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GregSirico
KakkoSZN
I think that whole Carolina thing is all hot air honestly. If Staal finds a place where he can have top mins + play with some talented fwds I think he will stay ... can Carolina offer that to him? YES, but so can the Ducks.
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
Glen Sathers Cigar
Sather 4 Ever
What do you guys think the odds are of Tortorella adjusting his system? I mean, it seems pretty obvious that is what he needs to do...the fans are saying it, the media is saying it and the best player on the team (Hank) is visibly upset with the system and it leading to no goals.
However, we all know how headstrong Torts is. I could see him continuing to try and get this group of players to play how the 11-12 team played, even if it still doesn't work.
I hope he goes and modifies it. You can still have a solid defensive team while being a high pressure uptempo team. Honestly, that seems to be how you HAVE to play in order to have success in the NHL these days.
However, we all know how headstrong Torts is. I could see him continuing to try and get this group of players to play how the 11-12 team played, even if it still doesn't work.
I hope he goes and modifies it. You can still have a solid defensive team while being a high pressure uptempo team. Honestly, that seems to be how you HAVE to play in order to have success in the NHL these days.
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
I do not disagree one bit ... however I think this team still lacks scoring punch on the top 6.
Torts would be stupid NOT to change it up at this point. If he still doesn't, then he gets fired in all likelihood.
don't think the answer is to add onto more one-dimensional scoring wingers. IMO, the biggest issues are C depth and RH offensive, skating Dmen.
There is too much to say and too little time...
A lot of you guys
with some of the crazy proposals in the last thread: Del Zotto and a throw in for Yakupov? Meanwhile, while Girardi's stock was high, and finally rebuffed on Taylor Hall (not as to value but because he's their face of the franchise) I had more credible Girardi + for Yakupov, only to get flamed here.
Those who do not learn the lesson of going 1 or 2 steps backwards to have a good enough shot at 5+ steps forwards, are dooming the club to continued suffering. We gambled and lost on Clowe, who was not a good investment, because of his footspeed, and now minus the picks we are trying to make the best of the situation.
That said, here are my latest thoughts.
We need a comprehensive strategy that moves out vets, adds younger talent that can grow as we stay ahead of being under the cap.
Repeat after me: THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS.
Ok, fire Torts, that's easy. Sullivan + Gernander as bench/assistant are fine in either order. But the real coach is our captain, Ryan Callahan.
Hank -- It will be obvious what we are doing. Offer him a base of 5 mil/yr + bonuses, which kick in with performance but also is a way of paying him most of what is not spent on getting up to the full cap. We make it open ended, only 1 year, for 7 years, he can buy out of his contract anytime for $1, but he has to give us one full year's notice.
Trades:
The AVs will not flip the 1st to us for "the 5th +". They want nothing less than McDonagh from us, or Hedman from TB, etc. They want lefties, but not Staal. They may be having second thoughts, but because they are deep at C, LD should do it.
I've come to the conclusion that the smart thing to do would be take McKinnon with the first pick overall. It is not clear if he will need the same time Tavares did, but this could be the guy, in short while, who would not only be a sniper in a pinch, but a serious 1C. Possibly better than anybody we can expect except Malkin if he comes, and adding a guy like McKinnon as a protege under him might encourage Malkin to consider us more seriously.
They don't want to throw him in, but I believe we can also pry like 8th overall Duncan Siemens with the 1st if we add another useful lefty, Del Zotto. There may be a thought to balance them not as a pair (i.e., one puck mover, one stay at home) but the thought of Siemens - McIlrath is totally kick ass.
So trade 1: McDonagh + MDZ for the 1st (McKinnon) + Siemens
[Also, if McD wants to head out to the heartland for personal reasons, COL would be closer than NY.]
Trade 2: Staal/Staal + to CAR for 5th overall + Y
Trade 3: Stepan + CAR for 5th overall to FL for 2nd overall + Z
With McK in the fold Stepan is enough to land a pick which gets Jones.
