Proposal: 1st OA for 2nd OA

[OverTheLine]

The more I think about it, the more I think the only scenario that makes much sense is if the Isles are dead-set on Hagens and do a three-way trade down to 3rd.

It will cost too much for the Sharks to move up if they're the only one sending assets, but if they split the cost with Chicago (who then also gets their man in Misa) then the price would be somewhat more bearable. But that seems a bit farfetched and cumbersome, so it's hard to see it all coming together.

 

[BillR10]

He said he’s open to anything though. Moving up, moving down, standing pat.

Most likely is standing pat, given the history of the draft.

While correct the part about people coming to him with an offer that makes sense says to me he isn't packaging a haul

 

[seabass45]

While correct the part about people coming to him with an offer that makes sense says to me he isn't packaging a haul

FWIW I think the original offer from OP is absurd. There’s an opportunity to play SJ and Chicago off eachother and potentially move down but it might be for a late first or equivalent at best.

 

[BillR10]

FWIW I think the original offer from OP is absurd. There’s an opportunity to play SJ and Chicago off eachother and potentially move down but it might be for a late first or equivalent at best.

While I see where you're coming from Grier said if an offer comes to him. Can't play off someone that's not bidding

 

[Hull2Roenick2Kane]

Basically the way this works is the Islanders play Chicago and SJ against each other. If SJ is just as happy with Misa or Schaefer, the deal can be with Chicago. As long as Chicago values Misa or Schaefer ahead of Hagens, they have incentive to make the deal.

After a day talking to people who have a lot of overlap in the local hockey community (I coach youth lacrosse- there's a lot of overlap) I didn't realize how much the sentiment is for drafting Hagens. Like, among the hardest of hardcore hockey people who are also the hardest or hardcore Islanders fans, it's a given *for them* that there's only one thing NYI can do.

Given the incentives, there's got to be a reasonable way to handle this where NYI can get Hagens + if that's the decision NYI make.

If, otoh, there's Chicago and SJ really don't care and are happy with whoever they get? Well, then there won't be any movement.

I think Chicago at this point just wants to draft where they are at and move on, but in a fantasy world where I were in charge I think it would look a little something like this.

If you want to deal with Chicago It wont be for any of the following : Rinzel, Levshunov, Vlasic. You'll probably get 3OA + Kaiser or Del Mastro(which would hurt and I would personally hate because he's established himself as a solid 2D this year on a crowded D-core) + the a Hawks 2nd round pick (34 for Kaiser or 60 for Del Mastro).

Apparently sarcasm is not your strong suit. Facts are that MG has said he doesn't believe there's a true #1 OA in this draft. He also said that he is not at a point to draft on need and he will take best available. He's also said he could use the later draft capitol in trades to supplement this team currently so think young players or RFAs. So from everything he's said you can almost surely count the sharks out of trading for the 1OA. The bigger question is if Islanders trade down, let say Chicago get 1OA and takes Schaefer, I believe MG takes Misa due to him being bigger than Hagens and he has a connection to Igor playing for Saginaw. But you can't count MG out fully from taking Hagens at 2 as we all know he loves that Boston connection and he may think hes a better winger for Celebrini or Smith.... Maybe he goes to the Isles, if you really want Hagens well give you #2 for #3 plus..... that's got about as good of odds as the sharks trading up to 1 in which both cases are unlikely

The Hawks would then turn around and dangle the 1st to San Jose and try to pry the Dallas 1st or San Jose 2nd from them for 1 OA to 2 OA.

The only problem with this scenario is that losing Del Mastro or Kaiser leaves the Hawks with 3 PPQB defensemen with Korchinski, Rinzel, and Levshunov, and weakens the overall defense of the team. (Hawks get Misa in this best case scenario improving offense)

If the Sharks don't take this then the Blackhawks happily select Schaefer and Korchinski goes on the trade block. I am higher on Korchinski than most because of his good showing at the AHL All Star game (MVP) and strong finish this year. (NHL and AHL). Korchinski probably keeps Schaefer's spot warm until he either proves himself a 1LD or Schaefer is ready. (4 PPQBs. great...)

Blackhawks fans then look forward to a decade of
Rinzel/Schaefer
Levshunov/Vlasic

none of this however makes any sense and only helps New York Islanders save face to their fans for not having to pull the trigger on Schaefer and still getting the hometown hero they want. I'd expect Chicago and San Jose to remember they bailed them out on this and look forward for a favor to return in the future.

We can all be best friends.

 

[Schemp]

A 3-way with Utah;
SJ trade the 2nd to Utah for 4th and then trades the 4th for Dobson.

I have no idea what the ask would be from the Sharks to make it happen, but the Islanders get Schaefer and Hagen.

 

[Grinner]

A 3-way with Utah;
SJ trade the 2nd to Utah for 4th and then trades the 4th for Dobson.

I have no idea what the ask would be from the Sharks to make it happen, but the Islanders get Schaefer and Hagen.

That's a pass from SJ

 

[WSS11]

A 3-way with Utah;
SJ trade the 2nd to Utah for 4th and then trades the 4th for Dobson.

