1OA 2025

[Soundgarden]

Nashville won't draft Schaefer unless Hagens and Misa are gone.

 

[frontsfan67]

Nashville won't draft Schaefer unless Hagens and Misa are gone.

their 3 RHD are Barron, Blankenburg, and an old Schenn. If they draft Hagens or Misa over Schaefer then they need to be drug tested

 

[Soundgarden]

their 3 RHD are Barron, Blankenburg, and an old Schenn. If they draft Hagens or Misa over Schaefer then they need to be drug tested

We can find defensemen without a 1OA, Canada's top pairing from the WJC are both Preds for example. We've been looking for a number one center for 25+ years. Trotz has been wanting to make a splash for a top offensive talent at the draft the past two years this is the only way to get one.

 

[frontsfan67]

We can find defensemen without a 1OA, Canada's top pairing from the WJC are both Preds for example. We've been looking for a number one center for 25+ years. Trotz has been wanting to make a splash for a top offensive talent at the draft the past two years this is the only way to get one.

Schaefers 2 years younger and already better.

 

[Soundgarden]

Schaefers 2 years younger and already better.

Ok? We can draft a defenseman with our other two 1sts and our two 2nds. We need an elite offensive talent and you can't get that at 13th-18th overall.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

There are 222 NHL draft picks that have played in the NCAA this season. 14 of them are first round picks.

There are 87 NHL drafted picks in the OHL this season. 16 of them are first round picks.

Average Amount Of NHL Draft Picks Per Team

NCAA: 3.47
OHL: 4.35

Average Amount Of First Round NHL Draft Picks Per Team

NCAA: 0.22
OHL: 0.80

Stop with the cooks and cleaners nonsense. Also the NHL is a higher-scoring league than some European pro leagues. Does that make the European pro leagues better than the NHL?

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue.

Is it that the OHL is better than the NCAA? It most definitely is not. It’s frankly not even close.

The NCAA is on average four full years older. Start there, and you’ll realize that like Germany U22 would be better than Canada U18 for the simple fact of being two years older. Comes with being taller, stronger, more gritty, better defensively, and better with tactical aspects.

Is the overall skill and skating level of the best OHL players better? Yeah, maybe. I don’t think it’s a certainty, but the data you state suggests it’s a possibility. Then again, the average NCAA player is much better because they are older. Simple as that. These aren’t remotely comparable leagues.

There are plenty of OHL players who will never be close to good enough for NCAA hockey. Look at all the OHL players committing to play NCAA (and pretty much none of them at the top schools). These are all decent OHL players. None of these guys are the 11th forward or 5th defenseman. Every single NCAA player is good enough to play OHL.

Go look at their Elite Prospects page. UMass-Lowell has zero players that are property of an NHL franchise. That's what the point that he's making

So because they have zero draft picks it means they have 0 NHL prospects? Being a draft pick doesn’t even make you an NHL prospect. Plenty of dudes drafted 6th or 7th round don’t play pro hockey. If you think UMass Lowell doesn’t have any future pro hockey players (and NHL prospects) because there’s no NHL team logo next to their name, I don’t know what to tell you. UMass Lowell rarely attracts drafted NHL players. If they can become 10th in the country though, they must be doing something right to be beating these teams with players who have NHL logos next to their name on EP.

 

[Favin]

My point was that every prospect plays against teams with lots of talent and also against others that have no future NHLers. At the point where these guys are playing in the CHL and the NCAA, everyone there is like the top 5% of hockey players on earth. Even the fourth liners. It's silly for Pavel to refer to players in any high end league as "cooks and cleaners" especially from his keyboard. Pavel is a hypocrite for down playing CHLer's performance because he deems the talent lesser than while also ignoring that most of the players Hagens faces won't be full time NHLer's either.

League averages
NCAA: 22.2 years
OHL: 18.1 years

So its still an 18 year-old playing against 20-24 year old competition...vs 18-year old playing against 16-20 year old competition. Just older, stronger players in college. NCAA game is a lot faster too. And overall is closer to pro style hockey.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

My point was that every prospect plays against teams with lots of talent and also against others that have no future NHLers. At the point where these guys are playing in the CHL and the NCAA, everyone there is like the top 5% of hockey players on earth. Even the fourth liners. It's silly for Pavel to refer to players in any high end league as "cooks and cleaners" especially from his keyboard. Pavel is a hypocrite for down playing CHLer's performance because he deems the talent lesser than while also ignoring that most of the players Hagens faces won't be full time NHLer's either.

