a RWer

Also, I don't think he really fits in with AV's system either.

 

[True Blue]

Its not about interpretation, its about context. Cherry picking an isolated instance with out looking at all the facts is pretty dishonest presentation.

I do not think that isolating their performance against bigger teams that are playoff contenders is cherry picking. Isles, Bruins, Tampa. And to me Columbus. Bigger teams that bring a forecheck and do not give the Rangers free skating lanes. That is not cherry picking. The Rangers have not had an answer for this.

 

[rangers1314]

I know Kassian has been mentioned in here before and he is a player I wanted in his draft year, but would anyone do a J Moore + for Kassian swap? He is a bit crazy but he brings an element this team lacks. He can play 3rd or 4th line. Still only 24.

He doesn't fit in Vancouver with their new coach and apparently they are looking for a d-man.

Gorton has stated he has been building around the Bruins model for a while. Could they see a poor mans Lucic?

He'd be a nice 4th liner here, but we have no use/room for him with Glass on the roster. But yes I'd do a Moore-Kassian swap.

 

[offdacrossbar]

It would be very steep and would completely buck the trend of the way things go at the deadline. I posted something on the last thread where I listed almost every single deal made for a rental forward from 2010-13 (didn't count last year, since the prices were so low and I don't expect that to happen again.) There wasn't a single deal that yielded a return for a young roster player on an ELC (who was a former first rounder no less) except for the Kovalchuk trade (who was an elite player and still didn't return either of the Devils top 2 prospects.)

Its not just the Rangers who don't make those type of deals, no one in the league does.

vermette is the target and he should be. he's seriously under appreciated here. he's a very good player and would offer us a lot. he would make us better and more dangerous. he's my guy.

hanzal gonna cost too much and the appetite to move key young guys who will log lots of affordable cost controlled minutes is very low.

don't think a hanzal deal gets done. he's gonna be too expensive.

 

[haveandare]

I don't think they can afford Miller for Hanzal. I just don't see how the cap works with that. Keeping everything else as is, meaning with absolutely 0$ new money coming in, they're going to have to lose a winger. Bringing in a ~4m player in Hanzal with an ELC player in Miller going the other way - they're losing two wingers, maybe even another guy, and also pretty much giving up on Hayes at C for the foreseeable future.

Seems like an awful lot of trouble for a guy who will essentially be playing 3C.

 

[haveandare]

In reply to haveandare



Eh, I'd think AV would give him about the same ES time as Brassard. You also have the option of putting him against top lines, and getting Stepan's line more room and more offensive chances.



Hayes will still have plenty of value as a winger. If the deal is right, I have no problem getting Hanzal.



See above.



I understand the concern, but he's exactly what we are missing, literally to a "t". I would go as far as to say he'd make our forward group a top 5 one in the league. He's still a young guy too at 27.

True about the matchups. Could be a good situation.

Hayes' value isn't my concern - it's giving up on him at a more essential position that worries me. Especially given how well he's done at it in his first year.

Also, again, the cap. What kind of sacrifices need to be made to have Hanzal coming in with an ELC going the other way? Are they worth it?

 

[bobbop]

Bob, am I off in my assessment of Hanzal in that he would be a HUGE upgrade to our center group?

HUGE upgrade. Hanzal is a 2.5 center who regularly takes on the big centers in the west (Getzlaff, Kopitar, Pavelski etc.) Good on faceoffs, good defensively and a scoring contributor. Even gets some PP time as a net front presence. Plus he's relatively young, has a favorable contract and slots in beautifully not just this year but in the future. IMO, adding Hanzal would give the Rangers a three deep similar to LA (Kopitar-Carter-Stoll)

I had originally been told that Hanzal was "not available" but later amended that when the new ownership basically told Maloney to blow it up. The Coyotes need quality and quantity. I also read that there were potentially some issues with the Coyotes leadership group and Hanzal is considered a team leader. He has been an "A" for a couple of years.

He is such a good fit, I think you could be surprised at how deep the Rangers may be willing to go for him.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I know Kassian has been mentioned in here before and he is a player I wanted in his draft year, but would anyone do a J Moore + for Kassian swap? He is a bit crazy but he brings an element this team lacks. He can play 3rd or 4th line. Still only 24.

He doesn't fit in Vancouver with their new coach and apparently they are looking for a d-man.

Gorton has stated he has been building around the Bruins model for a while. Could they see a poor mans Lucic?

stealin my thunder again huh vipe.

kassian is exactly the kinda guy we need to add to this mostly finesse group.

lots of scrape. really sweet set of hands and solid passer, underrated offensive skills wrapped in a 747 body.

i think i would do that deal you propose even though i would prefer to keep jmoore and be "mcilrath patient" with him.

