17-18 season

[WxIxNxGxSxFxAxNx26]

So i was curious if the new arena is something that management is/can use to lure free agents in?

Does it mean anything to the players? When i played i always appreciated going into a nice barn.

Just curious what my fellow wings fans thought.

Click to read more...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

So i was curious if the new arena is something that management is/can use to lure free agents in?

Does it mean anything to the players? When i played i always appreciated going into a nice barn.

Just curious what my fellow wings fans thought.

It will be a lure for them based on the fact that it helps to ensure the Wings will remain a cap team no matter what, even when Mike Illitch passes away.

That will literally be the extent of the stadium's drawing power to FAs.

Stuff like Mrazek being an elite goalie to help them be a contender, Svechnikov being something special, and Mantha developing to play in the NHL like he did in the minors will have way more pull on a FA

 

[sean3250]

Nobody's going to want to play for a team that is about to fall off the proverbial cliff. In 17-18 D,Z, and Kronwall are all done being effective players. Detroit is screwed big time when that happens. Free agents worth a damn aren't looking to play for basement dwellers...

 

[Mort Divine]

Nobody's going to want to play for a team that is about to fall off the proverbial cliff. In 17-18 D,Z, and Kronwall are all done being effective players. Detroit is screwed big time when that happens. Free agents worth a damn aren't looking to play for basement dwellers...

We aren't screwed when that happens...

We have a strong core of young players who will transition us into the post-PZK era just fine. Will it be perfectly smooth? No. It will be alright though. The world isn't ending anytime soon for us.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Nobody's going to want to play for a team that is about to fall off the proverbial cliff. In 17-18 D,Z, and Kronwall are all done being effective players. Detroit is screwed big time when that happens. Free agents worth a damn aren't looking to play for basement dwellers...

Um... Datsyuk and Z have missed huge chunks of the last couple years. Z was, by any standards, a pile of crap in the second half of the year:

I know they're exceptional players but the team isn't just going to die without them. They've lost better players and been the best team in the league after.

Detroit will be screwed big time if not one of the young players develops anymore than they have. If Tatar, Nyquist, DDK, Abby, Ouellet, Mantha, Svechnikov, Larkin, etc don't continue to improve, they're in trouble.

The Wings would be falling off the proverbial cliff if Datsyuk and Zetterberg retired a year or two ago, not if they retire a year or two from now

 

[sean3250]

Um... Datsyuk and Z have missed huge chunks of the last couple years. Z was, by any standards, a pile of crap in the second half of the year:

I know they're exceptional players but the team isn't just going to die without them. They've lost better players and been the best team in the league after.

Detroit will be screwed big time if not one of the young players develops anymore than they have. If Tatar, Nyquist, DDK, Abby, Ouellet, Mantha, Svechnikov, Larkin, etc don't continue to improve, they're in trouble.

The Wings would be falling off the proverbial cliff if Datsyuk and Zetterberg retired a year or two ago, not if they retire a year or two from now

Zetterberg had 22 points in 30 games after the All Star Break, while still playing the toughest matchups at ES. I wouldn't call his play a pile of crap tbh. They've both missed time, but they are both the best players on this team by far.

Your right, Detroit has lost HOFers before. Luckily, we had another set of HOFers to replace them with. Detroit doesn't get to hit the lottery three times in a row in those regards. The last HOFer we lost (Lidstrom) can never be replaced. Datsyuk is a once in a generation player. Leaders like Stevie Y and Zetterberg don't come around often.

Nyquist is 26. Doubt he gets much better. Tatar is 25, same goes for him. They soon both will not have the luxury of playing next to D and Z respectively, which helps boost their stats. Lets see how they do when they are teams only focuses of attention.

DDK is a good young dman. Detroit will be lucky if he tops out as a #2. He is not a future #1.

Abby is a one hit wonder who had a career year last year after playing next to elite players in D and Z for years. He is a 3rd liner who should not be overvalued especially this coming off season.

