Prospect Info: - 2013 Draft [Part 8]: Unsolved Mysteries: MacKinnon, Drouin or Barkov? 4 Days Remain | Page 30 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Prospect Info: 2013 Draft [Part 8]: Unsolved Mysteries: MacKinnon, Drouin or Barkov? 4 Days Remain

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Can't say I disagree. I would pick Jones #1, but it is obvious the Avs don't agree. I tend to trust Pracey and give him the benefit of doubt.

Pretty much how I see it as well, but like I said before my opinion is heavily influenced by the fact that I don't follow the QMJHL, OHL and the NCAA as much as I would want to.
 
JoshuaCooper ‏@JoshuaCooper 47s
Poile says the Preds would take Seth Jones at 4 if available. Says he is the best player in the draft...

Jones and Mac are 1a 1b like i always said, and i will be very surprised if Jones drops down to 4th.

As far as Preds drafting Jones, i think they would draft Jones even with the 1st pick overall because Preds are a defensive team. They don't have or care about offense. They probably don't even have a forward who can score 20 goals in an 82 game season.
 
I trust Pacey as well, but this is the freakin Predators we are talking about. They are the best team when it comes to drafting defensemen. Just look at there record compared to our scouting team.

I totally agree with the Preds that Jones is the best player in the draft, and their record speaks for themselves (they have had a number of 1st round bust defensemen though). I just can't get myself wound up that the Avs don't agree with the Preds and myself on who is the best player in the draft.

Overall, I would say the Avs are better at drafting than the Preds. Preds are better at defensemen. Avs are significantly better at forwards.
 
JoshuaCooper ‏@JoshuaCooper 47s
Poile says the Preds would take Seth Jones at 4 if available. Says he is the best player in the draft...

I think almost all teams would take him at 4.

I hope they're happy picking where they are. I wouldn't want that information public if, come draft day, Jones is still on the board at 3.
 
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Avs draft forwards at an alarming success rate, not so much defenders. The Preds being high on Jones does not mean he is better than MacK it just confirms he is very good. I would like Jones, but I'll support whomever Pracey believes in the most, which is MacK.
 
What do you expect Poile to say??
With the Avs coming out and saying MacKinnon, the Panthers not liking Jones according to reports and the Bolts being high on Drouin or Nichushkin, there is a reasonable chance that Jones is the one left to pick for the Preds.
Look at Burke talking up Rielly. You would always have YOUR guy picked #1 ....

Poile might be right. He might be wrong. But I think he hopes and prays to god that Sakic and Roy take Jones at #1 and therefore leave Barkov to him...
 
which one do you like better ? Mac , Drouin , Barkov ?

Personally if Barkov played in North America, in the CHL, and was named Sean Barker he would be ranked the #1 skater. He is a manchild whose physical game and talent is a lot like Landeskog, but I think Barkov's offensive potential vastly rivals him.

But I really think MacKinnon's personality is something the Avalanche need. He's got a Patrick Kane/Taylor Hall chip on his shoulder and he just oozes with confidence. His offensive talent is very flashy as well and quite honestly I think he will end up as good as Tavares/Stamkos.

My pick would be MacKinnon but I do think Barkov is severely underrated.
 
If ROR is the hard-working, team first player that we are all told he is... he should have no problem with the move to wing. As for his game on the wing, I think he will be effective there. He has the smarts and is good enough on the boards.

I'd rather move Stastny to the wing, but Roy and the coaching staff know more than I do.

I'm sure he will do ok on the wing, that's not the question. The question is will the Avs be a better team with a great defensive center, who's great at faceoffs, and among the best in the league at neutral zone takeaways, playing on the wing? Or are the a better team with him at center.

With the logjam at center forcing a guy like O'Reilly to the wing, a rookie 1st overall pick in MacKinnon playing on the 3rd line, and the dire needs at defense, why they hell would they not be trading a pending UFA like Stastny to help alleviate some of these things?
 
Here is a big question...

If both Jones and Mackinnon reach their full potentials...

Mac is a 90+ point producer maybe even reaches 100, which Avs have absolutely no one on the current team that can produce 90 + points.

Jones could be Pietrangelo type or better, perhaps a Norris caliber some day.

Take out the risk factors of d-men higher risks of busting than forwards, would you rather have Tavares or even Stamkos or Pietrangelo on this team?

