2014-2015 Champions Hockey League

[Urbanskog]

You're saying teams have not lost revenue as a result of the move? Find that hard to believe. HIFK must have seen the attendance drop since there's no more derbys.

HIFK's attendance has not dropped, but increased.

 

[vorky]

Fasel gave an interview to russian agency RSport.

KHL clubs wont play CHL in its second season, again. Why is CHL not interesting for KHL?

You should ask KHL leadership about it. I know, that some clubs would like to play CHL. KHL has exhausting schedule, so many games. So I understand why KHL does not want to join another tournament. We will see, I have tried many times to persuade KHL leadership to join. We should continue to persuade them to come back to european family. I can say that it is difficult to crown champion of european club´s hockey if russian clubs does not join the tournament, I say it is pointless. Maybe we should change the concept/principles of CHL. IIHF has only 12% stake in CHL operating company. Majority belongs to clubs and leagues, and there is sometimes different opinion about CHL developing among IIHF and founder clubs/leagues of CHL. Future and fans will decide if CHL is successfull or not. There is too many clubs in CHL. If there are six to eight swedish and finnish clubs in CHL, then the tournament becomes essentially a competition of two countries. In princile it is good that such tournament exists in Europe, but we should rethink the concept of the CHL.

Do you think that first CHL season was successfull if we look at attendance?

No. Two swedish clubs played in final, so we should take this factor into account. The moment/time will come when all sit at one table to negotiate tournament which will be common and successfull for all european hockey. They will try to work together not one against another like now. Finally, fans will decide if this tournament is interesting for them. Attendance was low, media interest not so big, but there is a deal for three seasons, so we will see the results after those years.

what do you think?

 

[ViD]

Fasel gave an interview to russian agency RSport.


what do you think?

it's very clear that without KHL that tournament is nothing to be taken seriously

 

[alce*]

it's very clear that without KHL that tournament is nothing to be taken seriously

With KHL this tournament will be even worse. KHL, SHL and Liiga would occupy almost all (if not all) play-off spots in the tournament for many years ahead. It would be disastrous for tournament promotion. Interest to the tournament in Sweden and Finland is already lowest of all participants and in Russia it wouldn't be any better.

 

[Jussi]

With KHL this tournament will be even worse. KHL, SHL and Liiga would occupy almost all (if not all) play-off spots in the tournament for many years ahead. It would be disastrous for tournament promotion. Interest to the tournament in Sweden and Finland is already lowest of all participants and in Russia it wouldn't be any better.

No club posted losses for the tournament and those who advanced furthest, made most profit. Ergo, Finnish and Swedish clubs were probably pleased considering it was the inaugural season.

 

[Exarz]

With KHL this tournament will be even worse. KHL, SHL and Liiga would occupy almost all (if not all) play-off spots in the tournament for many years ahead. It would be disastrous for tournament promotion. Interest to the tournament in Sweden and Finland is already lowest of all participants and in Russia it wouldn't be any better.

I really hope they limit the number of teams when the A license gets revoked. It's hard to say how many teams there should be from the KHL as it's multi national, but at least the SHL, NLA, Liiga, DEL and Extraliga should have three directly qualified (two best placed and the playoff winner) and one team who has to play a qualification round before the group stage.

32 teams in the group stage should be the maximum amount, instead of having 1000 teams, they should introduce some kind of qualification round. The worse the league is, the more qualification rounds you have to play in advance to reach the group stage.

They should also ditch the stupid Warrior and top scorer jerseys.

No club posted losses for the tournament and those who advanced furthest, made most profit. Ergo, Finnish and Swedish clubs were probably pleased considering it was the inaugural season.

That is true, though there was not much media and fan interest in the league. They really need something to change this.

 

[vorky]

I really hope they limit the number of teams when the A license gets revoked. It's hard to say how many teams there should be from the KHL as it's multi national, but at least the SHL, NLA, Liiga, DEL and Extraliga should have three directly qualified (two best placed and the playoff winner) and one team who has to play a qualification round before the group stage.

32 teams in the group stage should be the maximum amount, instead of having 1000 teams, they should introduce some kind of qualification round. The worse the league is, the more qualification rounds you have to play in advance to reach the group stage.