I have no idea what the ask would be from the Sharks to make it happen, but the Islanders get Schaefer and Hagen.

That’s a hard no from SJ and what’s the adder from Utah? 4th plus what?

 

[Patty Ice]

A 3-way with Utah;
SJ trade the 2nd to Utah for 4th and then trades the 4th for Dobson.

I have no idea what the ask would be from the Sharks to make it happen, but the Islanders get Schaefer and Hagen.

Utah trades the 4th for the 2nd with no add ons. Sounds legit.

 

[Schemp]

That's a pass from SJ

without specifying what the ask would be? Some fans were suggesting Horvat(NTC) and Dobson(RFA) for the 4th and then you add what ever the Mammoth add, that's a good haul...

Utah trades the 4th for the 2nd with no add ons. Sounds legit.

"I don't know what the ask would be for the Sharks?" Kesselring? But they are acquiring Dobson. A forward? Center? Load up on prospects? Take a chance on Ingram? Need to fill up their roster?

Don't follow the Sharks...

 

[BillR10]

I think Chicago at this point just wants to draft where they are at and move on, but in a fantasy world where I were in charge I think it would look a little something like this.

If you want to deal with Chicago It wont be for any of the following : Rinzel, Levshunov, Vlasic. You'll probably get 3OA + Kaiser or Del Mastro(which would hurt and I would personally hate because he's established himself as a solid 2D this year on a crowded D-core) + the a Hawks 2nd round pick (34 for Kaiser or 60 for Del Mastro).


The Hawks would then turn around and dangle the 1st to San Jose and try to pry the Dallas 1st or San Jose 2nd from them for 1 OA to 2 OA.

The only problem with this scenario is that losing Del Mastro or Kaiser leaves the Hawks with 3 PPQB defensemen with Korchinski, Rinzel, and Levshunov, and weakens the overall defense of the team. (Hawks get Misa in this best case scenario improving offense)

If the Sharks don't take this then the Blackhawks happily select Schaefer and Korchinski goes on the trade block. I am higher on Korchinski than most because of his good showing at the AHL All Star game (MVP) and strong finish this year. (NHL and AHL). Korchinski probably keeps Schaefer's spot warm until he either proves himself a 1LD or Schaefer is ready. (4 PPQBs. great...)

Blackhawks fans then look forward to a decade of
Rinzel/Schaefer
Levshunov/Vlasic

none of this however makes any sense and only helps New York Islanders save face to their fans for not having to pull the trigger on Schaefer and still getting the hometown hero they want. I'd expect Chicago and San Jose to remember they bailed them out on this and look forward for a favor to return in the future.

We can all be best friends.

And I'd expect the Sharks would be happy to take Misa unless they get an offer to trade down that makes sense. If the sharks took Misa, sharks fans would have the next decade to look forward to

Eklund-Celebrini-Smith
Musty-Misa-Igor

While still having a bottom 6 of Graf, Bystead, Ostupchuk, Lund, Halttunen, Svoboda etc. And that's if MG doesn't go big game hunting in UFA.

From everything Grier has said, it would be very surprising to see him in a bidding war for 1OA as everything he's said would lead you to think he's considering trading down If the offers right. Now If Schafer was a RHD.......or the Hawks were dangling Levshunov...... then I'd imagine Grier would be jumping for it. But with Dickinson, Muk, Cagnoni, Thrun, Wallenius, Havelid all LHDs, paying top dollar in a bidding war to add Schaefer doesn't make sense.

 

[Grinner]

without specifying what the ask would be? Some fans were suggesting Horvat(NTC) and Dobson(RFA) for the 4th and then you add what ever the Mammoth add, that's a good haul...

"I don't know what the ask would be for the Sharks?" Kesselring? But they are acquiring Dobson. A forward? Center? Load up on prospects? Take a chance on Ingram? Need to fill up their roster?

Don't follow the Sharks...

I don't know what we'd ask from Utah. Certainly Guenther would be too much.
Kesselring and Doan maybe.
But when it comes to Dobson. He's been brought up a lot on the Sharks board and it's agreed he's not worth that high of a pick. If he's obtained , then it's felt we ghave other picks and assets to try and land Dobson.
If the Sharks are set on Martone, then I'd probably be okay with a trade down to 4. Otherwise, stay put and take who drops between Schaefer or Misa.

 

[Patty Ice]

without specifying what the ask would be? Some fans were suggesting Horvat(NTC) and Dobson(RFA) for the 4th and then you add what ever the Mammoth add, that's a good haul...

"I don't know what the ask would be for the Sharks?" Kesselring? But they are acquiring Dobson. A forward? Center? Load up on prospects? Take a chance on Ingram? Need to fill up their roster?

Don't follow the Sharks...

If the point of this is to acquire a top 4 pick for Dobson, as someone already stated, that is an overvalue for a team like the Sharks. Adding Utah to the deal for the purpose of lowering the overall of the pick doesn't justify giving up the 2OA for Dobson and whatever Utah would add. The Sharks would be in a much better position to take whoever is left between Misa and Schaefer.