People say Mac is like Duchene, im sorry but i don't think Duchene will ever reach 90 point mark in the NHL, i think he is capable of maybe 70+ if he plays 82 games of top hockey.

I really believe with good quality wingers Mackinnon can score 100. He's nothing like Duchene like many people here say he is.

I'm reading some web sites where people compare Mac to Stamkos.
 
Avs draft forwards at an alarming success rate, not so much defenders. The Preds being high on Jones does not mean he is better than MacK it just confirms he is very good. I would like Jones, but I'll support whomever Pracey believes in the most, which is MacK.

I think the Avs have been better at drafting defensemen of late.

2012 Draft
No defensemen taken
2011 Draft
#11 - Siemens - Looks to have a NHL future as a shutdown middle pairing defensemen
#153 - Beaupre - I'm higher on him than most, but I can see him being a solid 5/6 defensemen in a couple years.
#183 - Donnelly - didn't sign, not unexpected for a 7th round pick.
2010 Draft
#95 - Silas - a bust here
#137 - Rutkowski - didn't sign, and probably won't amount to much. Still was deemed good enough to earn a contract from Ottawa.
2009 Draft
#49 - Elliott - close to being a regular NHL player. Still has significant upside.
#64 - Barrie - I would call him a regular NHL player now. Showed last season he can handle a top 4 role, and maybe more.
#184 - Young - meh prospect, but still a prospect. He could be a possible bottom pairing shutdown player. I doubt he gets a contract next year.

That looks to me like 3 solid hits out of 8 picks (Barrie, Siemens, Elliott). Beaupre might bring that to 4 if he can continue to develop. 38% success rate while only drafting 1 in the 1st round would actually be a really good. Hell, 25% is pretty damn good.
 
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Siemens is a frustrating prospect to think about. I hope he doesn't turn into Keaton Ellerby Pt. 2.
 
I'm sure he will do ok on the wing, that's not the question. The question is will the Avs be a better team with a great defensive center, who's great at faceoffs, and among the best in the league at neutral zone takeaways, playing on the wing? Or are the a better team with him at center.

With the logjam at center forcing a guy like O'Reilly to the wing, a rookie 1st overall pick in MacKinnon playing on the 3rd line, and the dire needs at defense, why they hell would they not be trading a pending UFA like Stastny to help alleviate some of these things?

Stastny is nearly as good defensively and as good at faceoffs (maybe even better). There is still a lot to play out. Stastny may still be traded. Maybe Mac struggles at center and has to move to wing. Maybe ROR isn't in the Avs long-term plans. There are a lot of unknowns right now. No sense in getting wound up about it at the current moment.

I wouldn't think of Mac in a traditional 3rd line role... think of it more like a Kadri role with the Leafs last year.

FTR I personally feel that Stastny is the better player to move to wing.
 
Roy is known for his 'Run N Gun' style. I heard he likes to use the 'Firing Squad' play on occasion which includes not two, but FOUR forwards on the point.

Sorry, but I see Roy more as a 'Passing play' coach. Uses his defence a lot to bring in some offense. Run N Gun is only basing your strategy out of your forwards which I didn't see Roy doing with the Remparts.

Sorry, I didn't think I would need a sarcasm smiley because this is a hockey board and that play there, that I mentioned has probably never been used in the history of hockey.

JoshuaCooper ‏@JoshuaCooper 47s
Poile says the Preds would take Seth Jones at 4 if available. Says he is the best player in the draft...

It's a bluff! It's a bluff! He's trying to convince the Avs to take Jones so they can have Barkov.:shakehead
 
Stastny is nearly as good defensively and as good at faceoffs (maybe even better). There is still a lot to play out. Stastny may still be traded. Maybe Mac struggles at center and has to move to wing. Maybe ROR isn't in the Avs long-term plans. There are a lot of unknowns right now. No sense in getting wound up about it at the current moment.

I wouldn't think of Mac in a traditional 3rd line role... think of it more like a Kadri role with the Leafs last year.

FTR I personally feel that Stastny is the better player to move to wing.

Maybe he is moved, I just hope they get it out of the way and done with so they can go into the season with somewhat of a set group.

I think Staz is quite good defensively, but he's not ont he level as O'Reilly. And no one on the team, or in the league except for Datsyuk is on his level in terms of breaking up plays and forcing turnovers in the neutral zone. This is a huge benefit to a team, and he will be all but neutered in this regard spending most of his team along the wall in the neutral zone.

