Speculation: 2014-15 Stars Trade Talk: v2.0

[BigG44]

Glennie isn't going to jump established players in Eaves and Sceviour. He's not even playing particularly well in the AHL, and I can't say this for sure, but I think he was one of the guys benched for poor play yesterday. Laxdall wouldn't say, but I don't recall him playing much, and I'd rather not watch that snoozer again.

I was a supporter of Glennie being a decent Bottom 6 option moving forward, but he's regressed to an unacceptable point now that Desjardins is gone.

 

[Satan]

Glennie will never play for this team again

 

[BigG44]

Gee I can't wait until this team can trade for Voynov:

Nathan Fenno ‏@nathanfenno

At Voynov's home, the officer noted blood all over bedroom, including covering comforter and a bloody handprint on floor.

The stuff that guy is posting from the initial court case is unbelievable.

 

[Mr Misty]

Gee I can't wait until this team can trade for Voynov:



The stuff that guy is posting from the initial court case is unbelievable.

Remember how the lawyer interviewed the lady and it turned out to be a misunderstanding that was blown out of proportion because she doesn't have good enough English?

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Some rumors are made up based on past associations (he played for XX, the coach wants him back)

Others are common sense, even if with no sources. I mean, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes (or even Katie Holmes) to figure an out of playoff Stars teams will trade off vets with no contracts to get something from them rather than lose them for nothing next year. Yes, Fids has a cheap year left and could be valuable to a contender, too.

So, Horcoff, Cole maybe Eaves will be in the rumor mill. Any core guys won't be traded, as in the example up this thread of the value of Roussel. If it is a young player, and you trade him for a future pick, you still need to replace him, so the value isn't there for a team that expects to be competitive in a few years time.

It will be interesting. I think we will improve a bit, and it will be a tough call to keep competing with who we have vs. trading them off and writing off the season to help the future. Two years ago we were sellers with Roy, Jags and Morrow, all classed as second line to first line guys. In the end, our haul wasn't all that great.

Morrow for Morrow - Morrow flipped to BOS so maybe a tenth of TS goals for Morrow
Jags - the first is Dickinson and the others are out of the organization with no value received
Roy - forget who we used the second on, but KC was waived.

Based on that, unless we get a late first, it may not be worth it. Cole might bring a 2 pick, Horcoff a 3 and Eaves a 4 (all guesses at best possible value from a desperate team, and return probably one pick lower for all.) But, just a guess. We might want our second round pick back, and it might even be something like Cole and a 4th for a 2nd, or something like that to balance value. Overall, With seconds and prospects, you have to hit the mother lode and get lucky to make it really pay off.

The real value is in the El Tanko.

 

[OttMorrow]

Some rumors are made up based on past associations (he played for XX, the coach wants him back)

Others are common sense, even if with no sources. I mean, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes (or even Katie Holmes) to figure an out of playoff Stars teams will trade off vets with no contracts to get something from them rather than lose them for nothing next year. Yes, Fids has a cheap year left and could be valuable to a contender, too.

So, Horcoff, Cole maybe Eaves will be in the rumor mill. Any core guys won't be traded, as in the example up this thread of the value of Roussel. If it is a young player, and you trade him for a future pick, you still need to replace him, so the value isn't there for a team that expects to be competitive in a few years time.

It will be interesting. I think we will improve a bit, and it will be a tough call to keep competing with who we have vs. trading them off and writing off the season to help the future. Two years ago we were sellers with Roy, Jags and Morrow, all classed as second line to first line guys. In the end, our haul wasn't all that great.

Morrow for Morrow - Morrow flipped to BOS so maybe a tenth of TS goals for Morrow
Jags - the first is Dickinson and the others are out of the organization with no value received
Roy - forget who we used the second on, but KC was waived.

Based on that, unless we get a late first, it may not be worth it. Cole might bring a 2 pick, Horcoff a 3 and Eaves a 4 (all guesses at best possible value from a desperate team, and return probably one pick lower for all.) But, just a guess. We might want our second round pick back, and it might even be something like Cole and a 4th for a 2nd, or something like that to balance value. Overall, With seconds and prospects, you have to hit the mother lode and get lucky to make it really pay off.

The real value is in the El Tanko.

Great post. Thanks.

 

[Hull Fan]

Some rumors are made up based on past associations (he played for XX, the coach wants him back)

Others are common sense, even if with no sources. I mean, it doesn't take Sherlock Holmes (or even Katie Holmes) to figure an out of playoff Stars teams will trade off vets with no contracts to get something from them rather than lose them for nothing next year. Yes, Fids has a cheap year left and could be valuable to a contender, too.

