2012 CBA/Lockout talk, It's not looking good VI

[ODAAT]

By the way Lou, I have obviously been on the player's side for the most part here, but you and Morris have had the most logical and consistent reasons for not supporting them.

I do question why some of the pro-owner people take such glee in thinking the players are really going to eat it.

Envy?

I mean, I don't have any actual sympathy for the players, nor did I for the owners in 04 when I supported them. And I certainly don't take glee in one group of rich people sticking it to another group.

I think for me Mike one of the most difficult things I struggle with when it comes to support of the players is the fact that so many of them present their side of the situation via Twitter/media outlets with statements that present themselves in a manner that comes across far too often as uninformed, ludicrous etc....

I`m not saying that they don`t have an arguement or legitimate beef but far too many of them sure make it difficult for some fans (myself included) to fire their support behind them when I pick up the paper, turn on the computer and read their thoughts about the "negotiations" and read so much of the garbage, have to wonder if Fehr and Company have ever addressed or suggested to the PA to keep their yaps shut or think about what they are saying before opening their mouths?

Either way, Bettman began this mess years ago with his insistence (with backing of Ownership at that time) to plug teams into markets that never had a chance, keep them there too long yet insist they are healthy. Owners kept paying huge money, insane money for talents that deserved half of what they received, then cried about the outrageous contracts etc...fault on both sides.

Who suffers?? IMO, in this order

1- all those who work at or near the stadiums who came to rely heavily on the income generated by having professional hockey in the stadiums for 42 days/nights

2- Fans who have paid alot of their hard earned money to enjoy a 3 hour escape purchasing game/season ticket

3- The integrity of the game, this league has little to no integrity left, it`s been a disgusting display from both sides and if there is anyone who didn`t see it coming the moment Fehr`s name was mentioned, well........

Tell ya one thing, as much as I love this game, I have also adjusted perfectly fine without it, I have long been a supporter of the great Junior Hockey provided here in Halifax and previously during my time in Ottawa, I have jumped on the Varsity bandwagon too, going to SMU games here in Halifax.

Life has, in fact, gone on, and I don`t any longer give a rat`s arse hearing from EITHER side about how they are hard done by, and if I hear one more player say they are doing this for the "next generation" I`ll scream, face it Sid/Toews et al, Carl Brewer/Ted Lindsay, THEY did it for their and the next generation of player, you are doing this for one group, and that`s the one who`s playing right now IMO

 

[cat400]

Larry Brooks of The New York Post has an interesting article regarding the NHL's legal filing against the NHLPA.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/nhl_fears_fehr_itself_4hyqBWvZCWQFffGXHbTEtL

NHL fears Fehr itself

"The combination of restrictions proposed by the NHL leading into and throughout the lockout is designed to limit the impact of free agency and funnel players toward teams they might not consider given a full plate of options.

Yet there is the NHL in Paragraph 62 suggesting every player in the league become a free agent if the NHLPA were permitted to disclaim or decertify.

“[Existing] contracts ...[would be] void and unenforcable by law,” in the league’s own words.

Goodbye Columbus!

And wouldn’t it just be grand if, under universal free agency, not a single player would choose to sign with Jeremy Jacobs’ Bruins?"

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

As stupid as the players have shown they can be in 2004 and up to now in this lockout, I still say they can't be stupid enough to lose 100% of their salaries this year over this. They can still get a little over 50% if there is a season, and I'll stay in the logic corner and say we'll have a 48-56 games season.

But I'm kind of curious to see how much the 3.3 billion pie would shrink if they are to lose a season over this nonsense.

The player were offered 50% and some make whole for a 82 games seasons. That was the time they should have signed. Yes the owners upped their make whole money since but the players lost a big % of their salaries this year going from 82 to 56-48 or 0 game and who knows what will the 50% of that shrink pie of HRR they'll get now.

Plain stupid...

 

[ODAAT]

As stupid as the players have shown they can be in 2004 and up to now in this lockout, I still say they can't be stupid enough to lose 100% of their salaries this year over this. They can still get a little over 50% if there is a season, and I'll stay in the logic corner and say we'll have a 48-56 games season.

But I'm kind of curious to see how much the 3.3 billion pie would shrink if they are to lose a season over this nonsense.

The player were offered 50% and some make whole for a 82 games seasons. That was the time they should have signed. Yes the owners upped their make whole money since but the players lost a big % of their salaries this year going from 82 to 56-48 or 0 game and who knows what will the 50% of that shrink pie of HRR they'll get now.

Plain stupid...

you`d think not but.....

