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OT: 2012-2013 NBA Discussion Thread: Defense? What is defense?

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BrooklynRangersFan said:
Hahahaha. Guess I'll step up and rep the Nets fans in defeat. :) Great game last night, guys. This rivalry is going to be great for a loooooong time. (Knock wood.)

Melo was in one of his zones and Kidd's four point play was a dagger. I wonder if we had Lopez if we pull away for good instead of letting you claw back into it. Ah well.

So furious that Johnson kept Blatche out as long as he did and didn't keep calling plays to the post until the Knicks proved they could stop it. We were KILLING you by doing that and yet he goes away from it. :shakehead Blatche is so much fun to watch. I hope they figure out a way to lock him up long term. (When Lopez comes back I'd even like to see a little Twin Towers play to see how that works out...)

I really love the arena. Started out really skeptical, but now that it's done and I've been, I have to say it's great. Externally, I think the low profile, the plaza, the oculus and the way you can see the scoreboard from outside are all awesome. Inside, the layout is great, the seats are comfortable, the sightlines are good and the food is fantastic. Also really easy to exit once the game ends. Got no problem with the music (and honestly the references to "making it a rap concert" come off as vaguely racist) - after all, part of the identity is Jay-Z as an owner. My only complaints are that the seats are more than wide enough but it's a little difficult to navigate out to the concessions because of the limited space between the rows. Also, if you're in the nosebleeds, you're behind most of the speakers and don't always get the best quality sound (and actually, my comment about the space between the rows may only be true of the nosebleeds - haven't tried good seats yet).

Oh yeah, and the mascot is just... oy, I have no words.

Funny to hear people talk about how much they dislike Evans and Crash. (Williams? That one I don't get.) Nets fans LOVE them. And while I agree that Evans is a flopper, not sure I'd say the same about Crash. Regardless, you have to love the hustle they both display on both defense and rebounding. Wallace in particular is one of my favorites the way he gives max effort on almost every play. If Melo played with half Crash's intensity on D, he'd be one of the top 10 players of all time.

Speaking of Melo, I'll take a hardworking, selfless guy like Evans or Crash over a whiny-ass, selfish punk ***** like Melo ANY day. You guys have Melo and 'Sheed and Felton and you talk about how much you dislike OUR players?!? :laugh: The only guys on the current Knicks squad I like at all are Chandler, Shump, Kidd and Kurt. (Pretty much in that order.)

As a former Knicks fan, I definitely think that getting Amar'e back will help - but not as much as it once would have. He just isn't the same player. And he won't help in the paint. He's a pick and roll finisher who's developed a nice shooting touch - that is truly, truly awful on D. You have a real weakness behind Chandler at C. Can't wait until these two teams both play with a full complement of players.



Speaking of being a former Knicks fan - could you please cool it with the "fake fans" stuff? As anybody who's been on these boards for any extent of time knows, I am a very passionate, very loyal fan to my team. Prior to this year, I had never switched allegiances in any sport at any level over 41 years. It was a big decision to switch teams and a difficult one to make - but now that I've made it, I'm as committed to the Nets as I ever was to the Knicks. I took the loss last night hard. Don't underestimate the power of the Brooklyn identity (or Dolan's abuse of Knicks fans for 15 years) in making a real change in someone.
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It sounds like you're very dedicated, and I don't think anyone meant to patronize your fan-hood. But I feel like unfortunately anytime a new fanbase forms- whether it be the Pens fanbase who grew after they drafted Crosby, or fans of an expansion team- fairly or unfairly they are labled bandwagoners and fake fans. When we say fake fans we aren't talking about the ones like you who are clearly in it for the longhaul- we are talking about the ones who just became Brooklyn fans because they are the shiny new toy in town, the ones who used to be Knicks fans who will go back to being Knicks fans in a few years if the Nets aren't winning. It is going to take some time for the Nets fanbase to grow and become established in NYC.
 
I can't respond too much without turning this into a back and forth, but you can't say turning it into a rap concert is vaguely racist when literally every possession there's a song playing. That's just unnecessarily antagonistic, I feel. Also I hate D-Will because he got Jerry Sloan fired. Rip on Melo all you want but getting Sloan fired is much worse.

I think the arena is beautiful but the Brooooook-lynnnn chant and the overuse of music really bothers me.

I'll be going there this Saturday to watch some college ball games...glad I won't have to watch the selfless and hardworking Evans and Wallace flop around all game. :sarcasm:

That being said, though, i'm glad the rivalry took off as fast as it did. Makes games much more interesting...I rushed home to watch the end of it last night.
 
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BrooklynRangersFan said:
I really love the arena. Started out really skeptical, but now that it's done and I've been, I have to say it's great. Externally, I think the low profile, the plaza, the oculus and the way you can see the scoreboard from outside are all awesome. Inside, the layout is great, the seats are comfortable, the sightlines are good and the food is fantastic. Also really easy to exit once the game ends. Got no problem with the music (and honestly the references to "making it a rap concert" come off as vaguely racist) - after all, part of the identity is Jay-Z as an owner. My only complaints are that the seats are more than wide enough but it's a little difficult to navigate out to the concessions because of the limited space between the rows. Also, if you're in the nosebleeds, you're behind most of the speakers and don't always get the best quality sound (and actually, my comment about the space between the rows may only be true of the nosebleeds - haven't tried good seats yet).
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It's really unfortunate that you feel that way. If you knew anything about my profession and my volunteer work, you'd know how laughably off-base the "vaguely racist" statement is. I won't derail this any further, but I've done more in my life to combat racism and other forms of discrimination than most ever will.

If Bon Jovi owned the team and played Poison and Motley Crue all game long, I'd complain about that, too. It just seems like it's more of a concert/entertainment event than a basketball game. I'm sure plenty of people enjoy that but it's not for me.