I don't think Stastny is a great candidate to move to wing either (none of them are) but it doesn't take away's O'Reilly's important presence up the middle. The presence that was sorely missed while he was holding out last year.

Maybe the idea is to boost Stastny and Jones' production playing them top minutes, and then trade them. :dunno:
 
Here is a big question...

If both Jones and Mackinnon reach their full potentials...

Mac is a 90+ point producer maybe even reaches 100, which Avs have absolutely no one on the current team that can produce 90 + points.

Jones could be Pietrangelo type or better, perhaps a Norris caliber some day.

Take out the risk factors of d-men higher risks of busting than forwards, would you rather have Tavares or even Stamkos or Pietrangelo on this team?

People say Mac is like Duchene, im sorry but i don't think Duchene will ever reach 90 point mark in the NHL, i think he is capable of maybe 70+ if he plays 82 games of top hockey.

I really believe with good quality wingers Mackinnon can score 100. He's nothing like Duchene like many people here say he is.

I'm reading some web sites where people compare Mac to Stamkos.

Duchene was on a 75 point pace this year. I know his pace doesn't necessarily mean he would have gotten that, but to say he's capable of maybe 70+ is a little misleading. He's only 22. He could easily get to 80-90 points in his prime.

We will be very lucky if MacKinnon is as good as Duchene. Let's not let the shiny new toy overshadow the great players we have on the roster.
 
Is anyone an ESPN insider? There's a new article up where Roy talks about the draft, ROR to the wing and Stastny.

Part of the article is up, and Roy states if they move to 2, they'll pick Drouin, and 3, they'd pick Barkov. Mentions how he understands defense is a problem, but then it cuts off because only insiders can read the rest.
 
My two round mock:

Note 1: MacKinnon being taken by the Avalanche is the right thing to do. Defenders rarely pan out to be worth the high pick immediately in the next season. I don't think Jones' lifetime value with the Avs will be more than MacKinnon's even if his ceiling is higher than Nathan's. I think there is little about Jones' game that makes him worth picking over a high-octane forward so high.

Note 2: With a forward being taken I do think that Ian McCoshen is the best fitting defender at #32 for the Avalanche. It was between him and Santini but I think McCoshen's two way game and size is worth the investment.

1 – Colorado Avalanche – MacKinnon – Nathan – Forward – Halifax Mooseheads – QMJHL – CAN
2 – Florida Panthers – Drouin – Jonathan – Forward – Halifax Mooseheads – QMJHL – CAN
3 – Tampa Bay Lightning – Jones – Seth – Defense – Portland Winterhawks – WHL – USA
4 – Nashville Predators – Barkov – Sasha – Forward – Tappara Tampere – SML – FIN
5 – Carolina Hurricanes – Nurse – Darnell – Defense – SSM Greyhounds – OHL – CAN
6 – Calgary Flames – Monahan – Sean – Forward – Ottawa 67's – OHL – CAN
7 – Edmonton Oilers – Zadorov – Nikita – Defense – London Knights – OHL – RUS
8 – Buffalo Sabres – Lindholm – Elias – Forward – Brynas IF – SEL – SWE
9 – New Jersey Devils – Domi – Max – Forward – London Knights – OHL – CAN
10 – Dallas Stars – Nichushkin – Valery – Forward – Chelyabinsk – KHL – RUS
11 – Philadelphia Flyers – Ristolainen – Rasmus – Defense – TPS Turku – SML – FIN
12 – Phoenix Coyotes – Shinkaruk – Hunter – Forward – Medicine Hat Tigers – WHL – CAN
13 – Winnipeg Jets – Lazar – Curtis – Forward – Edmonton Oil Kings – WHL – CAN
14 – Columbus Blue Jackets – Pulock – Ryan – Defense – Brandon Wheat Kings – WHL – CAN
15 – New York Islanders – Horvat – Bo – Forward – London Knights – OHL – CAN
16 – Buffalo Sabres – Morin – Samuel – Defense – Rimouski Oceanic – QMJHL – CAN
17 – Detroit Red Wings – Hagg – Robert – Defense – MoDo Orn – SEL – SWE
18 – Ottawa Senators – Wennberg – Alexander – Forward – Djurgardens IF – SEL – SWE
19 – Columbus Blue Jackets – Zykov – Valentin – Forward – Baie-Comeau Drakkar – QMJHL – RUS
20 – San Jose Sharks – Gauthier – Frederik – Forward – Rimouski Oceanic – QMJHL – CAN
21 – Toronto Maple Leafs – Compher – JT – Forward – USNTDP – USHL – USA
22 – Calgary Flames – Fucale – Zack – Goalie – Halifax Mooseheads – QMJHL – CAN
23 – Washington Capitals – Mantha – Anthony – Forward – Val-d'Or Forieurs – QMJHL – CAN
24 – Vancouver Canucks – Morrissey – Josh – Defense – Prince Albert Raiders – WHL – CAN
25 – Montréal Canadiens – Erne – Adam – Forward – Quebec Remparts – QMJHL – CAN
26 – Anaheim Ducks – Rychel – Kerby – Forward – Windsor Spitfires – OHL – USA
27 – Columbus Blue Jackets – Klimchuk – Morgan – Forward – Regina St. Pats – WHL – CAN
28 – Calgary Flames – Burakowsky – Andre – Forward – Malmo Hawks – SEL – SWE
29 – Dallas Stars – Bowey – Madison – Defense – Kelowna Rockets – WHL – CAN
30 – Chicago Blackhawks – Carrier – William – Forward – Cape Breton S.E. – QMJHL – CAN