“Because he deems their talent lesser”

No man, they are lesser players, on average. You are trying to pervert the truth. NCAA is simply a stronger level of hockey.

College hockey is not like the OHL. Schedules are not evenly generated by the league. A lot of a schedule is picked by each own team.

BC is playing literally like the second strongest schedule in NCAA history. Hagens is honestly playing a level of competition that is like Allsvenskan level this year, if we’re to be real. He has not played “a traditional NCAA schedule” for BC (and the same is true for that whole team, but we’re discussing Hagens here).

I find it very hypocritical that people downplay Hagens stats this year, yet play up Misa’s stats (and even Schaefer and Martone to an extent) when the only guy of the four that got close to being one of the best scorers last year in a junior league was Hagens. And that was with leading the USHL in PPG. What did he do? Seek a higher level of hockey. If only he played another season of Junior to pad his stats, maybe the naive wouldn’t be fooled.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Don’t see any of the current bottom feeders taking Hagens number 1 at this point. Misa and Schaefer have better upside.

 

[bigdog16]

There are 222 NHL draft picks that have played in the NCAA this season. 14 of them are first round picks.

There are 87 NHL drafted picks in the OHL this season. 16 of them are first round picks.

Average Amount Of NHL Draft Picks Per Team

NCAA: 3.47
OHL: 4.35

Average Amount Of First Round NHL Draft Picks Per Team

NCAA: 0.22
OHL: 0.80

Stop with the cooks and cleaners nonsense. Also the NHL is a higher-scoring league than some European pro leagues. Does that make the European pro leagues better than the NHL?

I am not sure I understand what you are arguing? Do you think Hagens would have better or worse numbers in the OHL than he does in the NCAA?

Answer: He would have more than double the amount of points in the OHL, and would probably create bad habits that come with playing against 16 year old kids.

UMass-Lowell would still be one of the best teams in OHL today.




I think there is more of a pro-CHL bias than Canadian bias. On average, the consensus rankings (average of all public)....overestimate number of Canadians in top-32 by 2...and CHLers by 3. (and the further out from draft you go, the larger that number grows). There is a quantifiable bias among 'rankers' and draft observers. It improves as we get closer to draft day...but still there.

As for 1st overall, there are too few cases where is not a clear #1 guy and there are CHL and non-CHL guys completing. But anecdotally, we have seen the tires pumped on Wright, Lafreniere, Patrick etc and brakes pushed on Hughes, Cooley, etc. Can also see in smaller positional debates (ie Sanderson vs Drysdale).

UMass Lowell would go undefeated in the OHL and would beat some of those teams by double digits consistently.

People truly do not understand the massive difference between OHL and NCAA. I have said it before and I will say it again, there are D3 teams that would win the OHL.

 

[Kingpin794]

You guys still aren't getting it that I do not care which leagues you think are better than others.

I understand the NCAA is an older league with more physically developed players. Harder to score in. I get that. You don't need to tell me that.

I take that into account when I evaluate a player. So does everyone else. You two aren't special for figuring out the NCAA is different than the CHL.

What you guys need to remember is that older does not equal better. Its different. Its separate.

"NCAA teams would be top CHL teams". No duh. Good job on cracking that code.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You guys still aren't getting it that I do not care which leagues you think are better than others.

I understand the NCAA is an older league with more physically developed players. Harder to score in. I get that. You don't need to tell me that.

I take that into account when I evaluate a player. So does everyone else. You two aren't special for figuring out the NCAA is different than the CHL.

What you guys need to remember is that older does not equal better. Its different. Its separate.

"NCAA teams would be top CHL teams". No duh. Good job on cracking that code.

So a better doesn’t exist in a competition? Your point is purposely evasive because obviously the answer doesn’t suit your argument.

Sure it’s different, but that’s not all it is. NCAA teams are quite simply better than OHL teams. It’s a higher level of hockey. There’s literally no debate to be had.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Habs have the 9th best odds at the lottery right now. My bad for not including them when they have less than a 5% chance!

...dunna worry, we're on the way down...

 

[Bjorn Le]

UMass Lowell would go undefeated in the OHL and would beat some of those teams by double digits consistently.

People truly do not understand the massive difference between OHL and NCAA. I have said it before and I will say it again, there are D3 teams that would win the OHL.