So, Horcoff, Cole maybe Eaves will be in the rumor mill. Any core guys won't be traded, as in the example up this thread of the value of Roussel. If it is a young player, and you trade him for a future pick, you still need to replace him, so the value isn't there for a team that expects to be competitive in a few years time.

It will be interesting. I think we will improve a bit, and it will be a tough call to keep competing with who we have vs. trading them off and writing off the season to help the future. Two years ago we were sellers with Roy, Jags and Morrow, all classed as second line to first line guys. In the end, our haul wasn't all that great.

Morrow for Morrow - Morrow flipped to BOS so maybe a tenth of TS goals for Morrow
Jags - the first is Dickinson and the others are out of the organization with no value received
Roy - forget who we used the second on, but KC was waived.

Based on that, unless we get a late first, it may not be worth it. Cole might bring a 2 pick, Horcoff a 3 and Eaves a 4 (all guesses at best possible value from a desperate team, and return probably one pick lower for all.) But, just a guess. We might want our second round pick back, and it might even be something like Cole and a 4th for a 2nd, or something like that to balance value. Overall, With seconds and prospects, you have to hit the mother lode and get lucky to make it really pay off.

The real value is in the El Tanko.

Yeah you may not get back the greatest picks for those players but this club has a history of hitting on later round picks so the more the better. Also by trading those players you open up permanent spots for guys like McKenzie, Ritchie, and maybe Faska or Glennie. You get a month trial period to see how they handle the NHL and whether they're ready for full time duty out of the gate next season or whether Nill should find other stop gap veterans to fill those holes. Just because Joe Nieuwendyk didn't trade well at the deadline outside of Morrow for Morrow and a conditional 1st for Jagr doesn't mean Nill will fail.

Jamie Benn, Colton Sceviour, Philip Larsen (Horcoff), Curtis McKenzie, Reilly Smith, John Klingberg, Alex Guptill/Nick Paul (Spezza), and Jyrki Jokipakka have all contributed.

Stransky, Sinitsyn, Troock, G. Smith, Lindell, Makela, Paulovic, Ully, Hannson, Nyberg, Haydon, Moran are all still on the radar. Some of them have contracts and some are going to earn them. There's at least 4 future NHLers in that group. All of them were taken in the 3rd round or later.

Selling your vets for late picks isn't a bad thing in a lost year. It's what good GMs do to restock the cupboard. That may be especially true in this deep draft when we don't have a 2nd round pick.

 

[FirstRowUpperDeck]

Thanks. I agree a draft pick is always a good thing (maybe we should accept only 5th round picks) if you absolutely know Cole and Horcoff, et all are NOT in your plans. To be honest, I wonder if Nil would bring both (and Fids and Eaves) back for depth next year. But they still have to field a team in 15-16 and I doubt it will be all rookies. So, they might be willing to keep the vets, if there is an agreement in place to bring them back at a more realistic value.

In short the value of that low pick is less if we have to spend another low pick to get some depth veterans. If we use UFA, then fine.


Of course, there is a secondary value of needing to replace Cole, Horcoff and Eaves or Fids minutes - we might get Faksa, Ritchie and even Dickenson some NHL minutes in a low stress environment. Maybe even Honka and Shore and the others you mention. Those 15 games might expedite their progress to the NHL by a year. We can hope.

Campbell should get a 15 game tryout after we decide we are out of it at his age.

 

[OttMorrow]

Campbell should get a 15 game tryout after we decide we are out of it at his age.

I agree. We need to figure out if Campbell really is the heir to Kari's throne, especially the way Kari is playing. We may not have the luxury of time that we thought we had for Campbell to get polished in the AHL. The sooner we find out what he's made of, the better.This way Nill can decide whether we need to address goaltending in the summer in the form of a 1a/1b tandem.

 

[Evgeny Oliker]

Also

Chris Phillips has been a healthy scratch for Ottawa lately.

He is not as good as Methot and is now 36. But he would still provide a good defensive veteran presence. I think he is worth a look if he doesn't cost much (shouldnt).

 

[Dallasman]

Chris Phillips has been a healthy scratch for Ottawa lately.

He is not as good as Methot and is now 36. But he would still provide a good defensive veteran presence. I think he is worth a look if he doesn't cost much (shouldnt).

I thought I've heard somewhere that he wants to be a Senator for his career so I don't think he's an option.

 

[Mr Misty]

What does 15 games of garbage time in front of this team prove Campbell can do? If he plays well he screws up the tank, if he plays poorly then we haven't really learned anything. Whether to have a 1a/1b system for next season is not something we need an experiment to figure out, it should be pretty clear that doing whatever it takes to get a solid goalie in free agency is essential to success next season.