They should also ditch the stupid Warrior and top scorer jerseys.


That is true, though there was not much media and fan interest in the league. They really need something to change this.

The Q is: Is CHL leadership able to change something? I doubt.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

I think most important is to just keep going!
Biggest problem has been that we're now into the fourth or fifth CHL attempt of sorts - if we look at the obvious comparison, the Champions League, I doubt european football clubs took it seriously at the start - and that would account for Real's first four trophies.. But some 10 years in, and its a real competition

So whatever they try, must have stomach to sit out the first 5-8 years and bear with it. In the meantime its irrelevant if its 2 swedish or 2 finnish teams in the final etc.

 

[PuckOut]

I think most important is to just keep going!
Biggest problem has been that we're now into the fourth or fifth CHL attempt of sorts - if we look at the obvious comparison, the Champions League, I doubt european football clubs took it seriously at the start - and that would account for Real's first four trophies.. But some 10 years in, and its a real competition

So whatever they try, must have stomach to sit out the first 5-8 years and bear with it. In the meantime its irrelevant if its 2 swedish or 2 finnish teams in the final etc.

Well said.

I'm looking forward to the second season. The seeding and draw in May will be very interesting to follow.

 

[Jussi]

I agree that the clubs in Finland and Sweden need to beef up their marketing. It's kind of ironic how big of a hit this was in lesser hockey countries. The British clubs were making huge profits from their home games.

 

[Theokritos]

I think most important is to just keep going!
Biggest problem has been that we're now into the fourth or fifth CHL attempt of sorts - if we look at the obvious comparison, the Champions League, I doubt european football clubs took it seriously at the start - and that would account for Real's first four trophies.. But some 10 years in, and its a real competition.

It was still the European Champions' Cup back when Real won the first four trophies. The bad news is: Hockey had its own European Champions' Cup too from the 1960s on, so we're long past the 10 years mark in reality.

 

[EbencoyE]

It was still the European Champions' Cup back when Real won the first four trophies. The bad news is: Hockey had its own European Champions' Cup too from the 1960s on, so we're long past the 10 years mark in reality.

There's been some big gaps between competitions in recent history though. There was a gap of a few years between the EHL and ECC and the ECC was incredibly short (one weekend) and held in the same city ever year, then only one year of the first CHL which was 6 years ago. (European Trophy isn't worth mentioning)

None of the recent attempts have existed long enough to build any kind of momentum or interest.

The first CHL and even the original EHL did pretty well (albeit not financially sound, but the support was there) so I think there is definitely potential for a competition like this to be successful. We'll just have to wait and see if this club-led initiative works better than the IIHF's past attempts.

It's just a shame the first CHL came around right at the same time as the great recession because it was almost perfect. I watched every game and I don't even have any club allegiances in European hockey. Hopefully this new competition proves to be more financially sound though, even with it's imperfections.

Even if the Russian teams might add a bit more interest, the Russian economy clearly isn't that valuable these days so it doesn't seem all that important. With the KHL's attempt to conquer Europe having failed, I guess all they have to hold on to now is their image as the best league in Europe. Don't want to risk losing to a Swiss team in the final again.

If the CHL is successful and grows, the Russian teams will eventually come knocking wanting to play too. No point in worrying about them at this time.

 

[EbencoyE]

I agree that the clubs in Finland and Sweden need to beef up their marketing. It's kind of ironic how big of a hit this was in lesser hockey countries. The British clubs were making huge profits from their home games.

Well it makes sense in a way because those teams normally wouldn't have those extra games to profit off of in the first place, and then they got good crowds on top of that because people wanted to see a higher level of hockey than they normally get to see. It's an all-around win for the smaller hockey countries as it gives extra incentive for those teams to do well just to be able to play any games in the CHL at all even if they get blown out.

This is why a European-wide competition like this is so important for the growth of the sport. Unfortunately it means easier games for the big hockey countries, but nothing will change if the effort isn't put in to promote change. If the CHL becomes lucrative enough for the smaller countries it won't be long before they are competing with the best.