It is expected Z will obviously be nice prospects and/or high future FL pick
Tallon's gotta like a 1C and that high pick
Trade 4: Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas + Taylor Pyatt + Calle Andersson
to CBH
for Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeil, Pat Beach + Adam Clendenning + one of Rangers 3 thirds this year. Rangers may have to further add, slightly.
Olsen, a lefty shot, is listed as RD, but I expect can adjust if needed Clendenning righty shot RD. Beach is short term project, big, strong bust but cheap filler for a year. McNeil a legit first, but is coming along slowly needs seasoning.
Hawks do this cause Boyle is a nice fall back to lower 6, Thomas + Anderson are nice picks, Pyatt better filler if needed more likely a cap dump, cheap to another team for a 6th/7th. And the best of our 3rds in a deep draft is good value.
Trade 5: Girardi + and a future Ranger 2nd to TOR for future Maple Leafs 1st and Gardiner
Kinda obvious, no explanations necessary.
Trade 6: McNeil + Stralman + Eminger + Newbury to Edmonton for a lefty D prospects Oscar Klefbom (1st rounder), Martin Marincin (2nd rounder), and Martin Gernat (5th rounder) + 2nd round C Tyler Pitlick
McNeil and Klefborm are close overalll, Klef being 19th overall in 2011, and McN one ahead that year. Stralman is a solid 4, Eminger a solid 6/7, and they are righties, which are in short supply, so there is some nominal value added. Newbury adds grit.
Edmonton gets a legit 3C w2C potential available soon, 1 D who definitely makes the roster now, another who competes, a likely 4th liner who provides grit Oiler fans complain about not having.
Rangers have better upside, but unclear as to how fast these picks are here, though Klefbom + Marincin are likely for this year.
-------------
Clowe do not re-sign, Clowe of 5 years ago, ok, but this was desperate gamble, he's got jam, but losing footspeed. Most importantly, he'd cost a future 2nd. Just say no.
Richards. Make an effort -- Slats this is you --- to see if some kind of exception can be agreed to between NHLPA + league, either as to just Richards, or more realistically, to all similar scenarios.
If yes, then trade for best return.
If no, then keep as possible 4C for 1 yr or do a Redden then amnesty him.
Why not amnesty now?
I would be open to that, but unless you really use that buyout for good free agent signings, then it makes more biz sense in long run to amnesty next year and save both cap + $$ if I understand the figures correctly.
With moving all these guys who were soon due for raises, etc, we should have enough cap space to sign a couple of UFAs if we want. I say if Chicago passes on Bickell and Stralberg, sign both BUT ONLY FOR 1 YEAR. They may consider that if Rangers have shot to win, and NY offers high profile, and they can, after only next year, having shown this season was not a fluke, get really set up for a serious payday, they may consider the one year gamble for increased payout.
I would also look now at grooming Randy McNaught for the 4L RW after Asham. Just to see if he could cut the 5-6 min per night. I don't say he's got the D skills and his development has been interrupted. But he is big, hits like a truck, would do serious corner checking, drop the gloves.
Now, guess what all that gets ya!
F:
Hagelin, McKinnon Nash
Kreider Brassard Callahan
Bickel Miller Stalberg
Beach Lindberg Asham
Powe Haley Dorset
Yogan Pitlick Fast
and other prospect core (NIeves, Noreau, etc. still good)
I would also like to see Kreider a few extra shifts experimenting at C, but only on a super speed line: Hagelin, Miller Cally Stralberg as wingers.
And the D:
LD RD
Moore Jones
Gardiner Clendenning
Klefbom Olsen
Marincin Gernat
Siemens - McIlrath
G:
Lundqvist
Talbot
I think we go younger, start grooming Talbot, see what Blues want for Jake Allen, who may be #3 over there
Oh yeah, and we upgraded our future 2nd to a Maple Leaf 1st.