I have to wonder, if I were sitting with one of those players who aren`t making the huge bucks, just two guys, having a complete casual conversation, if I were to ask them how they felt, how this is affecting them, and what they want, if they`d answer something like:

"I just want to play, I need to play for financial reasons, and I don`t feel like the Crosby`s/Parise`s/Kovalchuk`s of the league will ever know what life is like for those making what we do"

Now, I know 750,000$ seems like alot(and it is), but I also know that total is long before the Gov`t takes a ton of it, and I recognize we have a tendency to live right at our means, or well above it, chances are, most of these players aren`t living in nice, conservative 2-3 bedroom bungalos

 

[DKH]

As stupid as the players have shown they can be in 2004 and up to now in this lockout, I still say they can't be stupid enough to lose 100% of their salaries this year over this. They can still get a little over 50% if there is a season, and I'll stay in the logic corner and say we'll have a 48-56 games season.

But I'm kind of curious to see how much the 3.3 billion pie would shrink if they are to lose a season over this nonsense.

The player were offered 50% and some make whole for a 82 games seasons. That was the time they should have signed. Yes the owners upped their make whole money since but the players lost a big % of their salaries this year going from 82 to 56-48 or 0 game and who knows what will the 50% of that shrink pie of HRR they'll get now.

Plain stupid...

great post

there was a Looney Tunes cartoon where I think Elmer Fudd destroyed his home just to kill a fly- someway this is the NHL

I really want to skip the next 3 chapters (weeks) and get to the ending of atleast this book.

I'm not sure how it will end based on everything up to now but like you I have to think Fehr is thinking he has the last offer, and will try different techniques until the final NHL version of Doomsday is upon us. At that point, Fehr will consult with his players and even if the December 5th final offer by the owners is off the table announce to the hockey world (if anyone cares) that the players are willing to accept it.

Where it goes from there is anyones guess.

This I do know- I am in the top 1% of all hockey fans and be it the sadness of the past few days (and the thought this stuff could get even worse) I am so pissed at both sides it would not bother all that much if they remained in there bedrooms indefinitely and the fallout destroys them both.

Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow about this, who knows, but I'm going to go lift weights for two hours and then go shopping for an hour before watching football.

The NHL would be a great diversion for me personally but right now I'm madder at them than I ever have been especially considering the issues that are unsettled would be resolved between two ratiionale and fair individuals in less time that it will take me to workout.

 

[GoBs]

When do you guys think a deal needs to get done in order to have a season? End of the week?

 

[KnightofBoston]

I think a drop dead date would be something like January 4th, they can still fit in 48 games and camp if they get it done by then IMO

 

[DKH]

When do you guys think a deal needs to get done in order to have a season? End of the week?

that is the question

here is my answer....going by 1994-5 they agreed in early part of Jan 11th I think and got back the 20th. So they probably are working off that....my guesstimate is and this sucks to say for those who still somewhat care

I'll say the next shoe to drop will be games thru the 15th of January and that to anyone who gets it the end- Doomsday

which means they really need to be playing by the 16th so a deal would have to be consummated by Jan 5th

really, they suck if it gets to that point and I am rooting for no season (I'm sure I'll be waving the pom poms if they come back but right now they ****ing suck)

so Jan 16th games have to be underway

deal would have to be made by Jan 5th

but if they get to New Years- just stay in Siberia, Prague, Switzerland, and Germany

what do you think

 

[Ratty]

When do you guys think a deal needs to get done in order to have a season? End of the week?

There are no bargaining sessions scheduled or planned. The decertification vote will take five days. So that's Thursday. The NHL petition to the USDC in NY has to be heard. Then the players will file an unfair labor practice lawsuit.

Ehh.....end of the week doesn't look too good.

 

[KnightofBoston]

Great minds think a like Dan

 

[DKH]

Great minds think a like Dan

trust me you dont want to think like me

just to add because its lockout related

bought my kid a Bruins gift yesterday and the girl who works there told me Bruins stuff is way down from last couple of years for sales

gotta think its all over the place- anyone in the North Shore who lives near Peabody check out the sports memorabellia store across from the Court House. The owner pulled ALL Bruins stuff in disgust from the window and is pushing Celtics, Patriots, and Red Sox.

Also to steal a hockey writer comment- 'they are trying to get the make whole as much as possible and got an extra 89 Million in last offer yet have lost over 800 Million is salary so far' unbelievable

 

[BigGoalBrad]

that is the question

here is my answer....going by 1994-5 they agreed in early part of Jan 11th I think and got back the 20th. So they probably are working off that....my guesstimate is and this sucks to say for those who still somewhat care

I'll say the next shoe to drop will be games thru the 15th of January and that to anyone who gets it the end- Doomsday

which means they really need to be playing by the 16th so a deal would have to be consummated by Jan 5th

really, they suck if it gets to that point and I am rooting for no season (I'm sure I'll be waving the pom poms if they come back but right now they ****ing suck)

so Jan 16th games have to be underway

deal would have to be made by Jan 5th

but if they get to New Years- just stay in Siberia, Prague, Switzerland, and Germany

what do you think

Agree with this. So if Jan 1 is the effective deadline with the official announcement coming within a week following that we are pretty close to the edge.

