1999-00 Hart Trophy Revisit

[Felidae]

Yet again another very close Hart Race that Jagr lost out on, but this time to Pronger, the obly defenseman outside Orr to win the Hart trophy in the last 80 years. He had 18 1st place votes to Pronger's 25. Bure also wasn't too far behind with 11.

Some stats.

Jagr

- Won The Art Ross missing 13 games. If I'm not mistaken, this is the 2nd most games an Art Ross Winner has missed, right behind Lemieux.


- on a per game basis he basolutely dominated his competition. 1.53 PPG, 125 points in 82. 2nd best in the league paced for 110 points, 10th best paced for 86 points. Of course pace is never guaranteed to be maintained.. but given his pace is right in line with his 7 best seasons, I certainly would have bet on him doing so.


Pronger

not as much stats on defenseman, but he did lead the league in +/- with a +52, 2nd best on the team had a +34. Was 2nd in points among defenseman, 5th in SH TOI and 6th in overall TOI. Overall an incredible season on both ends of the ice.



Bure

- dominated the goalscoring race, 14 more goals than 2nd and 22 more goals than 10th best despite missing 8 games (must be up there for most missed games to lead the league in goals).


- least support of any of the finalists. 23 more points than 2nd best on team. 29 more goals than 2nd best on team



So should Jagr or Bure have won, or was Pronger the rightful winner? Maybe someone else? Discuss.

Click to read more...

 

[The Panther]

Jagr

- Won The Art Ross missing 13 games. If I'm not mistaken, this is the 2nd most games an Art Ross Winner has missed, right behind Lemieux.

People often bring these kinds of stats up, but I don't think there's extra credit for missing games. I'm more impressed by guys who actually played most/all the games and won the Art Ross in record fashion.

Like that Gretzky guy:
1981-82: could have missed 24 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1982-83: could have missed 29 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1983-84: could have missed 38 games (!) and still would have won the Art Ross
1984-85: could have missed 32 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1985-86: could have missed 27 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1986-87: could have missed 35 games and still would have won the Art Ross
(Also Lemieux could have won the 1988-89 Art Ross by missing 18 games.)

- on a per game basis he basolutely dominated his competition. 1.53 PPG, 125 points in 82. 2nd best in the league paced for 110 points, 10th best paced for 86 points. Of course pace is never guaranteed to be maintained.. but given his pace is right in line with his 7 best seasons, I certainly would have bet on him doing so.

I also don't doubt that Jagr would have kept up the pace and also I think Jagr was the best player in the world that particular season. But scoring 'pace' and how good you are in vaccuum are both irrelevant to the Hart trophy.

I would say Pronger was the correct winner... even though there's a caveat that, as you point out, NHL voters had generally ignored defencemen for the Hart for many decades. So, it begs the question why they suddenly jumped onto this season's top D? I guess there just weren't enough forward candidates, with Jagr missing too many games.

Bure certainly deserved some votes, too, but as St. Louis was the League's best team (16 points better than Florida), I think Pronger deserved to win.

St. Louis won by defence, and Pronger was their best defenceman, and easily their top offensive defenceman, too.

 

[buffalowing88]

I love Pronger but this was not his finest year. I think that media narrative pushed towards a a guy on defense. Pronger was amazing but I would say that any year between 05-09 is better, IMO.

Jagr gets my vote. He dragged that team into the playoffs and was the epitome of a guy who was being held back by the DPE.

 

[Regal]

The Blues were the President’s Trophy winners and at the time had set the record for fewest goals against since the league went to 80 games with Roman Turek in net. Pronger was the linchpin to that while also being the second highest scoring blueliner. Jagr was the best player but the Pens were barely above .500 and he missed time. I don’t really have strong feelings either way here. I think Pronger or Jagr would have been fine choices. I know a lot is made of Pronger being the only defenseman since Orr to win, but it was also a weird season where there wasn’t really a standout forward other than Jagr (Bure had the big goal season but also a lot of flack for his defense), but also not a standout goalie. The only thing weird is that they propped up Pronger, but Lidstrom ended up so far back. As good as he was still, it’s a bit ridiculous Yzerman was getting more Hart votes than Lidstrom at the time.

 

[Felidae]

Jagr gets my vote. He dragged that team into the playoffs and was the epitome of a guy who was being held back by the DPE.

I don't know, i feel like if anyone's game was perfect for the DPE, it was Jagr.

 

[Matsun]

People often bring these kinds of stats up, but I don't think there's extra credit for missing games. I'm more impressed by guys who actually played most/all the games and won the Art Ross in record fashion.

