2013 New Jersey Devils (Team/Player Discussion)-Offseason FA and trade talk Part XVII

[Richer's Ghost]

Hagelin is 24 years old making $2.25M on a 2 year deal and had 24pts last season and 141 games played with 71 pts total if that helps for comparing.

 

[Bleedred]

31 goals compared to 16 goals does not make for a similar season.

Their point total was not far off. Parise had 62 points in 82 games, Henrique had 53 in 74. That's like a 4 point difference if Henrique played 82 games.

 

[tsipka]

Hagelin is 24 years old making $2.25M on a 2 year deal and had 24pts last season and 141 games played with 71 pts total if that helps for comparing.

If Henrique is getting a 2 year bridge deal, look for it to be around what Hagelin is making. Should not be more than 2.5 million per.

 

[devilsblood]

I was told on the main board the other day that to get Landeskog for Henrique it would be Henrique ++ and that Lou would trade Henrique for Lando in an instant.

Landeskog is 3 yrs younger, and has more goals. I think Lou would make that trade without much hesitation.

Their point total was not far off. Parise had 62 points in 82 games, Henrique had 53 in 74. That's like a 4 point difference if Henrique played 82 games.

Nitpicking, but it was 51 pts. And goals are worth more then assists when it comes to contract negotiations.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Landeskog is 3 yrs younger, and has more goals. I think Lou would make that trade without much hesitation.

4 more goals, big deal. their ceiling is the same exact type of player IMO, and Henrique plays the more difficult position

I am just making a point.

 

[britdevil]

I was told on the main board the other day that to get Landeskog for Henrique it would be Henrique ++ and that Lou would trade Henrique for Lando in an instant.

I think Lou would...

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I highly doubt it. Henrique is a known, you know what you have with him.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Lou would in an instant. Landeskog's ceiling is >>>> than Adam's.

 

[devilsblood]

4 more goals, big deal. their ceiling is the same exact type of player IMO, and Henrique plays the more difficult position

I am just making a point.

4 more goals and 3 years younger. Guy is 20. And he has not had the luxury of playing with the type of talent Henrique has.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

4 more goals and 3 years younger. Guy is 20. And he has not had the luxury of playing with the type of talent Henrique has.

I did forget how much this place loves young guys.

its almost better to be 18 and unproven than 22 and have proven something

 

[devilsblood]

I highly doubt it. Henrique is a known, you know what you have with him.

Which is what exactly?

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I did forget how much this place loves young guys.

its almost better to be 18 and unproven than 22 and have proven something

What did Henrique prove? That can can put up 50 points between the best wing combo in hockey (arguably?)?

Putting up one good year is hardly "proving" anything, which is why I think his contract will be significantly lower than some around these parts think.

Age is quite important because that means his projection is >>> than Henrique's.

 

[devilsblood]

I did forget how much this place loves young guys.

its almost better to be 18 and unproven than 22 and have proven something

But he's younger AND has more goals. This is not perenial NHL All-Star vs's kid from Juniors.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

nevermind. sorry I brought this up.

Henrique and Landeskog's ceilings are the exact same player. I dont care that one is three freaking years older.

won't talk about it anymore.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

nevermind. sorry I brought this up.

Henrique and Landeskog's ceilings are the exact same player. I dont care that one is three freaking years older.

won't talk about it anymore.

Which is clearly why one was a second overall pick and one was a third round pick.

Don't post your opinion on the internet if you aren't open to a discussion/criticism. "Wah! No one agrees with me I'm not talking about it anymore!"

C'mon now.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Which is clearly why one was a second overall pick and one was a third round pick.

Don't post your opinion on the internet if you aren't open to a discussion/criticism. "Wah! No one agrees with me I'm not talking about it anymore!"

C'mon now.

so now youre bringing up draft position in your argument, but when I brought it up in mine last week when discussing Loktionov it was somehow not valid or relevant?


hm. got it.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

so now youre bringing up draft position in your argument, but when I brought it up in mine last week when discussing Loktionov it was somehow not valid or relevant?


hm. got it.