The recent developments nearly guarantee there is no constructive discussions before Christmas. Obviously the freakin players are concentrating on their vote. That leaves what, 2-3 business days after Christmas before NYE to negotiate/


Since they were so close I still give us a 50-50 shot at getting a deal done around New Years. Last week I thought it was about 90% chance we had hockey though.



I want replacements if the players don't do a deal. 40 games, half price to ST holders, full playoffs. Lets do it I'll drink in Garden bars and sit in my loges this spring. Will also take time create a troll twitter account and harass locked out NHLers about how they are going to be living under a bridge soon.

 

[Over the volcano]

If they get a season together I'll probably get out to more games than most years. Tickets will be cheap and a shortened season makes for better hockey- like one long playoff run. 1994/95 was a great little season.

 

[Kaoz*]

Larry Brooks of The New York Post has an interesting article regarding the NHL's legal filing against the NHLPA.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/nhl_fears_fehr_itself_4hyqBWvZCWQFffGXHbTEtL

NHL fears Fehr itself

"The combination of restrictions proposed by the NHL leading into and throughout the lockout is designed to limit the impact of free agency and funnel players toward teams they might not consider given a full plate of options.

Yet there is the NHL in Paragraph 62 suggesting every player in the league become a free agent if the NHLPA were permitted to disclaim or decertify.

“[Existing] contracts ...[would be] void and unenforcable by law,” in the league’s own words.

Goodbye Columbus!

And wouldn’t it just be grand if, under universal free agency, not a single player would choose to sign with Jeremy Jacobs’ Bruins?"

There will only be so many jobs and even fewer high paying ones. If the choice is to sign in Boston or work as a Walmart greater, players will sign in Boston.

 

[member 96824]

Lol yeah free agents really didn't want to sign here after the last lockout.

Other than our current captain/third best defender in team history and the best offensive talent I have seen on the B's in a long time.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Larry Brooks of The New York Post has an interesting article regarding the NHL's legal filing against the NHLPA.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/nhl_fears_fehr_itself_4hyqBWvZCWQFffGXHbTEtL

NHL fears Fehr itself

"The combination of restrictions proposed by the NHL leading into and throughout the lockout is designed to limit the impact of free agency and funnel players toward teams they might not consider given a full plate of options.

Yet there is the NHL in Paragraph 62 suggesting every player in the league become a free agent if the NHLPA were permitted to disclaim or decertify.

“[Existing] contracts ...[would be] void and unenforcable by law,” in the league’s own words.

Goodbye Columbus!

And wouldn’t it just be grand if, under universal free agency, not a single player would choose to sign with Jeremy Jacobs’ Bruins?"

Players would never do that ,, No matter what dream world Brooks and others want to believe could happen

Players signed with Bill Wirtz ,, Even after his role in Alan Eagleson affair (Wirtz basically had puppet running NHLPA)

Players signed with Bill Wirtz even after his poor treatment of many team stars over years in contract disputes (Shaking JR's hand and saying he would be Hawk for life ,, Then trading him a year later to avoid giving him big contract for instance)

 

[bruinmann77]

who cares any more let them all cancel the season.

 

[Ladyfan]

who cares any more let them all cancel the season.

I care but I also think this season is toast.

Shame on those fools.

 

[DKH]

There will only be so many jobs and even fewer high paying ones. If the choice is to sign in Boston or work as a Walmart greater, players will sign in Boston.

yah, no one will play for Boston and they'll lose their franchise

Cam Neely walks up to the podium flanked by glum looking Boston owners and management group and announces with echo on today

'Today (pause) the Boston Bruins are ceasing as a franchise. No one will play for us and we have decided to disolve the organ-i-zation (the way Canadiens say it). Those who want their season ticket money back will have the option to provide a reason why it should be refunded that will be heard by Mr Jacobs when he gets back from his Florida vacation home.' Thank you for your support and understand if we could have found 20 players to play here we would still have a team, it was not our doing.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

I really don't even know what to say. I'll keep it children-friendly and call them stupid. Players and Owners, but mostly the players.

 

[Number8]

I think for me Mike one of the most difficult things I struggle with when it comes to support of the players is the fact that so many of them present their side of the situation via Twitter/media outlets with statements that present themselves in a manner that comes across far too often as uninformed, ludicrous etc....