31 – Florida Panthers – Nastasiuk – Zack – Forward – Owen Sound Attack – OHL – CAN
32 – Colorado Avalanche – McCoshen – Ian – Defense – Waterloo Blackhawks – USHL – CAN
33 – Tampa Bay Lightning – de la Rose – Jacob – Forward – Leksands IK – SEL – SWE
34 – Montréal Canadiens – Santini – Steve – Defense – USNTDP – USHL – USA
35 – Carolina Hurricanes – Muller – Mirco – Defense – Everett Silvertips – WHL – SWI
36 – Montréal Canadiens – Hartman – Ryan – Forward – Plymouth Whalers – OHL – CAN
37 – Edmonton Oilers – Dickinson – Jason – Forward – Geulph Storm – OHL – CAN
38 – Buffalo Sabres – Thompson – Keaton – Defense – USNTDP – USHL – USA
39 – New Jersey Devils – Poirier – Emile – Forward – Gatineau Olympiques – QMJHL – CAN
40 – Dallas Stars – Lehkonen – Artturi – Forward – KalPa Kuopio – SML – FIN
41 – Philadelphia Flyers – Dauphin – Laurent – Forward – Chicoutimi Sanguieens – QMJHL – CAN
42 – Phoenix Coyotes – Butcher – Will – Defense – USNTDP – USHL – USA
43 – Winnipeg Jets – Jarry – Tristan – Goalie – Edmonton Oil Kings – WHL – CAN
44 – Columbus Blue Jackets – Petan – Nic – Forward – Portland Winterhawks – WHL – CAN
45 – Anaheim Ducks – Kujawinski – Ryan – Forward – Kingston Frontenacs – OHL – CAN
46 – Minnesota Wild – Valiyav – Rinat – Defense – Indiana Ice – USHL – RUS
47 – Detroit Red Wings – Baptiste – Nick – Forward – Sudbury Wolves – OHL – CAN
48 – St. Louis Blues – McCarron – Michael – Forward – USNTDP – USHL – USA
49 – San Jose Sharks – Birgas – Chris – Defense – Owen Sound Attack – OHL – CAN
50 – San Jose Sharks – Lodge – Jimmy – Forward – Saginaw Spirit – OHL – CAN
51 – Toronto Maple Leafs – Roy – MA – Forward – Blainville-Boisbriand – QMJHL – CAN
52 – Buffalo Sabres – Sorensen – Nick – Forward – Quebec Remparts – QMJHL – NOR
53 – Washington Capitals – Tambellini – Adam – Forward – Surrey Eagles – BCHL – CAN
54 – Dallas Stars – Duclair – Anthony – Forward – Quebec Remparts – QMJHL – CAN
55 – Montréal Canadiens – Buchnevich – Pavel – Forward – Cherepovits – KHL – RUS
56 – Edmonton Oilers – Comrie – Eric – Goalie – Tri-City Americans – WHL – CAN
57 – Los Angeles Kings – Hill – Tyler – Forward – Chicago Steel – USHL – USA
58 – San Jose Sharks – Paquin-Boudreau – Gabryel – Forward – Baie-Comeau Drakkar – QMJHL – CAN
59 – Winnipeg Jets – Lees – Jesse – Defense – Kelowna Rockets – WHL – CAN
60 – Boston Bruins – Heatherington – Dillon – Defense – Swift Current Broncos – WHL – CAN
61 – Winnipeg Jets – Hurley – Connor – Forward – Muskegon Lumberjacks – USHL – USA
 
Here is a big question...