EDIT CORRECT: last sentence unnecessary
A lot of you guys
with some of the crazy proposals in the last thread: Del Zotto and a throw in for Yakupov? Meanwhile, while Girardi's stock was high, and finally rebuffed on Taylor Hall (not as to value but because he's their face of the franchise) I had more credible Girardi + for Yakupov, only to get flamed here.Those who do not learn the lesson of going 1 or 2 steps backwards to have a good enough shot at 5+ steps forwards, are dooming the club to continued suffering. We gambled and lost on Clowe, who was not a good investment, because of his footspeed, and now minus the picks we are trying to make the best of the situation.
That said, here are my latest thoughts.
We need a comprehensive strategy that moves out vets, adds younger talent that can grow as we stay ahead of being under the cap.
Repeat after me: THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS. THERE ARE NO SACRED COWS.
Ok, fire Torts, that's easy. Sullivan + Gernander as bench/assistant are fine in either order. But the real coach is our captain, Ryan Callahan.
Hank -- It will be obvious what we are doing. Offer him a base of 5 mil/yr + bonuses, which kick in with performance but also is a way of paying him most of what is not spent on getting up to the full cap. We make it open ended, only 1 year, for 7 years, he can buy out of his contract anytime for $1, but he has to give us one full year's notice.
Trades:
The AVs will not flip the 1st to us for "the 5th +". They want nothing less than McDonagh from us, or Hedman from TB, etc. They want lefties, but not Staal. They may be having second thoughts, but because they are deep at C, LD should do it.
I've come to the conclusion that the smart thing to do would be take McKinnon with the first pick overall. It is not clear if he will need the same time Tavares did, but this could be the guy, in short while, who would not only be a sniper in a pinch, but a serious 1C. Possibly better than anybody we can expect except Malkin if he comes, and adding a guy like McKinnon as a protege under him might encourage Malkin to consider us more seriously.
They don't want to throw him in, but I believe we can also pry like 8th overall Duncan Siemens with the 1st if we add another useful lefty, Del Zotto. There may be a thought to balance them not as a pair (i.e., one puck mover, one stay at home) but the thought of Siemens - McIlrath is totally kick ass.
So trade 1: McDonagh + MDZ for the 1st (McKinnon) + Siemens
[Also, if McD wants to head out to the heartland for personal reasons, COL would be closer than NY.]
Trade 2: Staal/Staal + to CAR for 5th overall + Y
Trade 3: Stepan + CAR for 5th overall to FL for 2nd overall + Z
With McK in the fold Stepan is enough to land a pick which gets Jones.
It is expected Z will obviously be nice prospects and/or high future FL pick
Tallon's gotta like a 1C and that high pick
Trade 4: Brian Boyle + Christian Thomas + Taylor Pyatt + Calle Andersson
to CBH
for Dylan Olsen, Mark McNeil, Pat Beach + Adam Clendenning + one of Rangers 3 thirds this year. Rangers may have to further add, slightly.
Olsen, a lefty shot, is listed as RD, but I expect can adjust if needed Clendenning righty shot RD. Beach is short term project, big, strong bust but cheap filler for a year. McNeil a legit first, but is coming along slowly needs seasoning.
Hawks do this cause Boyle is a nice fall back to lower 6, Thomas + Anderson are nice picks, Pyatt better filler if needed more likely a cap dump, cheap to another team for a 6th/7th. And the best of our 3rds in a deep draft is good value.
Trade 5: Girardi + and a future Ranger 2nd to TOR for future Maple Leafs 1st and Gardiner
Kinda obvious, no explanations necessary.
Trade 6: McNeil + Stralman + Eminger + Newbury to Edmonton for a lefty D prospects Oscar Klefbom (1st rounder), Martin Marincin (2nd rounder), and Martin Gernat (5th rounder) + 2nd round C Tyler Pitlick
McNeil and Klefborm are close overalll, Klef being 19th overall in 2011, and McN one ahead that year. Stralman is a solid 4, Eminger a solid 6/7, and they are righties, which are in short supply, so there is some nominal value added. Newbury adds grit.
