Proposal: 1st OA for 2nd OA

[saintunspecified]

By Dickinson you mean Emily Dickinson right because downgrading Dobson and the pick for that offer is just horrid.

Emily? Sam? Bruce? or Dickens?

 

[miscs75]

Emily? Sam? Bruce? or Dickens?

Jason?

 

[saintunspecified]

I understand.
Dickinson is our 1st line LD of the future
More than likely Schaefer will be an Islander

That's what I thought yesterday until I talked to folks. The overlap between hard core Islanders fans and youth sports families is extreme. That was probably strengthened by NYI's success during the pandemic years.

People who say that as considerations go it's the sort of thing that listening to would make a franchise a "joke" but there's a dynamic here. I guess something similar could be the case in Boston, but it's just smaller, and so that overlap is magnified.

 

[saintunspecified]

Jason?

There were the best of Dicken's sons, and there was Jason.

 

[Grinner]

That's what I thought yesterday until I talked to folks. The overlap between hard core Islanders fans and youth sports families is extreme. That was probably strengthened by NYI's success during the pandemic years.

People who say that as considerations go it's the sort of thing that listening to would make a franchise a "joke" but there's a dynamic here. I guess something similar could be the case in Boston, but it's just smaller, and so that overlap is magnified.

If the NYI really want to go with a forward 1st overall, then it gives SJ little incentive to move up. Now, NY could reach out to Chicago instead, if they really want the hometown guy. It still leave SJ in the exact same position. There's probably just as much chance Chicago want Misa too.
I'm not saying SJ wouldn't have some interest in securing Schaefer. If that's who they really want. But, I can't see them parting with a top tier prospect to do so.

 

[macbowes]

To SJS: 1OA (Schaefer)
To NYI: 2OA (Hagens) + DAL 2025 1st (28-32OA) + OTT 2025 2nd (53OA) + Sahlin-Wallenius (53OA 2024)

SJS get to take Schaefer, the clear best player available, in my opinion. They give up a 1st, and 2nd, and a LD prospect, which is now a position of strength, with Schaefer, and Dickinson. SJS still has a plethora of picks, certainly more than they can actually develop.

NYI get to take the local kid. They could probably get him at 3, maybe even 4, but they take him at 2, to lock him in. They get a LD prospect (B- level), another 1st, and a 2nd. They need any picks they can get, as their pool is quite bad.

 

[WSS11]

To SJS: 1OA (Schaefer)
To NYI: 2OA (Hagens) + DAL 2025 1st (28-32OA) + OTT 2025 2nd (53OA) + Sahlin-Wallenius (53OA 2024)

SJS get to take Schaefer, the clear best player available, in my opinion. They give up a 1st, and 2nd, and a LD prospect, which is now a position of strength, with Schaefer, and Dickinson. SJS still has a plethora of picks, certainly more than they can actually develop.

NYI get to take the local kid. They could probably get him at 3, maybe even 4, but they take him at 2, to lock him in. They get a LD prospect (B- level), another 1st, and a 2nd. They need any picks they can get, as their pool is quite bad.

This proposal is probably the closest to the actual value it would take to move up to 1OA. More draft capital then I’d like to give up but I’d pull the trigger

 

[captainpaxil]

The Dallas pick by itself should be enough

 

[Ace Card Bedard]

Islanders can turn around real fast and build a foundation, Sharks need a defenseman not a center.

William Eklund
2nd OA

For
1st OA

If the Sharks "need" a defenseman they can pick Misa and trade him for a defenseman.
Why would they add?

I don't see a scenario for #1 and #2 to trade in this draft when you have two 1stOA worthy players at the top.

 

[BillR10]

Okay, that's silly.

Basically the way this works is the Islanders play Chicago and SJ against each other. If SJ is just as happy with Misa or Schaefer, the deal can be with Chicago. As long as Chicago values Misa or Schaefer ahead of Hagens, they have incentive to make the deal.

After a day talking to people who have a lot of overlap in the local hockey community (I coach youth lacrosse- there's a lot of overlap) I didn't realize how much the sentiment is for drafting Hagens. Like, among the hardest of hardcore hockey people who are also the hardest or hardcore Islanders fans, it's a given *for them* that there's only one thing NYI can do.

Given the incentives, there's got to be a reasonable way to handle this where NYI can get Hagens + if that's the decision NYI make.

If, otoh, there's Chicago and SJ really don't care and are happy with whoever they get? Well, then there won't be any movement.