You make this suggestion all the time, and yet you are suspiciously quiet when it explained to you the U.S. NTDP plays NCAA teams every year and not infrequently beats them (it has struggled this year but the NTDP has one of its weakest teams ever this season). Conversely, the NTDP would be a non-playoff team in the OHL.

You do a disservice to the point you are trying to make that NCAA is a higher level of competition by repeatedly making this factually unsupported statement.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You make this suggestion all the time, and yet you are suspiciously quiet when it explained to you the U.S. NTDP plays NCAA teams every year and not infrequently beats them (it has struggled this year but the NTDP has one of its weakest teams ever this season). Conversely, the NTDP would be a non-playoff team in the OHL.

You do a disservice to the point you are trying to make that NCAA is a higher level of competition by repeatedly making this factually unsupported statement.

Your argument is so weak that you can’t even make a direct point.

NTDP beats college teams that often aren’t playing at full strength. They rest players and give the guys who are sitting in the press box ice time in these games.

And most definitely the NTDP in those good years when they are beating these NCAA teams at a competitive rate would make the OHL playoffs. They already are making the USHL Playoffs (or they themselves at least have the record to make it, disregarding what the U17’s are doing) in those years. Additionally, they basically kick the CHL All-Star teams ass these years at the World U18’s.

 

[bigdog16]

You make this suggestion all the time, and yet you are suspiciously quiet when it explained to you the U.S. NTDP plays NCAA teams every year and not infrequently beats them (it has struggled this year but the NTDP has one of its weakest teams ever this season). Conversely, the NTDP would be a non-playoff team in the OHL.

You do a disservice to the point you are trying to make that NCAA is a higher level of competition by repeatedly making this factually unsupported statement.

This season NTDP is 2-14 vs NCAA D1 and D3 teams who dress their scratches and backup goalies.

Is this factually supported enough for you

 

[Bjorn Le]

Your argument is so weak that you can’t even make a direct point.

NTDP beats college teams that often aren’t playing at full strength. They rest players and give the guys who are sitting in the press box ice time in these games.

And most definitely the NTDP in those good years when they are beating these NCAA teams at a competitive rate would make the OHL playoffs. They already are making the USHL Playoffs (or they themselves at least have the record to make it, disregarding what the U17’s are doing) in those years. Additionally, they basically kick the CHL All-Star teams ass these years at the World U18’s.

The guy who thinks there’s a conspiracy by the media to elevate undeserving Canadian prospects over the allegedly much superior U.S. prospects isn’t a credible voice for what is a weak argument or not.

You act as if the college teams don’t play any of their regulars in the exhibition games. Sometimes (but certainly not always) the stars from the college teams sit, but it’s not as if college rosters are big enough for more than a handful of non-injured players to sit. And even still—as U.S homers like yourself and Bigdog love to point out—even the 7th d-men and 13th forwards that the college teams more frequently play in exhibition games are still older, bigger, and more experienced than the U18 players on the NTDP.

But it’s a bit funny how size and experience matters a lot when y’all rave how much better the NCAA is than the CHL, but when it comes to the NTDP those arguments disappear. The NTDP has generally been a bottom third to middling USHL team since it begun play in 2009. Except 2017-2018 it has very rarely been one of the better teams in the league. It would not be competitive in the OHL.

 

[Timo Time]

So anyway, Sharks definitely go Schaefer (#1) > Misa (#2)

 

[Bjorn Le]

This season NTDP is 2-14 vs NCAA D1 and D3 teams who dress their scratches and backup goalies.

Is this factually supported enough for you

This season boasts one of if not the worst NTDP team ever excluding the very early years. Its record historically (when it still did not perform that well in the USHL) is better than that and even an NCAA scratch is still a “college” hockey player. Yet you think that no NCAA team would ever lose a game against an older, more skilled, and better experienced CHL team. If you could take those rose-coloured glasses off you would see how ludicrous your statement was.

 

[SarniaStingFan]

I don’t even know what you’re trying to argue.

Is it that the OHL is better than the NCAA? It most definitely is not. It’s frankly not even close.

The NCAA is on average four full years older. Start there, and you’ll realize that like Germany U22 would be better than Canada U18 for the simple fact of being two years older. Comes with being taller, stronger, more gritty, better defensively, and better with tactical aspects.