 

[Jussi]

Well it makes sense in a way because those teams normally wouldn't have those extra games to profit off of in the first place, and then they got good crowds on top of that because people wanted to see a higher level of hockey than they normally get to see. It's an all-around win for the smaller hockey countries as it gives extra incentive for those teams to do well just to be able to play any games in the CHL at all even if they get blown out.

This is why a European-wide competition like this is so important for the growth of the sport. Unfortunately it means easier games for the big hockey countries, but nothing will change if the effort isn't put in to promote change. If the CHL becomes lucrative enough for the smaller countries it won't be long before they are competing with the best.

The unexpected result from the CHL might be that it will increase the sports popularity in those smaller countries while not necessarily doing much in the bigger ones. It might lead to getting more sponsors from those countries than the already established ones. I don't know whether this might lead to a more permanent hockey's version of basketball's Euroleague but it's certainly doing more for the popularity of hockey in Europe than the KHL. When the GM of JYP is envious of a British club having a 500K € turnover for their home games, you know there's potential in some areas.

 

[Urbanskog]

CHL may expand to Poland:

http://wmia2015.iihf.com/en/news/chl-invites-poland/

 

[EbencoyE]

No, they wont.

If the economic rewards warrant it? Of course they will.

Granted, it will be a while before Russian fans see the attraction of "proving themselves" against the rest of Europe, but if the Russian economy continues to slide and the KHL continues to nose-dive, it could happen a lot sooner than we think.

KHL teams aren't going to turn their noses up at money if they think they can attract crowds for games or if the sponsor and TV money grows enough to make it attractive enough. It's just basic business.

 

[vorky]

If the economic rewards warrant it? Of course they will.

Granted, it will be a while before Russian fans see the attraction of "proving themselves" against the rest of Europe, but if the Russian economy continues to slide and the KHL continues to nose-dive, it could happen a lot sooner than we think.

KHL teams aren't going to turn their noses up at money if they think they can attract crowds for games or if the sponsor and TV money grows enough to make it attractive enough. It's just basic business.

I have only one reply to these words - scifi or fantasy if you want. No way it will/might be a reality one day.

 

[EbencoyE]

I have only one reply to these words - scifi or fantasy if you want. No way it will/might be a reality one day.

Nothing sci-fi or fantasy about it. The KHL is crumbling and KHL teams took part in the first version of the CHL when Russia was doing much better economically.

You have shared your opinion, now how about some rationale behind it? Or do you not have any?

 

[vorky]

Nothing sci-fi or fantasy about it. The KHL is crumbling and KHL teams took part in the first version of the CHL when Russia was doing much better economically.

Two different situations.

You have shared your opinion, now how about some rationale behind it? Or do you not have any?

Of course I have arguments to support my opinion, but I doubt that it changes anything.

1. Do you think that it is good/successful if there are no qualifications rounds in CHL and 48+Poland clubs plays directly group stage?

2. If you say YES to point 1, then I am asking. Is current CHL leadership able to reform CHL to have Q rounds (look Fasel)? Lets have a look at current CHL leadership, what did they do after 1 season? Added new clubs directly to group stage! No different among top SHL teams and France club as example. When we look at UEFA CL - spanish champions plays group stage, but polish champion plays QR. You can not have SHL and France clubs at the same level/worth.

3. KHL. Do you know what new KHL leadership said about joining CHL? "CHL is good idea in principle but we wont join under CURRENT conditions (too many clubs etc). KHL does not need CHL, but CHL needs KHL." Btw Fasel said the same.

I think these 3 points are enough.

 

[Jussi]

Nothing sci-fi or fantasy about it. The KHL is crumbling and KHL teams took part in the first version of the CHL when Russia was doing much better economically.

You have shared your opinion, now how about some rationale behind it? Or do you not have any?

I wouldn't say necessarily say that it's crumbling but as Fasel has said, the KHL financial model is completely unrealistic so it was bound to bite them in the ass eventually. Economic realities will force them to change the system into a more realistic one (salary cap, number of teams) or it will end up reverting to a Russian team only league (which some Russian posters her wouldn't have any problems with).

 

[Exarz]

I came up with a reformation of the current CHL to, hopefully, make it more interesting from the fans' point of view. What do you think?

