1999-2000 Pronger, last Dman to win the HART- Can Quinn Hughes end the Dman Hart drought this year

Regal

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
26,507
16,408
Vancouver
The whole premise was what Hughes does without his own superstar forwards and against the other teams best. Maybe the Rangers and Avalanche aren’t using their guys as wise as they could.

I’m simply pointing out the difference between he, Fox, and Makar. If you want to get butthurt about it, then ok, but it is a fact that Hughes received more o zone starts without his superstars while the other two decreased over the years. Why is that? That is for us to try to come to a consensus on. If you think they don’t matter, then ok. I think they do.

The original poster who has a Hughes/Makar obsession was pointing specifically to corsi and fenwick and I think we can all agree, and your link backs it up, that those advanced stats are skewed because of o zone starts. Hughes receives a good amount more o zone starts than his competition without the higher end forwards on the ice.

This is coaching brilliance. Use your player where he succeeds the most. I’d credit Tocchet more than get upset about it.

I’m not butthurt about anything. I was pointing out that your original comments that “his coach doesn’t trust him with defensive zone starts without one of his stars on the ice” and “his zone starts go up away from his superstars” were both wrong. Perhaps you phrased what you were getting at poorly, but taken as they were said, I was showing that neither is the case. I’m glad we’ve moved on from that to address your real point about his zone starts going up last year in relation to Makar and Fox.

These are Hughes’ zone starts without Miller and Pettersson on the ice last year:

136 offensive zone starts
128 neutral zone starts
105 defensive zone starts

So he had 241 non-neutral zone faceoffs and a 56.4% offensive zone start percentage

Without Miller and Pettersson on the ice for both 21-22 and 22-23 seasons combined, he had a 47.1% offensive zone start percentage.

This means if Hughes had the same offensive zone start percentage without them last year that he had without them the two years prior, he would have had:

114 offensive zone starts
127 defensive zone starts

So we’re talking about 22 extra offensive zone starts.

Essentially, you believe that 1 extra offensive zone start every 4 games significantly impacted Hughes’ possession numbers. This is very hard to believe and why zone starts aren’t considered to have much of an effect overall on possession numbers or production. The link I gave doesn’t “back you up” here. It suggests that while there is a large difference between individual offensive or defensive zone starts, that overall, because the bulk of a players starts are on the fly or in the neutral zone, that the vast majority of players need minimal adjustment in their possession numbers. This is what they say:

IMG_8197.jpeg


So Hughes had a slight advantage here but not enough to suggest the zone starts are even close to the reason for his numbers being so high.
 

Bizzare

Registered User
May 5, 2013
2,325
1,914
If you are going to fling around something like this, I would expect you to have some evidence to back it up
I’m not going to go through posts from years ago, majority of people that were around back then would know my statement is accurate.
 

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