Is the overall skill and skating level of the best OHL players better? Yeah, maybe. I don’t think it’s a certainty, but the data you state suggests it’s a possibility. Then again, the average NCAA player is much better because they are older. Simple as that. These aren’t remotely comparable leagues.

There are plenty of OHL players who will never be close to good enough for NCAA hockey. Look at all the OHL players committing to play NCAA (and pretty much none of them at the top schools). These are all decent OHL players. None of these guys are the 11th forward or 5th defenseman. Every single NCAA player is good enough to play OHL.

So because they have zero draft picks it means they have 0 NHL prospects? Being a draft pick doesn’t even make you an NHL prospect. Plenty of dudes drafted 6th or 7th round don’t play pro hockey. If you think UMass Lowell doesn’t have any future pro hockey players (and NHL prospects) because there’s no NHL team logo next to their name, I don’t know what to tell you. UMass Lowell rarely attracts drafted NHL players. If they can become 10th in the country though, they must be doing something right to be beating these teams with players who have NHL logos next to their name on EP.

This was to show you there's lots of talent in the OHL not just "cooks and cleaners" as you constantly like to say.

I understand that NCAA teams would beat OHL teams. The USports All-Stars beat Canada at the World Junior Selection Camp for the same reasons you mentioned.

I never said that UMass-Lowell's players wouldn't become pro players. But if you're making a comparison of their opponents at this moment, you can't call them NHL prospects if they're literally not NHL prospects

 

[SarniaStingFan]

I am not sure I understand what you are arguing? Do you think Hagens would have better or worse numbers in the OHL than he does in the NCAA?

Answer: He would have more than double the amount of points in the OHL, and would probably create bad habits that come with playing against 16 year old kids.

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear in my original post. This was simply in response to the constant "cooks and cleaners" narrative that I see him post every time this discussion gets brought up. All I'm saying is there's lots of talent in the OHL.

You're allowed to say that both leagues are good and have an honest debate about the reasons why each player should be picked 1st overall

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The guy who thinks there’s a conspiracy by the media to elevate undeserving Canadian prospects over the allegedly much superior U.S. prospects isn’t a credible voice for what is a weak argument or not.

You act as if the college teams don’t play any of their regulars in the exhibition games. Sometimes (but certainly not always) the stars from the college teams sit, but it’s not as if college rosters are big enough for more than a handful of non-injured players to sit. And even still—as U.S homers like yourself and Bigdog love to point out—even the 7th d-men and 13th forwards that the college teams more frequently play in exhibition games are still older, bigger, and more experienced than the U18 players on the NTDP.

But it’s a bit funny how size and experience matters a lot when y’all rave how much better the NCAA is than the CHL, but when it comes to the NTDP those arguments disappear. The NTDP has generally been a bottom third to middling USHL team since it begun play in 2009. Except 2017-2018 it has very rarely been one of the better teams in the league. It would not be competitive in the OHL.

I don’t need lectures on objectivity from people who show no objectivity in all their posts. I’ve never once seen you criticize the CHL or compliment the NCAA/USHL. You are a Canadian homer. At least admit it, and stop throwing stones from a glass house.

There’s literally no argument the CHL is better than the NCAA, and if you were objective you’d admit it rather than a circular argument.

 

[bigdog16]

Sorry, I didn't make myself very clear in my original post. This was simply in response to the constant "cooks and cleaners" narrative that I see him post every time this discussion gets brought up. All I'm saying is there's lots of talent in the OHL.

You're allowed to say that both leagues are good and have an honest debate about the reasons why each player should be picked 1st overall

I agree there is a plethora of talent in both leagues

It bothers me when I see an 18 year old kid put up over a PPG in the NCAA and its frowned upon. When in reality he would score 2+ ppg in the CHL. Simply put, its a far more difficult level of play

 

[FlyguyOX]

Really curious what flyers would do with 1st pick.

C is obviously the largest need, but a 1D is probably the 2nd biggest need, albeit a RHD over a LHD.

Sanheim actually likes to play RHD as a lefty so the handedness of Schaefer could be a nothingburger.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

Really curious what flyers would do with 1st pick.

C is obviously the largest need, but a 1D is probably the 2nd biggest need, albeit a RHD over a LHD.

...Habs are in the same boat; it wouldn't surprise me at all that if Hughes gets #1, he trades it for the #2 pick and a 2nd or so, obviously with Misa in mind...