Be happy your team won the lottery. No need to get greedy and fantasize about picking up a second top 5 pick because you can't decide which guy you'd want more. Bad teams aren't usually in the business of dealing high picks unless it's massively in their favor.

 

[BKarchitect]

The more I think about it, the more I think the only scenario that makes much sense is if the Isles are dead-set on Hagens and do a three-way trade down to 3rd.

It will cost too much for the Sharks to move up if they're the only one sending assets, but if they split the cost with Chicago (who then also gets their man in Misa) then the price would be somewhat more bearable. But that seems a bit farfetched and cumbersome, so it's hard to see it all coming together.

I really think if the Isles want Hagens, if they value him beyond his “local boy” connection more than Schaefer or Misa (which…while not trending that way on consensus lists - certainly isn’t impossible), then they will just take him at #1.

The difference between the top guys isn’t big enough that you’re gonna receive a boatload offer to move down 1-2 spots. At the same time - I don’t buy that the Isles are gonna give all three guys the same “grade” internally and would be happy with any of them. There’s going to be a preference, internally, and any move back puts that at risk as you don’t know what the other team is going to do.

The Isles have been handed a glorious and unpredicted chance here…they should not overthink this…just pick the guy you want at #1.

 

[boredmale]

The Isles have been handed a glorious and unpredicted chance here…they should not overthink this…just pick the guy you want at #1.

Just my 2 cents but I rather have Schaeffer or Misa over Hagens but a few decent draft picks can make all the difference to sway me given how barren our prospect pool is.

I have to think the local factor just for marketing purpose though will play somewhat into it. Also nothing against Shaeffer who might/probably will end the best of the bunch 10 years from now, but for the first 5 years he probably will be the 3rd best of the 3 guys so if you looking for instant return on pick you are better off with the forwards most likely.

 

[CanMerc]

I doesn’t look like NYI and SJS are targeting the same positional need so there’s really zero reason for SJS to make any trade to move up that 1 spot

 

[impaaaaaact]

I doesn’t look like NYI and SJS are targeting the same positional need so there’s really zero reason for SJS to make any trade to move up that 1 spot

They are... we'll take Schaefer at one.

 

[miscs75]

They are... we'll take Schaefer at one.

We’re also targeting a GM so Lou doesn’t have to get involved at anything other then walking the new person around to show them the facility.

 

[Smok3d]

If I’m the Sharks I don’t make a move at all. If Isles are trading, that means they aren’t taking Schaefer.

 

[boredmale]

If I’m the Sharks I don’t make a move at all. If Isles are trading, that means they aren’t taking Schaefer.

Can't speak for the Islanders but I take Schaeffer #1 but if I can get a good deal to move down 1 or 2 spots I take it. I wouldn't ask for the word, this isn't like the difference between McDavid and Eichel or Hughes and Kakko. Toronto's late first would probably be enough for me to say yeah maybe I'll take my chances with Misa(or try turn around as see what I can get from Chicago or Utah).

Islanders cupboard is bare so a few extra picks wouldn't hurt

Now on the flip side SJ can just wait it out and hope if Islanders trade down they other team is targeting the one of Misa or Schaefer they rather not have(Chicago is definitely is a much easier target to see if they want to move up)

 

[impaaaaaact]

If I’m the Sharks I don’t make a move at all. If Isles are trading, that means they aren’t taking Schaefer.

Not necessarily. I think they could be enticed not to take him with the right offer as we have more than one organizational need... but they'll take him without that offer

 

[Juxtaposer]

Not necessarily. I think they could be enticed not to take him with the right offer as we have more than one organizational need... but they'll take him without that offer

If there is any wavering at all, any hesitancy from the Isles to take Schaefer at #1, Grier should simply pay the cost to move up (or have an agreement that the Isles will take a forward) so long as it's not sacrificing a different core piece.

For the Isles, I think Misa could make sense as I highly doubt they're bad enough to pick top-5 next year and legit #1 centers are very hard to find outside the top-5. Top pairing defensemen, on the other hand, can be found littered through the 5-60 range in the draft regularly. He'd be a ridiculously good fit for Barzal too, IMO.

 

[Smok3d]

If all it takes is a late first to move you off Schaefer, he really was never your guy to begin with.

Not necessarily. I think they could be enticed not to take him with the right offer as we have more than one organizational need... but they'll take him without that offer

The more I think about it, the more I’m almost positive Islanders are going for a forward.

 

[impaaaaaact]

If all it takes is a late first to move you off Schaefer, he really was never your guy to begin with.

The more I think about it, the more I’m almost positive Islanders are going for a forward.

We don't even have a GM yet, it's hard to be sure of anything. It would absolutely take more than a late first to move down.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

We don't even have a GM yet, it's hard to be sure of anything. It would absolutely take more than a late first to move down.

I wouldn’t pay a late 1st to move up 1 spot. I’m happy to draft either Schaefer or Misa. If we were drafting 3rd it would be different.