We're a contender that's chosen to wait until prospects are overripe to promote them or waive them for opportunities on other teams. This obviously delays games played. Further, being a contender, we've been drafting late every year and have often dealt several picks for playoff runs.
This is another point of contention for myself as well.
Is it truly that we choose to develop prospects slowly, or is it that we have trouble developing prospects?
Am I blaming Ray for choosing the wrong guy when in reality it has been our implimented system?
For a hypothetical, lets look at a former Penguin draft pick (whom I was dead wrong about btw), Matt Moulson.
Had he stayed with the Penguins, would he progressed as he did?
And, if he had, coming on the big club in 2010, would Bylsma had even given him a shot with his skating issues?
The question sort of being, would Moulson still be Moulson had he remained a Penguin?
I am concerned with DB's ability to develop forwards to be honest. He prefers giving playing time to those grinders presumably because he knows that game, what they bring inside and out. Because that is exactly what he was.
A guy like BB, our first really good forward prospect under Bylsma has a chance to be something special and am hoping that Dan doesnt mess it up.
Bringing him along slowly is one thing. But taking him out of games inatead of others more deserving is another.
Dan wasnt doing that to bring him on slowly. My concern is that Bylsma doesnt know how to bring them along at all.
I guess we shall see.
Rowdy Roddy Peeper said:
In spite of these barriers to developing prospects, we have still drafted multiple players outside the 1st round likely to break your arbitrary 100 game plateau very shortly. Contrary to what you believe, getting 4 players past the 1st round (Bortuzzo, Jeffrey, Strait, Muzzin) out of essentially two drafts between '06 and '08 about to hit that mark isn't "alarming". It's impressive.
I realize that my number was completely arbitrary. I just assigned a random number to whatever I thought would be fair to give someone who could be considered an average to above average NHL player.
We can certainly take it out of the equation entirely if you wish as it really isnt a be all and end all to the discussion.
Even in taking it out however, my point remains the exact same. Out of his first 3 drafts, he hasnt taken one guy who is yet an everyday NHL player. Now these four look like they are there but that is yet to be determined.
And again, only Muzzin has the POTENTIAL to be above average. Realisticly, he is probably a bottom pairing D who is a powerplay specialist.
Bottom pairing defensemen are a dime a dozen as you well know. Bort is a bottom pairing guy, as is Strait. Drafting guys like this isnt really "impressive" imo. Its more simply bound to happen unless youre intentionally trying to screw up.
DJ is a different case (see rant about Byslma above). Man, I wonder what couldve been with DJ. I wonder if it is to late with DJ. I wonder where, and how often he will get to play under Bylsma this next year.
I also wonder if he could have been that one late round guy who made a decent impact one day. Not all star type mind you, but 20-25-45 points kind of guy. Because when he gets consistent playing time, you see him starting to get a handle on things and his confidence level shoots up with his comfort level.
He needs that PT to grow to what he could be. You just never know if he is going to get it under Bylsma.
At any rate, I dont think that 3 below average (2 might even be called fringe at this point) and one average NHL player in 3 drafts is impressive.
You do and I can respect that.
What of the other criticisms lobbied against his drafting technique though?
Do you feel there is valid complaint about the criticism Ray plays it to safe in his picks? That he lacks wide diversity amongst players style? Four first round defensemen out of five picks? Rarely drafts from Europe? Is he even scouting Europe (other than a token tourney or two)?
Rowdy Roddy Peeper said:
The '09 class is still to be determined, again because we choose to develop prospects slowly
Agree to disagree. Again, I dont know what there is to develop if it isnt around in the first place.
Or, as stated above, is it that we cant develop what we have.
But youve got me curious now, so I sincerely thank you for the good discussion. Now Ive got a kind of hockey related project for the hockey slow summer. I'll look into the drafting stats versus other teams during that ime frame and eventually when Im done, I'll PM you with what I found out.
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