Like that Gretzky guy:
1981-82: could have missed 24 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1982-83: could have missed 29 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1983-84: could have missed 38 games (!) and still would have won the Art Ross
1984-85: could have missed 32 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1985-86: could have missed 27 games and still would have won the Art Ross
1986-87: could have missed 35 games and still would have won the Art Ross
(Also Lemieux could have won the 1988-89 Art Ross by missing 18 games.)

I also don't doubt that Jagr would have kept up the pace and also I think Jagr was the best player in the world that particular season. But scoring 'pace' and how good you are in vaccuum are both irrelevant to the Hart trophy.

I would say Pronger was the correct winner... even though there's a caveat that, as you point out, NHL voters had generally ignored defencemen for the Hart for many decades. So, it begs the question why they suddenly jumped onto this season's top D? I guess there just weren't enough forward candidates, with Jagr missing too many games.

Bure certainly deserved some votes, too, but as St. Louis was the League's best team (16 points better than Florida), I think Pronger deserved to win.

St. Louis won by defence, and Pronger was their best defenceman, and easily their top offensive defenceman, too.

I agree with what you are saying and also vote for Pronger. I think Jagrs dominance in his peak is fantastic and he actually won the Art Ross with 21 games left in this season. I went and looked how many games players needed to win the Art Ross to see how good this really is:

-------- 70 game seasons--------
50-51 Howe game 57.
51-52 Howe game 59.
52-53 Howe game 51. Lindsey ended up #2 by game 60. Howe wins in 46 without Lindsey.
53-54 Howe game 60.
54-55 Geoffrion game 69.
55-56 Beliveau game 64. Howe ended up #2 by game 63. Beliveau wins in 58 without Howe.
56-57 Howe game 69.
57-58 Moore game 68.
58-59 Moore game 67.
59-60 Hull game 70.
60-61 Geoffrion game 61. Beliveau ended up #2 by game 65. Geoffrion wins in 57 without Beliveau.
61-62 Hull game 70.
62-63 Howe game 68.
63-64 Mikita game 69. Hull ended up #2 by game 65. Mikita wins in 63 without Hull.
64-65 Mikita game 65.
65-66 Hull game 49.
66-67 Mikita game 56. Hull ended up #2 by game 60. Mikita wins in 47 (!) without Hull.
67-68 Mikita game 70 (of 74).
-------- 76 game seasons--------
68-69 Esposito game 64.
69-70 Orr game 67. Esposito ended up as #2 by game 69. Orr wins in 56 without Esposito.
-------- 78 game seasons--------
70-71 Esposito game 71. Orr ended up as #2 by game 66. Esposito wins in 61 without Orr.
71-72 Esposito game 65. Orr ended up as #2 by game 71. Esposito wins in 63 without Orr. (Rattelle was straight up leading near the end of Februari when he went down!)
72-73 Esposito game 68.
73-74 Esposito game 64. Orr ended up as #2 by game 65. Esposito wins in 56 without Orr.
-------- 80 game seasons--------
74-75 Orr game 73.
75-76 Lafleur game 78.
76-77 Lafleur game 73. Dionne ended up as #2 by game 70. Lafleur wins in 66 games without Dionne.
77-78 Lafleur game 70
78-79 Trottier game 75
79-80 Dionne game 80
80-81 Gretzky game 71
81-82 Gretzky game 56
82-83 Gretzky game 51
83-84 Gretzky game 42
84-85 Gretzky game 48
85-86 Gretzky game 53
86-87 Gretzky game 45
87-88 Lemieux game 71. Lemieux wins in 63 games without Gretzky.
88-89 Lemieux game 62. Lemieux wins in 59 games without Gretzky, and 42 games without all 3 150 point players.
89-90 Gretzky game 68
90-91 Gretzky game 65
91-92 Lemieux game 61
92-93 Lemieux game 56
93-94 Gretzky game 74
94-95 Jagr game 48 (of 48)
-------- 82 game seasons--------
95-96 Lemieux game 64, Jagr ended up as #2 by game 63. Lemieux wins in 51 games without Jagr.
96-97 Lemieux game 68
97-98 Jagr game 68
98-99 Jagr game 70
99-00 Jagr game 61
00-01 Jagr game 81, Sakic ended up as #2 by game 69. Jagr wins in 68 games without Sakic
01-02 Iginla game 77
02-03 Forsberg game 75
03-04 St.Louis game 77
05-06 Thornton game 80, Jagr ended up as #2 by game 71. Thornton wins in 73 games without Jagr.
06-07 Crosby game 75
07-08 Ovechkin game 76
08-09 Malkin game 81
09-10 H.Sedin game 80
10-11 D.Sedin game 78
11-12 Malkin game 69
12-13 St.Louis game 54 (of 56)
13-14 Crosby game 65
14-15 Benn game 82
15-16 Kane game 71
16-17 McDavid game 77
17-18 McDavid game 77
18-19 Kucherov game 71
19-20 Draisaitl game 61 (of 71)
20-21 McDavid game 49 (of 56)
21-22 McDavid game 77
22-23 McDavid game 68
23-24 Kucherov game 78

Jagr looks insane when you look at it like this. In the 2000s we've only seen 3 seasons were the Art Ross was already won with 12 games remaining in the season. Jagr nearly did it 4 times in a row.