Apparently sarcasm is not your strong suit. Facts are that MG has said he doesn't believe there's a true #1 OA in this draft. He also said that he is not at a point to draft on need and he will take best available. He's also said he could use the later draft capitol in trades to supplement this team currently so think young players or RFAs. So from everything he's said you can almost surely count the sharks out of trading for the 1OA. The bigger question is if Islanders trade down, let say Chicago get 1OA and takes Schaefer, I believe MG takes Misa due to him being bigger than Hagens and he has a connection to Igor playing for Saginaw. But you can't count MG out fully from taking Hagens at 2 as we all know he loves that Boston connection and he may think hes a better winger for Celebrini or Smith.... Maybe he goes to the Isles, if you really want Hagens well give you #2 for #3 plus..... that's got about as good of odds as the sharks trading up to 1 in which both cases are unlikely

 

[sportsvg]

Not sure how this makes any sense at all from the SJ side no matter how small the ask is If NYI offer the 1st pick to SJ it is a pretty clear indication they do not plan to pick Schafer at 1 so they are better off just saying no and picking Schafer for free at 2 when they don't take him. I guess you are possibly preventing NYI from trading with someone else for 1 but can't see NYI willing to move too far down unless they are trading out of the top six for something significant.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Hey man, just spitballing. Didn't see a whole lot of RD on SJ or in the system, so...

Yeah, Sharks only have medium/mid tier RD prospects. Eric Pohlkamp is the most likely to make the Sharks, Jacks Thompson looks to be at best a 3rd pair RD and that's more likely due to a lack of prospects at RD in the org.

As far as a trade goes with NYI, there's really no reason for San Jose to trade because Misa fills another area of need.

Yes, Schaefer would be the top choice for the Sharks, but it's unlikely they would give up a big package to move up.

For the Isles the clear cut choice is Schaefer, which is why I find strange why people want to trade to the Sharks.

If the Sharks landed at 3 it would be a different story. There also even a small possibility that the Sharks take Martone or even Frondell at 2.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

That's what I thought yesterday until I talked to folks. The overlap between hard core Islanders fans and youth sports families is extreme. That was probably strengthened by NYI's success during the pandemic years.

People who say that as considerations go it's the sort of thing that listening to would make a franchise a "joke" but there's a dynamic here. I guess something similar could be the case in Boston, but it's just smaller, and so that overlap is magnified.

Frankly, the #1 should be the litmus test for Islander ownership and the new Islander GM.

There's one succesful example of picking a #1 D-man first in Potvin, there's a second example of missing out ... Hedman vis a vis Tavares, which wasn't an egregious mistake per se, but it could certainly be argued that Hedman was the better choice for the long term.

It would seem that Schaefer would follow along the lines of the Potvin pick and I think Schaefer is Scott Niedermayer 2.0.

I don't think Misa is a terrible #1 pick, but I think a more than few Isles fans have suggested that it would be a rehash of Hedman v. Tavares.

Hagens, imho would be a mistake, not becuase he's bad or will be a bust, but rather it's extremely hard to get an actual #1 all around d-man. Not to mention he's undersized and there are some reasonable questions about offensive upside in terms of scoring.

The Sharks have had two Norris trophy winners and I would argue that neither were all-around #1s. Burns was more of #1 OFD and Karlsson, post-Achilles injury, was amazing at thew breakout and had amaing offensive skills, but was not great on the defensive end.

Neidermayer wasn't as a prolific scorer as Burns or Karlsson, but a much better all-arounder. The same could be said for Lidstrom, Robinson etc
.

 

[Patty Ice]

To SJS: 1OA (Schaefer)
To NYI: 2OA (Hagens) + DAL 2025 1st (28-32OA) + OTT 2025 2nd (53OA) + Sahlin-Wallenius (53OA 2024)

I'd agree to one or the other of Ott 2nd and Sahlin-Wallenius but not both.

 

[x Tame Impala]

There's really no need for the Sharks (or Hawks) to add a ton of value here. If the Islanders are going against the BPA route in order to bring in a home town kid, that's completely fine. But this is only a legitimate discussion because hypothetically the Islanders would be choosing to leave value on the table by not taking the consensus #1 or #2 pick. It's not like the Hawks or Sharks are begging for Schaefer. Walking away with Misa, Martone, Frondell, or Desnoyers is still a great draft outcome.

I'd be ok with the Hawks giving up 3rd OVR + TOR 1st + FLA 2026 1st at most. Certainly not something like 3rd OVR + Korchinski. I'd imagine Sharks fans feel the same way. There's a reason these trade up/downs this early in the draft so rarely happen. Either it's a clear consensus and no GM wants to be the guy who passed on a great player, or there isn't a consensus and you're drafting from a pool of very similarly talented players.

FWIW I'd bet Utah would be the best trade partner for them. It seems doubtful the Hawks would take Hagens at #3 and I know the Sharks would be foolish to not take Schaefer or Misa. Interesting draft nonetheless. There's a non-zero chance that the Islanders pass on Schaefer.

 

[BillR10]

From Curtis Pashelka

"Mike Grier said he's still open to trading the No. 2 pick.

