2-way contract, can the AHL salary exceed the NHL salary?

[bolobow]

Fun cap circumvention idea.

Can a team sign a waiver exempt player to a 2-way contact, say 775k NHL / 10M AHL and then just hide the player on the farm until playoffs? Or, you can call them up midway and the the player still earns 5.3875M over the year (5M in AHL, 387.5k NHL), with a minimum salary caphit to the NHL team. I'm sure some players would choose $$$ over professional pride.

It would seem like there's no maximums on AHL contracts and no salary cap either. Don't see anything in the CBA that says NHL must exceed AHL salary or that caphit would be the max of AHL/NHL on a 2-way, but I'm not an expert either. I know teams get punished for cap circumvention, which this would definitely fall under, but just wondering if there is a rule to prevent this from happening.

* Edited to reduce the scope to waiver exempt players.

 

[wetcoast]

Without looking it up I bet that no player makes an AHL salary as high as the league minimum in the NHL.
Also even your scenario was completely legal, like the Avery screening Broduer, Bettman would close that loophole in a New York minute.

 

[Rec T]

Pretty sure both the NHL Head office & the NHLPA would individually shiat out arena sized bricks.

Being the depths of winter, just where would one store two arenas worth of frozen poo until it can be utilized as fertilizer in the spring?

 

[BLNY]

Without looking it up I bet that no player makes an AHL salary as high as the league minimum in the NHL.
Also even your scenario was completely legal, like the Avery screening Broduer, Bettman would close that loophole in a New York minute.

Highest AHL salary I can remember seeing would have been in the 400k range for an AHL vet player signing a one-year two-way deal.

 

[castle]

The NHL has to approve all contracts. I don’t know if it’s purely a rubber stamp or not. If it’s not just a rubber stamp based on current rule compliance, something that is not technically forbidden could be denied. I think this would be a case where it might be denied.

Also you probably wouldn’t be able to split a players time like you’ve suggested. They’d have to go through waivers probably, and if they are good they Iggy be claimed.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

first of all, if you are parking a star player, most likely this player would not clear waivers on the way to the AHL

 

[bolobow]

Thanks, that answers the question. Waivers would definitely mess this plan up. No player would sign this contract since they would get claimed and end up playing full-time in the NHL on a league min contract. Potentially still could work for a waiver exempt player.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Interesting question and I wonder what the answer is as well. Could be an interesting way to get someone to agree to signing without a NMC/NTC. I also agree the league would likely step in though. The waivers thing isn't really relevant because if the team wanted to send the player down, they'd be happy to have him claimed and the player wouldn't care because they've still have their sweetheart deal with built-in insurance.

 

[Rec T]

The waivers thing isn't really relevant because if the team wanted to send the player down, they'd be happy to have him claimed and the player wouldn't care because they've still have their sweetheart deal with built-in insurance.

Except that the star player that's pulling these shenanigans most likely 'won't' get sent to the AHL by his new team & will then be playing for league minimum for them. That probably won't go over will with the star player.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Waiver-exempt but not subject to an ELC and someone you would pay $10 million to be a playoff only player without worrying about the ill effects of him not playing nhl games all season?

Who is this unicorn player?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Except that the star player that's pulling these shenanigans most likely 'won't' get sent to the AHL by his new team & will then be playing for league minimum for them. That probably won't go over will with the star player.

But then the player could then just mail it in and force their hand to be sent down or traded to a contender, etc. It's kind if a win-win for the player and the team. I just find it an interesting idea.

 

[Cool Hand Puke]

New Jersey loses a draft pick just for this thread

 

[Spawn]

Two way contracts usually (not always) don’t require to put players on waivers when assigning them to the club’s AHL affiliate. That’s what makes the question interesting.

I tried to dig into the CBA a bit out of curiosity, and while it made no mention of any max amount for the AHL portion of a two-way contract, it seems to imply that the NHL salary > AHL salary.

It also mentions all the benefits that these players have access to only when they are on the NHL roster.

Waiver eligibility is just a combination of age and professional experience. If a guy is on a two-way deal or not doesn’t matter.

 

[Rec T]

But then the player could then just mail it in and force their hand to be sent down or traded to a contender, etc. It's kind if a win-win for the player and the team. I just find it an interesting idea.

I guess it depends on who the player is/how much he's managed to bank over the years.

I can easily see the team tossing him up into the press box as a healthy scratch (very insulting to his ego at that level) until he's willing to play to his ability again. The acquiring team in this case pretty much holds all the cards regarding his future career. In this case it's a case of millionaires (player) playing chicken with billionaires (owners). The owners can just sit back & wait things out until it starts to hurt the player where it really counts, in their pocket/career stats.

 

[zar]

Without looking it up I bet that no player makes an AHL salary as high as the league minimum in the NHL.
Also even your scenario was completely legal, like the Avery screening Broduer, Bettman would close that loophole in a New York minute.

Bettman closing it would depend on which team was exposing it.

 

[TheKingSlayer]

Two way contracts usually (not always) don’t require to put players on waivers when assigning them to the club’s AHL affiliate. That’s what makes the question interesting.

I tried to dig into the CBA a bit out of curiosity, and while it made no mention of any max amount for the AHL portion of a two-way contract, it seems to imply that the NHL salary > AHL salary.