I`m not saying that they don`t have an arguement or legitimate beef but far too many of them sure make it difficult for some fans (myself included) to fire their support behind them when I pick up the paper, turn on the computer and read their thoughts about the "negotiations" and read so much of the garbage, have to wonder if Fehr and Company have ever addressed or suggested to the PA to keep their yaps shut or think about what they are saying before opening their mouths?

Either way, Bettman began this mess years ago with his insistence (with backing of Ownership at that time) to plug teams into markets that never had a chance, keep them there too long yet insist they are healthy. Owners kept paying huge money, insane money for talents that deserved half of what they received, then cried about the outrageous contracts etc...fault on both sides.

Who suffers?? IMO, in this order

1- all those who work at or near the stadiums who came to rely heavily on the income generated by having professional hockey in the stadiums for 42 days/nights

2- Fans who have paid alot of their hard earned money to enjoy a 3 hour escape purchasing game/season ticket

3- The integrity of the game, this league has little to no integrity left, it`s been a disgusting display from both sides and if there is anyone who didn`t see it coming the moment Fehr`s name was mentioned, well........

Tell ya one thing, as much as I love this game, I have also adjusted perfectly fine without it, I have long been a supporter of the great Junior Hockey provided here in Halifax and previously during my time in Ottawa, I have jumped on the Varsity bandwagon too, going to SMU games here in Halifax.

Life has, in fact, gone on, and I don`t any longer give a rat`s arse hearing from EITHER side about how they are hard done by, and if I hear one more player say they are doing this for the "next generation" I`ll scream, face it Sid/Toews et al, Carl Brewer/Ted Lindsay, THEY did it for their and the next generation of player, you are doing this for one group, and that`s the one who`s playing right now IMO

I tend to come down on the players side of this mess. However I find it difficult o disagree with ANY of what you say here. Sadly, I could not agree more with your last paragraph in particular.

 

[BergyDGD]

Let 'em fight, let 'em cancel the season. I don't care anymore. I'll come back when they're ready to play. But after the events of this week I really had to reevaluate where sports should stand in my life. I have lost sleep, felt sick, felt depressed all over this stupid lockout, now it's time to step back and let whatever happens happen. I still love sports and am passionate but for too long I have put them as the most important thing in my life and after watching the events in CT it's pretty obvious there are more important things than sports.

 

[cat400]

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/nhl_fears_fehr_itself_4hyqBWvZCWQFffGXHbTEtL

"Stop and think for a moment. Here is the league that just over a week ago was doing everything in its power to keep Don Fehr out of the bargaining process, and is now going to court to ensure he continues to represent the players in the bargaining process.

For weeks now, the NHL has sent its messengers to deliver the message the NHLPA is not truly united behind Fehr and union leadership; that the players, left to their own decision-making process, would rush to accept whatever the league at the time had on the table.

Or, in another word, “Vote!”

Yet there in Paragraph 54 of the complaint is the NHL citing numerous examples of players articulating support for Fehr and the PA leadership which the league posits, “... do not suggest that the NHL players are unhappy with their Union representation [or] wish to oust current NHLPA leadership...”

Don Fehr. League can’t live with him, now the league can’t live without him."

 

[cat400]

Players would never do that ,, No matter what dream world Brooks and others want to believe could happen

Players signed with Bill Wirtz ,, Even after his role in Alan Eagleson affair (Wirtz basically had puppet running NHLPA)

Players signed with Bill Wirtz even after his poor treatment of many team stars over years in contract disputes (Shaking JR's hand and saying he would be Hawk for life ,, Then trading him a year later to avoid giving him big contract for instance)

I doubt vey much that Brooks believes it either; I would think he was musing out loud a fantasy scenario that could nail Jacobs for his hardline stance during these assinine negotiations.

 

[Shaun]

Larry Brooks of The New York Post has an interesting article regarding the NHL's legal filing against the NHLPA.

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/rangers/nhl_fears_fehr_itself_4hyqBWvZCWQFffGXHbTEtL

NHL fears Fehr itself

"The combination of restrictions proposed by the NHL leading into and throughout the lockout is designed to limit the impact of free agency and funnel players toward teams they might not consider given a full plate of options.

Yet there is the NHL in Paragraph 62 suggesting every player in the league become a free agent if the NHLPA were permitted to disclaim or decertify.

“[Existing] contracts ...[would be] void and unenforcable by law,†in the league’s own words.

Goodbye Columbus!

And wouldn’t it just be grand if, under universal free agency, not a single player would choose to sign with Jeremy Jacobs’ Bruins?"

Evgeni Malkin will finally be ours.