"I always have to be open to anything that we think can make us a better hockey team and a better organization. And if there's a package out there that someone presents us with, we'll have to think it through and see if it makes sense for us. I'm always trying to be open-minded to things like that.""

Based on that I think we can stop the crazy offers now. The fact MG said if there's a package out there someone presents us that makes sense should tell everyone he's not paying top dolla for 1OA. Probably more likely he's considering trading down if he gets the offer he wants the way he worded it

 

[Andre Palot]

To be realistic, I was thinking before seeing this:

Eklund
2nd overall

for

1st overall
Isles 2nd
Danny Nelson

Isles should take that and run

 

[Grinner]

To be realistic, I was thinking before seeing this:

Eklund
2nd overall

for

1st overall
Isles 2nd
Danny Nelson

That's a pass for San Jose

 

[miscs75]

From Curtis Pashelka

"Mike Grier said he's still open to trading the No. 2 pick.

"I always have to be open to anything that we think can make us a better hockey team and a better organization. And if there's a package out there that someone presents us with, we'll have to think it through and see if it makes sense for us. I'm always trying to be open-minded to things like that.""

Based on that I think we can stop the crazy offers now. The fact MG said if there's a package out there someone presents us that makes sense should tell everyone he's not paying top dolla for 1OA. Probably more likely he's considering trading down if he gets the offer he wants the way he worded it

He's probably looking at trading down and picking up a quality player for the roster with the offset. He's expecting a team desperate to move up to offer him a somewhat decent roster piece that helps the lineup in addition to a lower pick. My guess it'll all depend on who the Isles target and what he finds out based on that. If the Isles go Misa/Hagens, someone who's chasing a defenseman later in the 1st will probably look at paying the moon for Schaefer.

 

[Grinner]

He's probably looking at trading down and picking up a quality player for the roster with the offset. He's expecting a team desperate to move up to offer him a somewhat decent roster piece that helps the lineup in addition to a lower pick. My guess it'll all depend on who the Isles target and what he finds out based on that. If the Isles go Misa/Hagens, someone who's chasing a defenseman later in the 1st will probably look at paying the moon for Schaefer.

Its more likely he'd consider trading down fir a different forward than Misa vs passing on the only real defender of note in Schaefer

 

[seabass45]

From Curtis Pashelka

"Mike Grier said he's still open to trading the No. 2 pick.

"I always have to be open to anything that we think can make us a better hockey team and a better organization. And if there's a package out there that someone presents us with, we'll have to think it through and see if it makes sense for us. I'm always trying to be open-minded to things like that.""

Based on that I think we can stop the crazy offers now. The fact MG said if there's a package out there someone presents us that makes sense should tell everyone he's not paying top dolla for 1OA. Probably more likely he's considering trading down if he gets the offer he wants the way he worded it

He said he’s open to anything though. Moving up, moving down, standing pat.

Most likely is standing pat, given the history of the draft.

 

[miscs75]

Its more likely he'd consider trading down fir a different forward than Misa vs passing on the only real defender of note in Schaefer

It would all depend on the package at hand. If lets say for example a team in the 12-16 range is desperate enough to move up is offering a prospect (who he's knows is close to making the jump) and that pick in the range he might move down. Teams if they're really after a player will get desperate.

 

[Grinner]

It would all depend on the package at hand. If lets say for example a team in the 12-16 range is desperate enough to move up is offering a prospect (who he's knows is close to making the jump) and that pick in the range he might move down. Teams if they're really after a player will get desperate.

It must be one hell of a prospect.
That's far big a drop. SJ could always move up from their 2nd 1st round pick

 

[miscs75]

It must be one hell of a prospect.
That's far big a drop. SJ could always move up from their 2nd 1st round pick

Exactly my point. It has to be worth it in the form of a prospect because no one's trading down that many picks to get some 3rd rounder who's barely developing in the minors/juniors/college. Ideally San Jose does hold more value in terms of the draft with all things considered. Sure the Isles can trade down to still select Hagens and accumulate other pieces (picks/prospects) but ultimately a team might target San Jose at 2 because of the fact that essentially everyone will be on the board at that point (minus one of Schaefer/Misa/Hagens).

 

[Grinner]

Exactly my point. It has to be worth it in the form of a prospect because no one's trading down that many picks to get some 3rd rounder who's barely developing in the minors/juniors/college. Ideally San Jose does hold more value in terms of the draft with all things considered. Sure the Isles can trade down to still select Hagens and accumulate other pieces (picks/prospects) but ultimately a team might target San Jose at 2 because of the fact that essentially everyone will be on the board at that point (minus one of Schaefer/Misa/Hagens).

I think the Sharks ought to stay put
Depending on the cost, I'd be okay if they decided to trade up
Depending on the return, I wouldn't be opposed to trading down 1 or 2 spots.
Walking away with either Schaefer or Misa, is a win win for San Jose