 

[bobbop]

Anyone thinking the Kings are not going to keep Stoll, including Katie, is wrong. They won 2 Stanley Cups by being three deep down the middle. Unless they can acquire a suitable replacement (which I don't see) this ain't happening.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I do not think that isolating their performance against bigger teams that are playoff contenders is cherry picking. Isles, Bruins, Tampa. And to me Columbus. Bigger teams that bring a forecheck and do not give the Rangers free skating lanes. That is not cherry picking. The Rangers have not had an answer for this.

Throwing Columbus into the mix is with out a doubt cherry picking, and I don't think a Stepanless performance against Boston is really a great barometer for how they match up there either (wouldn't be if the Rangers had won the game in dominating fashion either.)

LA, St Louis, San Jose and Anaheim also play pretty heavy games that bring the forecheck and the Rangers handled those teams just fine.

Also, wouldn't playing Columbus the night after playing a hard physical team like Boston only further weaken your point while giving more credence to what I was saying? Again it was their 3rd game in 4 nights, I think it says more about this team that they were able to win this one but instead, you want to spin it into a negative which is fine if thats your prerogative, but also know that its utter nonsense.

Already spoke on Tampa and the Isles and you have a case with the latter much more than the former, neither of these teams are particularly "big" teams (especially Tampa, they're actually pretty small upfront.)

Predicting future playoff success based off of regular season games is a stupid way to go about doing things anyway. If you really wanted to (which you don't) you could pick apart every team in a playoff spot right now and try to argue why they shouldn't make moves at the deadline because they aren't a legit "contender."

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

HUGE upgrade. Hanzal is a 2.5 center who regularly takes on the big centers in the west (Getzlaff, Kopitar, Pavelski etc.) Good on faceoffs, good defensively and a scoring contributor. Even gets some PP time as a net front presence. Plus he's relatively young, has a favorable contract and slots in beautifully not just this year but in the future. IMO, adding Hanzal would give the Rangers a three deep similar to LA (Kopitar-Carter-Stoll)

I had originally been told that Hanzal was "not available" but later amended that when the new ownership basically told Maloney to blow it up. The Coyotes need quality and quantity. I also read that there were potentially some issues with the Coyotes leadership group and Hanzal is considered a team leader. He has been an "A" for a couple of years.

He is such a good fit, I think you could be surprised at how deep the Rangers may be willing to go for him.

Very good info. I agree with you, he is the perfect fit. Hanzal is the exact type of C the Rangers have been lacking for years.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Anyone thinking the Kings are not going to keep Stoll, including Katie, is wrong. They won 2 Stanley Cups by being three deep down the middle. Unless they can acquire a suitable replacement (which I don't see) this ain't happening.

beat me to it.

stoll is money. no way lombardi moves him. those 3 guys wrecked us in the scf. thats their strength.

someone would have to blow lombardi away for him to move stoll.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

vermette is the target and he should be. he's seriously under appreciated here. he's a very good player and would offer us a lot. he would make us better and more dangerous. he's my guy.

hanzal gonna cost too much and the appetite to move key young guys who will log lots of affordable cost controlled minutes is very low.

don't think a hanzal deal gets done. he's gonna be too expensive.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think its debatable that Vermette should be this team's top target IMO but I'm with you on how big of an add he'd be for this team.

I'm just saying that deals for rental players have not required to send a player like JT Miller the other way unless its for an elite player (Hossa, Kovalchuk.) The offer you proposed is closer to what you'll see and even then I'm not convinced it would take that much.

 

[silverfish]

Anyone thinking the Kings are not going to keep Stoll, including Katie, is wrong. They won 2 Stanley Cups by being three deep down the middle. Unless they can acquire a suitable replacement (which I don't see) this ain't happening.

No doubt.

It's at least worth a conversation though. Similar to the ones this board had about Staal before he re-upped.

Lose him for nothing as a UFA to make a deep run in the playoffs?

Or re-coup assets for him knowing it'll be tough to re-sign Stoll and pieces of your core?

If I'm LA, I keep him and run the risk of losing him for nothing, no doubt about it, just like I would've done with Staal before he re-signed.

 

[NYR Viper]

stealin my thunder again huh vipe.

kassian is exactly the kinda guy we need to add to this mostly finesse group.

lots of scrape. really sweet set of hands and solid passer, underrated offensive skills wrapped in a 747 body.

i think i would do that deal you propose even though i would prefer to keep jmoore and be "mcilrath patient" with him.