 

[OttMorrow]

What does 15 games of garbage time in front of this team prove Campbell can do? If he plays well he screws up the tank

Good point. The last thing we want to do is mess up the tank.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

Don't pull a Chiasson

 

[SolidusAKA]

Just spitballing the Dreger/Hall rumour,

To Dallas:

Taylor Hall

To Edmonton:
Nichushkin
2015 1st
Oleksiak
Horcoff (Cap dump)

Am I being stupid? Too much for Hall?

2015
Benn - Seguin - Ritchie
Hall - Spezza - Hemsky

 

[dechire]

I really do not want Hall and his bad attitude and his godawful defensive "play" on the Stars. Especially if it costs players that aren't complete disasters.

 

[Primetimey*]

I do that deal for Hall.

 

[FrailSwan]

Hmmmm Nichushkin or Ritchie? I wish we had one more prolific talent so that we could save both of them. But I'd do a deal somewhat like that.

 

[Frozen Failure]

I pass so hard on Hall. So hard so fast.

The last thing this team needs is more high end forward talent. We need some ******* mid tier forward talent and you're giving it AND our first AND our defensive depth for that?

Puh-lease.

 

[TangoMcBride]

I'm not giving that up for the NHL's most overrated player.

 

[StarsTx]

Probably close to fair value for Hall, or at least what they would expect.

I'd love to have Hall, I don't care who says what, the guy can score. Young ppg players with room to improve do not grow on trees.

However, no way I'd ever consider giving up Nuke, Big Rig, and a 2015 1st.
I'd maybe consider either Nuke or Big Rig and 2016 1st, cap dump and a b prospect.

The way I see it, it's a proven ppg young player in Hall, but you'd have the potential to be fleeced if what we are giving up lives up to potential. Nuke 60+ potential if not ppg, Big Rig top 3d potential, and the way the season has gone 2015 1st sky is the limit.

 

[SolidusAKA]

Its definitely a lot, but im not sure I dont do it. There is no sign any of Nuke, Oleksiak, or the 1st will be anything more than Hall is now. Age old 'tangibility vs. potential' debate. I dunno...

Im much more excited about Honka, Klingberg, Lindell, Nemeth than Oleksiak

Im more sold on Hall now than Nichushkin in the future...but I would vomit blood if Nuke became the player we think he could be

The first, if its in the 9-14 range could be very meh...

I think you can pick up the depth on FA and other trades later....not to mention Ritchie, Dickinson, Ully, Pollock

Benn/Seguin/Ritchie
Hall/Spezza/Dickinson/Ully
Roussel/Eakin/McKenzie/FA
Faksa/Pollock/Elie/Stransky/FA

Klingberg/Nemeth/Honka/Lindell/Demers/Jokipakka/Haydon/FA

Lehtonen/Campbell/Desrosiers

Obviously tons of "If's", but we also have a super young group that Im confident in

The way I see it, it's a proven ppg young player in Hall, but you'd have the potential to be fleeced if what we are giving up lives up to potential. Nuke 60+ potential if not ppg, Big Rig top 3d potential, and the way the season has gone 2015 1st sky is the limit.

True, but I think its the excess of Big Rig and the 2015 1st that pays for the uncertainty. Edmonton doesnt need 'lots of potential', they need MASSIVE amounts of potential to move Hall. Nuke, Oleksiak, and the 1st (whoever that may be) could either all be just as good as Hall OR a total collection of future busts that you gave up a franchise player for. Edmonton is trading a proven winger for an unproven blue chip winger for the SURPLUS of a solid pick and a developing top-4 defensemen. Again, a lot to think about.

EDIT: I swear that's the last time I edit that last sentence

 

[BigG44]

Wait ... what Hall rumor?

EDIT: NVM ... I thought you were referring to one that specifically tied him to Dallas. It was just a general statement I see.

 

[SolidusAKA]

Wait ... what Hall rumor?

http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/20...r-taylor-hall-will-be-in-play-in-trade-talks/

 

[BigG44]

Well that link makes trading Nichushkin and a 2015 first even more absurd. Nichushkin may or may not be a high end talent, but the potential is there. That 2015 pick also has the same chance of being a very high end talent as well.

It would have to be one or the other, and given their experience with Yakupov you at least have to wonder how open they'd be to another Russian.

This is talking about going down at the draft. You'd probably need a Top 5 pick or very close to it, and then the additional pieces like Oleksiak or others ... but not Nuke. That's pretty much insane. You don't give up two premium assets for a shot at one. Nuke, the pick, or both could have a similar impact on this team as Hall. If you could get him for one plus some fluff ... maybe. If he costs both it's a pretty ridiculous risk.

Depending on where Dallas ends up ... that pick could be the answer to your #1 D or a number of high scoring, high talent forwards.

Nuke and that pick are significantly better than just having Hall IMO.