1997 Rangers - a good indicator of what the Oilers core could have done if not broken up?

[Crosby2010]

See my issue with the idea of the Oilers contending for more than 1 cup is this:

Even if we pretend the laws of financial gravity no longer apply and all of the oilers core players stay, are happy and motivated to keep winning, and money is no object, pittsburgh, calgary, and later detroit/chicago/vancouver still exist and are coming hard for future seasons

If Gretzky stays, they beat Calgary in a 7 game war in 1989 similar to what happened in 1991 in our timeline, there is no way the Flames just fade away for 1990. The flames organization will correctly recognize that winning a cup is vital for the clubs long term survival and reload with as many upgrades as possible. As it is Im not sure a complete 1988 Oilers roster could have survived the 1989 Flames.

And that cycle will repeat with the Penguins, the Blackhawks peaking for 1991/92, eventually the Red Wings. Where exactly can you see more than 2 winnable cups in the 1989-1997 window for the 80s Oilers? If they win in 1989, theyll be relatively gassed after 3 straight cups to deal with Calgary the next year, and if they say win a 1991 final against the penguins, I think its pretty likely the Pens use that experience to win the next one.

I think they win again in 1989, and I do realize the Flames would not be an easy out, but this is still a Gretzky-Oilers team. They had just thrashed the Flames in a sweep in 1988. The Flames would be even hungrier in 1990, and again this wouldn't be easy, but let's keep in mind that Gretzky and the Kings beat the Flames in 1990. I don't know what else they do to be honest. No one knows for sure, but they would be perennial contenders well into the mid 1990s at least. If that is the case I don't know how they can't squeeze more than just the 1989 and 1990 Cups out. Mario and the Pens eventually figure it out, Roy never wins in 1993 and the Rangers never win in 1994 because there is no Messier/Oilers core there. The game doesn't tighten up and the Devils never win in 1995 either. Basically you can argue the dead puck era is either delayed or never happens, and this only benefits the Oilers. I am not saying they go 8 in a row like the 1960s Celtics, but could they win 5 in a row up until 1991? Yeah sure. And like the Golden State Warriors who won in 2022 I think there would be that extra Cup they win that isn't a shock but is one of those "They still got another one in them" type of championship that surprises no one. If I had to guess, 4 more Cups for Gretzky (1989, 1990, 1991 and maybe 1994?) Messier wins 8 overall too. They are still decent post 1994 but this is when it starts to fade a little, at least for their standards. And another thing we have to ask, does Gretzky still get run over by Suter in 1991 in this alternate reality? Because that changes a lot!

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I don't know, that defense doesn't look too bad to me. Between 1992 and 1995, each of those guys contributed to a finals run on a non Oilers team. And in a similar spot on the depth chart too

Coffey was a #1 on Detroit in 1995
Smith was a #3 on Chicago in 1992
Beukeboom was a #3 on NYR in 1994
Lowe was a #4 on NYR in 1994
Huddy was a #5 on LA in 1993

And Muni was a kind of "embarrassment of riches on the 3rd pairing" kind of guy who was low key one of the best pure defenders in the league.

This would not be the NHL's best defense corps from 1992-1995, but I don't think it would be an Achilles heel for the Oilers or ruin their chances.

so muni and huddy would be your bottom pair right? i think in 92 that’s very good. i remember huddy being still very good when the canucks faced him in the 93 playoffs

by 95… i think muni and huddy probably would have been the bottom pair on the 95 sabres team that lost in five to a phily team that played without lindros for the first three games in the first round.

that said, smith/coffey and lowe/beukeboom is a really good top four through the first half of the decade. maybe for fit, you’d prefer smith with beukeboom to spread the puck moving around. in either event both guys are at their peaks in those years. older lowe is the weak link but still a credible number four babysitting young zubov in 94.

 

[Hobnobs]

Couple things that would have been interesting is that Oilers drafting was horrific, especially on defense, so I think with all those playoff runs, their "D" would have been pretty beat up and tired. Remember, they made the long playoff runs from 1983-1993. Look at what they would have to work with in the 1990's

1.Coffey
2. Lowe
3. Huddy
4. Buekeboom
5. Steve Smith
6. Craig Muni
7. Geoff Smith
8. a young Chris Joseph

***zero defense prospects in the system either***


With the explosion of salaries, and winning multiple cups, would the Oilers be able to afford other teams throwing money at those stars? There's no way the Rangers (who had a cup drought), or the Red Wings would have sat on their hands and not try to make offers.


The brutality of the NHL was also in full force during the 1990's too, so don't think there wouldn't be more injuries etc. Plus the "trap" in 1994, and the Red Wings of 1995 got cooked by them, I'm sure the older oilers would have had trouble with it.

By the time of the Gretzky trade Beukeboom was like 23 and Smith was 25. Not sure why you list Joseph as a young defenseman while not doing it for Geoff Smith? They were born in the same year. Basically they have a good defense with a good mix of young and old players all of them great to good at what they do. I dont see any real problems there.

The money thing I agree with but the premise of the thread is that they are a rich team able to keep Gretzky so I'm guessing they have the money.

The trap? All of those players played succesfully within or against the trap except Huddy. And the OP wrote Oilers would stay relevant up to 98 which is a pretty fair assessment considering the players in question on the Oilers as most of the Oilers forward core were slowing down around 96ish.

 

[connellc]

By the time of the Gretzky trade Beukeboom was like 23 and Smith was 25. Not sure why you list Joseph as a young defenseman while not doing it for Geoff Smith? They were born in the same year. Basically they have a good defense with a good mix of young and old players all of them great to good at what they do. I dont see any real problems there.

The money thing I agree with but the premise of the thread is that they are a rich team able to keep Gretzky so I'm guessing they have the money.

The trap? All of those players played succesfully within or against the trap except Huddy. And the OP wrote Oilers would stay relevant up to 98 which is a pretty fair assessment considering the players in question on the Oilers as most of the Oilers forward core were slowing down around 96ish.

Fatigue would be a major issue with the defense in my books. A ton of playoff hockey being played from 1983 onward will take its tool on the defense being pounded in a rough era. I personally think that they fall apart, but who knows.