• 32 teams in the group stage, 8 groups
• The two top teams from each group goes to the eight finals
• If KHL keeps all 6 foreign teams, then: 3 Russian teams directly qualified to the group stage, 1 Russian team in the last qualification round, 2 best foreign teams directly qualified, 2 middle placed foreign teams play the last qualification round and the 2 worst foreign teams play the second last qualification round
• SHL, DEL, NLA, Liiga and Czech Extraliga gets 3 directly qualified teams and one team each in the last qualification round
• EBEL gets two direct spots and one qualification spot
• Norwegian and Slovak league gets one direct spot and one qualification spot
• This leaves us with 24 teams directly qualified (1-3 seed) and 8 empty spots filled from the qualification round (4th seed teams)

I also think it's important that better foreign teams in other leagues (ex. Bolzano from Italy playing in EBEL) gets the chance representing their country in the CHL qualification round. Perhaps a playoff round vs the winner in Serie A? It should be easier in cases where it has not been an "infected" league switch, like Jokerit's entry to the KHL.

To get most of the nations involved in the CHL, it's important to have as many qualification rounds as necessary so every European hockey country can get their chance reaching the group stage instead of almost having 50 teams directly qualified!

Added: This can only come to reality when the A-license is gone within 2-3 seasons.

 

[alce*]

Even if the Russian teams might add a bit more interest, the Russian economy clearly isn't that valuable these days so it doesn't seem all that important. With the KHL's attempt to conquer Europe having failed, I guess all they have to hold on to now is their image as the best league in Europe. Don't want to risk losing to a Swiss team in the final again.

What a funny mix of arrogance and ignorance. First of all, there a no need for any "image", as KHL isn't NHL. It's NHL fans who are full of illusions that NHL is so above other leagues that even champions of KHL couldn't win a single game against NHL bottom teams. There are very small amount of idiots amongst KHL fans who thinks that way about KHL and European leagues. KHL is strongest hockey league in Europe, but it isn't something to be especially proud of or to have as a big achievement. Because it's always was that way, Soviet and Russian hockey leagues were best leagues in Europe (maybe except several years right after USSR times). Nobody would expect that KHL teams would win ChHL every year, "being best" only means that KHL teams would win more often than SHL or Liiga teams.

Now about don't wanting risk. KHL was ready to participate in first year and haven't demanded nothing extraordinary for such participation. It's ChHL management that have chosen to be inflexible.

If the CHL is successful and grows, the Russian teams will eventually come knocking wanting to play too. No point in worrying about them at this time.

Now funny part. If ... then... It's all good in theory, but in practice there is no desire from KHL to participate in ChHL anymore. Which is evidently follows from that fact that KHL management sees first season of ChHL as very disappointing. So they've gone from ready to participate to "thanks, but we aren't interested".

I would be glad if ChHL will became successful and significant tournament. I don't believe in it at all, but I wouldn't mind to be wrong about it. But in any case, be it successful or not, there are no need for ChHL and KHL to be involved with each other. There would be no benefit for both parties.

 

[bordshockeypampen]

I came up with a reformation of the current CHL to, hopefully, make it more interesting from the fans' point of view. What do you think?

Your suggestion looks alot like the UEFA CL. And I suppose that's what the IIHF are aiming for. But I suppose the CHL teams would be more interested in a setup more similar to the Baskeball's Euroleague.

I'm not sure which alternative that would be most interesting to the fans. With the Euroleague setup, the fans will get more time to build up rivalries, with a bigger chance to meet teams like Frölunda, Färjestad and Sparta Prague each year, instead of more often meeting relatively unknown teams like Växjö and Litvínov, that happened to play well in the national league the previous season.

It will be interesting to see which way things are going after the initial three years.

I think one problem is that the leagues tries to be two things at the same time.
CHL tries to be a pan-European league with the richest European clubs as well as a competition between national champions.
And KHL also tries to be a pan-European league with the richest European clubs, while still being the national league of Russia.

 

[Exarz]

So they will keep the ugly patch on the arm next season as well. Great!

Here are Espoo Blues' proposals for their CHL-jerseys the upcoming season.

 

[PuckOut]

So they will keep the ugly patch on the arm next season as well. Great!

Here are Espoo Blues' proposals for their CHL-jerseys the upcoming season.

It looks smaller though..?