It also mentions all the benefits that these players have access to only when they are on the NHL roster.

Tell me you don't play way too much CHEL without telling me you don't play way too much CHEL.

 

[SomeDude]

Two way contracts usually (not always) don’t require to put players on waivers when assigning them to the club’s AHL affiliate. That’s what makes the question interesting.
.

No, this isn’t how it works. Waivers is based on age and games played. To get to the AHL, a player who has met that threshold has to go through waivers to prevent shenanigans such as this.

No half decent player, especially making a small amount at the NHL level, is going to clear waivers for this to work making this a pretty uninteresting idea.

 

[coolboarder]

I think that there is no language about AHL contract, I suppose you could entice players to play 5 million dollars in AHL and play the whole season there on one-way contract. The NHL doesn't own the AHL so that is biggest difference there. That is why even in a NHL lockout, there are AHL hockey still running. I do not believe that there is a salary cap but it is on your own risk. However, the AHL does have the cap on veterans spots up to 5 veterans players over a certain of NHL/AHL games per team to prevent teams loading up by an independent owner that is not under NHL affiliation, for example, the Chicago Wolves with full of veterans.

 

[The Nuge]

Waiver-exempt but not subject to an ELC and someone you would pay $10 million to be a playoff only player without worrying about the ill effects of him not playing nhl games all season?

Who is this unicorn player?

Ya my first thought was a guy like Hall who had injury issues the first 2 years of his career, and then played in the shortened season, but even he played too many. You need to miss over a full season worth of games in your first 3 years.

But then the player could then just mail it in and force their hand to be sent down or traded to a contender, etc. It's kind if a win-win for the player and the team. I just find it an interesting idea.

Except there’s no reason for the team to do it. If you could have say Stamkos for next season at league minimum, even if he phoned it in he’s going to be better than a standard league minimum player. And if he refuses to play, you just suspend him and he can’t help any other team. There’s absolutely no downside to claiming him. He’d never make it down, so the team signing him is just guaranteeing he’s playing elsewhere. And a team like Vegas would just go back on the agreement and say “**** you idiot” and keep him up all year at league minimum. Negating the incentive for the player.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Tell me you don't play way too much CHEL without telling me you don't play way too much CHEL.

I do know the rule actually, I just didn’t want to get into all the technicalities of waiver eligibility. In the facts, most players that are on two way contracts are waiver exempt due to age and number of games played.

As for chel, I stopped playing after NHL 21 because the game is shit and it never improves year after year.

 

[Brodeur]

* Edited to reduce the scope to waiver exempt players.

Can't imagine too many players who could command 5+ million being thrilled to spend most/all of the regular season riding buses in the AHL. I'd think the agent would also advise against it since it could affect their next contract.

Realistically I don't think this applies to that many players either. 2019 draftee like Tobias Bjornfot had finished his ELC and was on his second contract. He was recently claimed on waivers. Other 2019 (late-2000 birthday) guys like Lassi Thomson and Nolan Foote are in the last year of their mandatory ELCs but also are past their waiver exemption; Thomson was claimed during preseason.

The bizarro case would be trying to stash an older European prospect. Hypothetically next spring, the Devils are expected to sign Arseny Gritsyuk to his mandatory 1 year ELC once his KHL season is over. Then in the summer he'd be RFA. But it wouldn't make a ton of sense for Gritsyuk to want to be stashed. He'd want to establish an NHL track record for his next contract.

Edit: Maybe not the same exact scenario, but Vegas signed Vadim Shipachyov to a two year, 1 way contract. He was waiver exempt and they sent him to the AHL. Shipachyov refused to report and they ended up terminating his contract. Shipachyov opted to return to Russia.

 

[cyris]

Ignoring that if this circumvented the cap the league would just reject the contract and take picks from the team that handed out that contract. See the Devils and Kovalchuk.

Wouldn’t that 10m still count against the cap? It’s an NHL contract. Even when that are in the AHL. As seen by the fact that 2-way deals still count against the 50 contract limit when players are in the AHL. Other players on 2-way deals just don’t count on the cap when they are in the AHL because they are below the AAV that can be buried.

 

[Vector]

Highest AHL salary I can remember seeing would have been in the 400k range for an AHL vet player signing a one-year two-way deal.

Only cause I know this off the top of my head, Canucks currently have several players making more than 400k in AHL salaries (Juulsen, Dries, Di Giuseppe, Wolanin, & Irwin). Granted, two of them are on the NHL roster.

 

[BLNY]

Only cause I know this off the top of my head, Canucks currently have several players making more than 400k in AHL salaries (Juulsen, Dries, Di Giuseppe, Wolanin, & Irwin). Granted, two of them are on the NHL roster.

Montreal has gone through a few AHL vet contracts over the years. Maillet is currently on a deal that pays him 350k

 

[TGWL]

If the player was worth the money, you'd lose him sending him to waivers. Back in 2013'ish, NHL wanted to prevent stashing star/ringers/good players in the AHL. Being that the Wade Redden rule took place, I can't see the NHL allowing something like this to happen when they took measures to prevent being able to bury cap in the first place. They agreed to league min + 350k, so there's no way the NHL would pass through a contract signed like this, or passed through to bury cap.