Context. Where Loktionov fell because of signability concerns (Radulov freaked a lot of people out and Lokti said initially he wouldn't sign) Henrique fell on ability and ability alone.

Clearly scouts are wrong but to say something like "age doesn't matter" when discussing potential/ceiling is a little bit homer-ish. Of course age matters. And if a younger guy is performing at the level of an older guy of course you can say his ceiling is higher. He's got 3 years on Adam. 3 years to pass him developmentally.

 

[Scott04]

Which is clearly why one was a second overall pick and one was a third round pick.

Don't post your opinion on the internet if you aren't open to a discussion/criticism. "Wah! No one agrees with me I'm not talking about it anymore!"

C'mon now.

Ceiling is not the same as expectations. Ceiling is the best they can be. Expectations, which is the factor that people are drafted/signed for, its what the scouts believe the player's ceiling is. This statement is not made in support of, or against the idea of comparing Henrique and Landeskog. But the two words are not interchangeable.

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't see what's so wrong that given age 'and' draft position saying Landeskog probably has the higher celing. Neither is a finished product yet, but Landeskog wasn't putting up his numbers between two All-Stars either.

Does that mean I'd trade Henrique plus for him? No, given the fact Henrique can play center and we don't have a lot of pluses to give up anyway. And the current difference isn't so great that I'd want to give up an asset of any real value.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Also I think it's incredibly convenient to just dismiss Adam's poor year. We're talking 16 points in 42 games no matter how many excuses we want to throw at the wall.

So I bet that's part of the hold up with Adam. Lou isn't going to pay him top-prospect money when he flat-out sucked last year. And I think it's difficult to say we wouldn't move Henrique for someone who was under team control for a few years.

I bet Lou is kicking himself a little bit for not selling high on Adam after putting up 50 points on route to a Calder finalist year.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Also I think it's incredibly convenient to just dismiss Adam's poor year. We're talking 16 points in 42 games no matter how many excuses we want to throw at the wall.

So I bet that's part of the hold up with Adam. Lou isn't going to pay him top-prospect money when he flat-out sucked last year. And I think it's difficult to say we wouldn't move Henrique for someone who was under team control for a few years.

I bet Lou is kicking himself a little bit for not selling high on Adam after putting up 50 points on route to a Calder finalist year.

yea you're right, he should've traded him after a very good rookie season....

and Henrique is under team control for at LEAST 4 more years. Landeskog is 5 I believe since hes already played 2 years. big whoop.

 

[devilsblood]

If age and draft position are of no relevance in evaluating a players ceiling then why are guys so high on Larsson? Not as though he has lit up the league in his first couple years.

 

[CerebralGenesis]

I did forget how much this place loves young guys.

its almost better to be 18 and unproven than 22 and have proven something

Crazy isn't it?

 

[devilsblood]

Also I think it's incredibly convenient to just dismiss Adam's poor year. We're talking 16 points in 42 games no matter how many excuses we want to throw at the wall.

So I bet that's part of the hold up with Adam. Lou isn't going to pay him top-prospect money when he flat-out sucked last year. And I think it's difficult to say we wouldn't move Henrique for someone who was under team control for a few years.

I bet Lou is kicking himself a little bit for not selling high on Adam after putting up 50 points on route to a Calder finalist year.

Trading him after the goal that sent us to the SCF? C'mon now.

And as I said in another post, I didn't think he was as bad as some did this past year. He did net 11 goals in 44ish games.

but comparing ceilings to a Landeskog? Nah. Colorado kid certainly has more high end potential and as solid a proven record.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Trading him after the goal that sent us to the SCF? C'mon now.

And as I said in another post, I didn't think he was as bad as some did this past year. He did net 11 goals in 44ish games.

but comparing ceilings to a Landeskog? Nah. Colorado kid certainly has more high end potential and as solid a proven record.

tell me why Landeskog's ceiling is higher

Landeskog is never going to be a point per game player at the NHL level or anything like that. the 2 players play very similar games, but Henrique plays the tougher position.