Jay-Z owns what, half of a percent of the team? He's hardly an influential owner, and more so just a marketing gimmick. Again, that's fine, but it just seems silly to me. If they want to firmly entrench themselves as an equal in New York, they need to do so on the court. Creating an entertainment circus will only get them so far, IMO.
 
nyr2k2 said:
It's really unfortunate that you feel that way. If you knew anything about my profession and my volunteer work, you'd know how laughably off-base the "vaguely racist" statement is. I won't derail this any further, but I've done more in my life to combat racism and other forms of discrimination than most ever will.

If Bon Jovi owned the team and played Poison and Motley Crue all game long, I'd complain about that, too. It just seems like it's more of a concert/entertainment event than a basketball game. I'm sure plenty of people enjoy that but it's not for me.

Jay-Z owns what, half of a percent of the team? He's hardly an influential owner, and more so just a marketing gimmick. Again, that's fine, but it just seems silly to me. If they want to firmly entrench themselves as an equal in New York, they need to do so on the court. Creating an entertainment circus will only get them so far, IMO.
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More like, 0.00000000000001. :laugh:
 
nyr2k2 said:
It's really unfortunate that you feel that way. If you knew anything about my profession and my volunteer work, you'd know how laughably off-base the "vaguely racist" statement is. I won't derail this any further, but I've done more in my life to combat racism and other forms of discrimination than most ever will.

If Bon Jovi owned the team and played Poison and Motley Crue all game long, I'd complain about that, too. It just seems like it's more of a concert/entertainment event than a basketball game. I'm sure plenty of people enjoy that but it's not for me.

Jay-Z owns what, half of a percent of the team? He's hardly an influential owner, and more so just a marketing gimmick. Again, that's fine, but it just seems silly to me. If they want to firmly entrench themselves as an equal in New York, they need to do so on the court. Creating an entertainment circus will only get them so far, IMO.
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I have no doubt you've done plenty of laudable work. I see it called out that Nets games sound like a rap concert and it simply raises the question - why the need to include the descriptor "rap"? If your issue is simply the quantity of music piped through the speakers, why not simply say "concert"? So, I say it comes off as vaguely racist. By no means did I say you are definitely a racist, but I found your choice of words troubling, especially since the comment WAS clearly meant to be dismissive.

Anyway, hope that explains that point better. As you said, no need to derail the conversation in that direction any further.

As to Jay-Z, minority ownership of - and marketing affiliation with - the team has been part of the team identity and strategy all along. He's benefited from it and the team has benefited from it. I believe the correct number is 0.5%, but so what - he has been highly involved and highly visible from day 1 (promoting the team, designing the uniforms, recruiting players, etc.). He actually has to put in $200MM instead of $2M for that to matter?

I see the music, slogans, etc. as the team trying to establish their own identity and connect with the fanbase. And of course promote their product. Jay-Z as, yes, a partial owner, as well as our superfan from day 1, is playing a big part in that. They're trying different things - some work (uniforms are fantastic), some don't (will someone please kidnap the Brooklyn Knight? Or at least his costume?). All teams do similar things, although they sometimes go in different directions - and I think the Nets for the most part have done a fantastic job (the T-shirts and marketing campaigns in particular are among the best I've ever seen). Honestly, I think the Nets are better at it than the Rangers are - I mean, are we going to see them raise the bucket of the chief ice scraper from the '94 team this year? Talk about gimmicky... (And remember, when it comes to hockey, I'm as big a Rangers fan as anyone here.)
 
The only think that will keep the Knicks from winning is if the refs decide to give Hollywood calls. Otherwise I think the Knicks pull away late and make it a blowout.
 
BroadwayBlues said:
The only think that will keep the Knicks from winning is if the refs decide to give Hollywood calls. Otherwise I think the Knicks pull away late and make it a blowout.
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I could see that. I wonder what kind of reception D'Antoni is going to get, if any.

Always exciting to see Kobe in the Garden. Hopefully he doesn't drop 50+ :shakehead

Maybe we'll see some fireworks between World Peace and 'Sheed :naughty:
 
As a Nets fan, it's pretty funny to read everything Knicks fans say. I don't understand the hatred for Nets fans. It has to be because we are now in your territory and you feel threatened. Thats the only logic I can come up with. That, and the fact that we are actually good now. Also, having more Brooklyn Nets fan doesn't hurt. I've been a New Jersey Nets fan my whole life, and nobody cared about them before, including Knicks fans. So, I don't see the hate all of a sudden. Fake fans? Hmmm. It's a brand new team. New city. New fans. What did you expect? Of course we are going to have more fans now, our team is in the largest city in the US.


Good game the other night btw. I won't make excuses about not having Brook, because I couldn't stand the Knicks fans saying they didn't have Kidd the first time which is why they lost. We just couldn't stop Melo. That and the fact we possibly have the worst coach in the league besides Mike D'Antoni. No idea why we didn't call a timeout at the end.

Anyway, hopefully we can meet you guys in the playoffs, and we'll start to see a real rivalry. Don't get too cocky Knix fans, because your senior citizens won't be playing like this all year long.
 
What's with Barkley's fetish of Chris Paul? He's not even playing.

I know he hates the Knicks, but imagine the 180 he'd do on him when he signs here next year.
 
"When the Knicks play elite teams they're gonna have some trouble. They've destroyed the Heat twice. The real elite teams are in the West. The Heat are the defending champs. They aren't elite right now."
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Barkley is ridiculous.
 
IDK why Knicks fans pay so much attention to Barkley. It's your own fault if you take him serious. Everybody on RealGM goes up in arms when Barkley talks about them as well. He's an idiot, we all know this.
 
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