 

[JackSlater]

Pronger was the right winner, Bure should have been second, probably Jagr third. Jagr was the best player in the NHL that year, but the Hart is not the best player trophy regardless of whether anyone wants it to be. The Hart is explicitly about value, and Jagr missed 19 games, nearly 25% of the season. He missed too many games without having a peak Orr type season to compensate, though he's just the next level below that. Bure is a weird case. Probably the most one way player you can imagine, but there not all that much to play with on Florida anyway so I don't know that it matters as much as it would in normal circumstances. That Florida was a fairly shallow team also means that Bure was more valuable to them. Hurts that he missed ~10% of the season. It was unfairly held against Jagr and Bure that no one scored 100 points that year.

Pronger had a bit of an outlier season for him that year, at least offensively. I've heard Pronger even mention that it was an outlier in that he often played with the third line and those guys seemed to score better than usual. MacInnis missed some time and wasn't quite at his best that year, so Pronger carried a heavy load. Pronger was likely the best defensive player in the NHL that year and was possibly number two offensively among defencemen, or close to it. St. Louis had a talented team, but other top players missed time and Pronger was the player whom the team was built around as St. Louis had a pretty dominant season. I think I remember that St. Louis more than doubled the opposition that year when Pronger was on the ice at even strength, and that's not playing with the top forwards most of the time. He also only missed three game. Jagr was the best player, Pronger the most valuable because he played significantly more.

I love Pronger but this was not his finest year. I think that media narrative pushed towards a a guy on defense. Pronger was amazing but I would say that any year between 05-09 is better, IMO.

Jagr gets my vote. He dragged that team into the playoffs and was the epitome of a guy who was being held back by the DPE.

I agree that there was a narrative push, mainly because no forward scored 100 points. Everyone was aware that Jagr would have won it, as the voting clearly conveys, if he'd played just a few more games. Definitely disagree that any Pronger season from that range is better than 2000, not even remotely close. Pronger's 2007 season is up there if he didn't miss some time, 2006 had flashes but he broke his foot, 2008 and 2009 are not really close to 2000.

The Blues were the President’s Trophy winners and at the time had set the record for fewest goals against since the league went to 80 games with Roman Turek in net. Pronger was the linchpin to that while also being the second highest scoring blueliner. Jagr was the best player but the Pens were barely above .500 and he missed time. I don’t really have strong feelings either way here. I think Pronger or Jagr would have been fine choices. I know a lot is made of Pronger being the only defenseman since Orr to win, but it was also a weird season where there wasn’t really a standout forward other than Jagr (Bure had the big goal season but also a lot of flack for his defense), but also not a standout goalie. The only thing weird is that they propped up Pronger, but Lidstrom ended up so far back. As good as he was still, it’s a bit ridiculous Yzerman was getting more Hart votes than Lidstrom at the time.

It's not ridiculous at all that Yzerman got marginally more Hart votes in that specific season. Yzerman was better than Lidstrom was at even strength that year, Lidstrom was better on special teams. Maybe you can make a positional argument for Lidstrom being more valuable but Detroit was deep at forward and on defence, and Fedorov missed a bit of time that year. It's defensible either way.

 

[VanIslander]

Psst...

This may come as news to you youngums, but both Bure & Jagr were booed in sports bars incessantly when they were without the puck. They were roasted ... defensively bad, heck writ TERRIBLE! They simply didn't backcheck. They just prepped for another rush.

Pronger was so often tip of the cap great away from the puck.

He was a force. On a team with Belfour and MacInnis he stood out - as a gear above

 

[VanIslander]

Guys like Gretzky, Yzerman, Hasek, Pronger, Ovechkin, McDavid popped off the screen.

You point speechlessly.

 

[The Panther]

Pronger was an awesome player. My only problem with him was his hair. Nice boy-band locks when he was 19-20 in Hartford. But by the time he was in his early 30s, he was slicking back his receding hair, emphasizing what was left of the hairline that was losing a battle with encroaching forehead flesh. It's just not a good look.

He went from early-90s' David Spade hair to early-90s-Chris-Farley-as-Matt-Foley and then even beyond that.

 

[VanIslander]

He was such a jerk, though.