Edmonton gets a legit 3C w2C potential available soon, 1 D who definitely makes the roster now, another who competes, a likely 4th liner who provides grit Oiler fans complain about not having.
Rangers have better upside, but unclear as to how fast these picks are here, though Klefbom + Marincin are likely for this year.
-------------
Clowe do not re-sign, Clowe of 5 years ago, ok, but this was desperate gamble, he's got jam, but losing footspeed. Most importantly, he'd cost a future 2nd. Just say no.
Richards. Make an effort -- Slats this is you --- to see if some kind of exception can be agreed to between NHLPA + league, either as to just Richards, or more realistically, to all similar scenarios.
If yes, then trade for best return.
If no, then keep as possible 4C for 1 yr or do a Redden then amnesty him.
Why not amnesty now?
I would be open to that, but unless you really use that buyout for good free agent signings, then it makes more biz sense in long run to amnesty next year and save both cap + $$ if I understand the figures correctly.
With moving all these guys who were soon due for raises, etc, we should have enough cap space to sign a couple of UFAs if we want. I say if Chicago passes on Bickell and Stralberg, sign both BUT ONLY FOR 1 YEAR. They may consider that if Rangers have shot to win, and NY offers high profile, and they can, after only next year, having shown this season was not a fluke, get really set up for a serious payday, they may consider the one year gamble for increased payout.
I would also look now at grooming Randy McNaught for the 4L RW after Asham. Just to see if he could cut the 5-6 min per night. I don't say he's got the D skills and his development has been interrupted. But he is big, hits like a truck, would do serious corner checking, drop the gloves.
Now, guess what all that gets ya!
F:
Hagelin, McKinnon Nash
Kreider Brassard Callahan
Bickel Miller Stalberg
Beach Lindberg Asham
Powe Haley Dorset
Yogan Pitlick Fast
and other prospect core (NIeves, Noreau, etc. still good)
I would also like to see Kreider a few extra shifts experimenting at C, but only on a super speed line: Hagelin, Miller Cally Stralberg as wingers.
And the D:
LD RD
Moore Jones
Gardiner Clendenning
Klefbom Olsen
Marincin Gernat
Siemens - McIlrath
G:
Lundqvist
Talbot
I think we go younger, start grooming Talbot, see what Blues want for Jake Allen, who may be #3 over there
Oh yeah, and we upgraded our future 2nd to a Maple Leaf 1st.
EDIT CORRECT: last sentence unnecessary
Last edited:
pld459666
Registered User
Made Dan
Registered User
LaffyTaffyNYR
Registered User
- Feb 25, 2012
- 17,113
- 2,662
bern, smfh.. I read all that then look at that team and pretty much puke.. Hank would walk out the door and not look back after next year
GregSirico
KakkoSZN
There's only about 5 players in the league I would deal him for ... and none are available I assure you.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
I think Ryan is a bit overrated. I like him and would add him for the right price. But I am not sure another winger who doesn't carry the puck a ton is the answer for this team.
Also RE the idea that the Rangers' defensive system is bad for Lundqvist due to deflections / screens. To play devil's advocate - couldn't you argue that the reason those are the plays that beat him because they are all the Rangers give up when playing their system well? Obviously all teams have breakdowns. But if the Rangers were more aggressive, thus giving up more odd man rushes and especially allowing other teams to outnumber them down low in the dzone would Hank's numbers be what they are?
I certainly think you could say that he is good enough to overcome that. I think you could say that more pressure on the points and fludity in the dzone would force more turnovers and allow the Rangers to not get pinned as much. But I also think you could argue that stripping away the rigid structure could increase goals against purely by increasing quality of opportunities and would 100% need to result in more offense to keep the Ws and Ls the same...