I try

Having Kassian up front and McIlrath on the back end in the foreseeable future would be a nice change of pace to a mostly finesse group.

HUGE upgrade. Hanzal is a 2.5 center who regularly takes on the big centers in the west (Getzlaff, Kopitar, Pavelski etc.) Good on faceoffs, good defensively and a scoring contributor. Even gets some PP time as a net front presence. Plus he's relatively young, has a favorable contract and slots in beautifully not just this year but in the future. IMO, adding Hanzal would give the Rangers a three deep similar to LA (Kopitar-Carter-Stoll)

I had originally been told that Hanzal was "not available" but later amended that when the new ownership basically told Maloney to blow it up. The Coyotes need quality and quantity. I also read that there were potentially some issues with the Coyotes leadership group and Hanzal is considered a team leader. He has been an "A" for a couple of years.

He is such a good fit, I think you could be surprised at how deep the Rangers may be willing to go for him.

I would go pretty deep for him too. He's an underrated player because he plays in a non-traditional market.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't think they can afford Miller for Hanzal. I just don't see how the cap works with that. Keeping everything else as is, meaning with absolutely 0$ new money coming in, they're going to have to lose a winger. Bringing in a ~4m player in Hanzal with an ELC player in Miller going the other way - they're losing two wingers, maybe even another guy, and also pretty much giving up on Hayes at C for the foreseeable future.

Seems like an awful lot of trouble for a guy who will essentially be playing 3C.

Hanzal is not a $4m player right now. His cap hit is $3.1m. We're looking at the 2017 offseason for when he's a UFA.

Frankly, I'd rather have Hanzal for next season than Zuccarello. I enjoy our wing depth right now, but center depth is a much bigger key to me.

 

[I Eat Crow]

HUGE upgrade. Hanzal is a 2.5 center who regularly takes on the big centers in the west (Getzlaff, Kopitar, Pavelski etc.) Good on faceoffs, good defensively and a scoring contributor. Even gets some PP time as a net front presence. Plus he's relatively young, has a favorable contract and slots in beautifully not just this year but in the future. IMO, adding Hanzal would give the Rangers a three deep similar to LA (Kopitar-Carter-Stoll)

I had originally been told that Hanzal was "not available" but later amended that when the new ownership basically told Maloney to blow it up. The Coyotes need quality and quantity. I also read that there were potentially some issues with the Coyotes leadership group and Hanzal is considered a team leader. He has been an "A" for a couple of years.

He is such a good fit, I think you could be surprised at how deep the Rangers may be willing to go for him.

Hanzal would give the Rangers the best center corps in the East after Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter. Durability is a problem, but when he's healthy, he's one of the best two way centers in the league. I would give up significant pieces to land him, but another team can probably offer a better package.

The other major problem becomes paying him after next season. He has a 3.1 million cap hit until then. He'll be due a raise to about 5 million or so after that. Does Zuccarello, St. Louis, or Hagelin come off the books or the other way in a trade to accommodate that salary? If the answer is yes, then it really is important that guys like Miller, Duclair, and Buchnevich contribute significantly at the NHL level while on their ELC's.

 

[NYR Viper]

Hanzal is not a $4m player right now. His cap hit is $3.1m. We're looking at the 2017 offseason for when he's a UFA.

Frankly, I'd rather have Hanzal for next season than Zuccarello. I enjoy our wing depth right now, but center depth is a much bigger key to me.

This is exactly how I feel. Get another legit 2C and this team is in the drivers seat. Wings are easier to replace

 

[NYR Viper]

Hanzal would give the Rangers the best center corps in the East after Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter. Durability is a problem, but when he's healthy, he's one of the best two way centers in the league. I would give up significant pieces to land him, but another team can probably offer a better package.

The other major problem becomes paying him after next season. He has a 3.1 million cap hit until then. He'll be due a raise to about 5 million or so after that. Does Zuccarello, St. Louis, or Hagelin come off the books or the other way in a trade to accommodate that salary? If the answer is yes, then it really is important that guys like Miller, Duclair, and Buchnevich contribute significantly at the NHL level while on their ELC's.

It's a distinct possibility that all 3 of those guys could be gone by then. Hayes becomes a winger as well. Fast is still around. Solidify the center ice position and build outwards.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

I wonder if Hagelin, Skjei, and a pick gets Hanzal. I love Skjei but with Staal and McD locked up...

Nash - Step - MSL
Kreider - Hanzal - Hayes
Miller - Brass - Zucc
Stemp - Moore - Fast