If both Jones and Mackinnon reach their full potentials...

Mac is a 90+ point producer maybe even reaches 100, which Avs have absolutely no one on the current team that can produce 90 + points.

Jones could be Pietrangelo type or better, perhaps a Norris caliber some day.

Take out the risk factors of d-men higher risks of busting than forwards, would you rather have Tavares or even Stamkos or Pietrangelo on this team?

People say Mac is like Duchene, im sorry but i don't think Duchene will ever reach 90 point mark in the NHL, i think he is capable of maybe 70+ if he plays 82 games of top hockey.

I really believe with good quality wingers Mackinnon can score 100. He's nothing like Duchene like many people here say he is.

I'm reading some web sites where people compare Mac to Stamkos.

You can't take out the risk factors, they played a big part. Those risks are there, and so are the extra time it will take for Jones to develop his overal game.

They're very close, and these are probably the things that separated them.

It's completely logical that if you think both players are very close, but one is much harder to map out due to his position, and will take an extra few years to have the kind of impact the forward would at his position, than you'd probably lean toward the forward.

As for comparisons they're always a joke. No two players are very similar. The comparisons are only made to give people who have no idea who the prospects are, an idea of what kind of playing style they have.
 
During a Monday phone conversation, Roy said that if the Avalanche were picking right now, they would select Halifax center Nathan MacKinnon.

"If we move [to] second, we'll go [Jonathan] Drouin. If we go third, [Alexander] Barkov," Roy said.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nhl/blog/_/name/custance_craig/id/9420707/2013-nhl-draft-patrick-roy-avs-acknowledge-d-woes-lean-towards-mackinnon

Can't read the whole article because I don't have ESPN Insider, but figured this is what people would talk about anyway.
 
My two round mock:

Good mock, a couple of questions.

It seems like you're not that high on Petan, is that just because of his size?

And lately I've seen some Mocks that have Robert Hagg falling past the Avs in the 2nd round...if he's there do you change your viewpoint on who the Avs should take at that point?
 
Is anyone an ESPN insider? There's a new article up where Roy talks about the draft, ROR to the wing and Stastny.

If we pick first, we're taking Mac. Second, Drouin. Third, Barkov.

Defense is a big area of need.

"You can always find good defensemen," Roy said. "They take a little bit more time to develop. Honestly, look at a guy like Chara -- sometimes a good stay at home defenseman or a good puck mover -- it's not necessarily a guy who will be drafted in the top five."

No intentions of trading O'Reilly. He's one of the hardest workers on the team. He's hoping to sit down with him and see if he would be okay with playing on Duchene's wing.

Mentioned that Sakic and Forsberg occasionally played on the same line.

Would be surprised to see Stastny traded. He loves Denver, team guy.

Regarding the first overall:

"We have received different type of offers that are very interesting," Roy said. "We feel that if we could get something in return that's going to make us better, we will. We have to do what's best for our franchise. Our fans are trusting us."
 
Here is a big question...

If both Jones and Mackinnon reach their full potentials...

Mac is a 90+ point producer maybe even reaches 100, which Avs have absolutely no one on the current team that can produce 90 + points.

Jones could be Pietrangelo type or better, perhaps a Norris caliber some day.

Take out the risk factors of d-men higher risks of busting than forwards, would you rather have Tavares or even Stamkos or Pietrangelo on this team?

People say Mac is like Duchene, im sorry but i don't think Duchene will ever reach 90 point mark in the NHL, i think he is capable of maybe 70+ if he plays 82 games of top hockey.

I really believe with good quality wingers Mackinnon can score 100. He's nothing like Duchene like many people here say he is.

I'm reading some web sites where people compare Mac to Stamkos.

It's unlikely yes, but I think he's definetely got potential or upside for it. I don't think we have seen the best of Duchene yet. He can still improve a lot.
 
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