Also RE the idea that the Rangers' defensive system is bad for Lundqvist due to deflections / screens. To play devil's advocate - couldn't you argue that the reason those are the plays that beat him because they are all the Rangers give up when playing their system well? Obviously all teams have breakdowns. But if the Rangers were more aggressive, thus giving up more odd man rushes and especially allowing other teams to outnumber them down low in the dzone would Hank's numbers be what they are?
I certainly think you could say that he is good enough to overcome that. I think you could say that more pressure on the points and fludity in the dzone would force more turnovers and allow the Rangers to not get pinned as much. But I also think you could argue that stripping away the rigid structure could increase goals against purely by increasing quality of opportunities and would 100% need to result in more offense to keep the Ws and Ls the same...
KreidertheGlider
MDZ for NYR Blueline
I dont think Kreider is smart or defensive enough for a Center role. He can barely handle his assignments on the wing
But I did enjoy the proposal Bern
But I did enjoy the proposal Bern
I'm new to hockey, and to the Rangers, so I can't chime in too much. So, I want someone to correct me on this:
I felt that one our bigger weaknesses was at the points. Besides Mcdonagh, and Girardi, we didn't have many defensemen that could contain the puck and take slapshots. I thought there were too many times when we could have maintained the puck in our zone but it was able to get past us, killing our momentum.
MDZ is a good example of not being able to take shots, since a majority of his shots go wide every time. I want defensemen that could take solid shots at the point that will create rebounds and/or deflections down low.
Defensemen that could help us? I don't know that much about hockey to provide suggestions.
I felt that one our bigger weaknesses was at the points. Besides Mcdonagh, and Girardi, we didn't have many defensemen that could contain the puck and take slapshots. I thought there were too many times when we could have maintained the puck in our zone but it was able to get past us, killing our momentum.
MDZ is a good example of not being able to take shots, since a majority of his shots go wide every time. I want defensemen that could take solid shots at the point that will create rebounds and/or deflections down low.
Defensemen that could help us? I don't know that much about hockey to provide suggestions.
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
MDZ's inability to hit the net on the slapper is a huge detriment to this team both 5v5 and on the PP. He really needs to change the curve on his stick if he can't keep that **** down. When he misses the net hard and wide it inevitably results in the other team coming down the ice with numbers.
cd211
Registered User
so DZ for a fwd or Dman..
I think Col and edm are teams to watch.. a lot of changes going on in the organizations and theyve been rebuilding way to long...
col
i would try MDZ + for E. Johnson
*doubtful tho bc they gave up Shattenkirk so they might feel like they have to keep him.. but if available, id go all over it.. perfect partner for staal..
MCD-Girardi
Staal-Johnson
Moore-Stralman/McIrath if ready..
or
MDZ+ for Eberle
Kreider-Stepan-Eberle
Clowe-Brass-Nash
Hall would be a kings ransom.. as would nail and RNH..
Bobby ryan would be a pipeline dream.. phi would give up the world for him, if available..
I dont want to make to many trades.. I rather add FA.. if not this summer I would wait for 14'... Malkin if Available, Kessel, Pavelski, stasny Phaneof (crease clearing/hard shot) would play perfect with Girardi IMO if cost is reasonable..
I think Col and edm are teams to watch.. a lot of changes going on in the organizations and theyve been rebuilding way to long...
col
i would try MDZ + for E. Johnson
*doubtful tho bc they gave up Shattenkirk so they might feel like they have to keep him.. but if available, id go all over it.. perfect partner for staal..
MCD-Girardi
Staal-Johnson
Moore-Stralman/McIrath if ready..
or
MDZ+ for Eberle
Kreider-Stepan-Eberle
Clowe-Brass-Nash
Hall would be a kings ransom.. as would nail and RNH..
Bobby ryan would be a pipeline dream.. phi would give up the world for him, if available..
I dont want to make to many trades.. I rather add FA.. if not this summer I would wait for 14'... Malkin if Available, Kessel, Pavelski, stasny Phaneof (crease clearing/hard shot) would play perfect with Girardi IMO if cost is reasonable..
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