Ouellet has struggled at times in GR. Didn't really stand out when he was in Detroit either (small sample size I know). He's small and he's actually a pretty bad skater, which I think is a major thing holding him back. Most likely a bottom 4 dman in the NHL.

Svech is a complete wild card.

Larkin is promising, but most don't expect more than a 50-65 point two way Center. Isn't that what Zetterberg is right now (60-65 point two way Center)?

Like I said, the future has a few bright spots (Larkin, Mrazek) but the future sure isn't looking that amazing. Detroit got lucky going from Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan etc to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. If I'm a betting man, I sure as hell am not betting that the Wings strike gold yet again. The luck is going to run out eventually. It always does.

 

[Henkka]

Dylan Larkin is the reason why the UFAs will come.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Dylan Larkin is the reason why the UFAs will come.

I thought that was supposed to be Dan Cleary's job?

To answer the OP's question. I don't think it will help if the Wings aren't a good team.

 

[sarcastro]

You can't build a good NHL team via free agency anymore. Hardly any free agents worth signing ever reach the open market, and when they do they are overpriced. You can splurge on one or two guys to put you over the top, but the majority of your team has to be built from within.

That means the 17-18 team will be built around the veterans that will still be under contract (barring a career ending injury). That's Z, Kronwall, Green, and Ericsson. Possibly Datsyuk if he's still up for it. The team's engine will be Mrazek, Nyquist, Larkin, DeKeyser, and hopefully top six performers in Mantha and Sheahan. Tatar, if he's extended. Ditto for Helm and Abby with Abby being more likely, though I wouldn't hold my breath on either. Roster filled out with guys like Glendening, AA, Ouellet, and some of the other young guys in GR. I would be shocked if Svechy is ready to start the 17-18 season on the big club.

Otherwise you'll have a depth player, backup goalie, etc signed here or there to fill things out. On the off chance a franchise player hits the open market and the Wings make a run at him, I doubt the new arena will make much difference. It will come down to where the guy's wife grew up, where he went to college, how pitiful the Canadian dollar is running, etc.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Zetterberg had 22 points in 30 games after the All Star Break, while still playing the toughest matchups at ES. I wouldn't call his play a pile of crap tbh. They've both missed time, but they are both the best players on this team by far.

Your right, Detroit has lost HOFers before. Luckily, we had another set of HOFers to replace them with. Detroit doesn't get to hit the lottery three times in a row in those regards. The last HOFer we lost (Lidstrom) can never be replaced. Datsyuk is a once in a generation player. Leaders like Stevie Y and Zetterberg don't come around often.

Nyquist is 26. Doubt he gets much better. Tatar is 25, same goes for him. They soon both will not have the luxury of playing next to D and Z respectively, which helps boost their stats. Lets see how they do when they are teams only focuses of attention.

DDK is a good young dman. Detroit will be lucky if he tops out as a #2. He is not a future #1.

Abby is a one hit wonder who had a career year last year after playing next to elite players in D and Z for years. He is a 3rd liner who should not be overvalued especially this coming off season.

Ouellet has struggled at times in GR. Didn't really stand out when he was in Detroit either (small sample size I know). He's small and he's actually a pretty bad skater, which I think is a major thing holding him back. Most likely a bottom 4 dman in the NHL.

Svech is a complete wild card.

Larkin is promising, but most don't expect more than a 50-65 point two way Center. Isn't that what Zetterberg is right now (60-65 point two way Center)?

Like I said, the future has a few bright spots (Larkin, Mrazek) but the future sure isn't looking that amazing. Detroit got lucky going from Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan etc to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. If I'm a betting man, I sure as hell am not betting that the Wings strike gold yet again. The luck is going to run out eventually. It always does.

So what? If the future is as bleak as some posters, such as you, think it is, we will just get some top 10 draft picks and hopefully pick out 1 or 2 star players and we will be back in the playoffs.

The future was uncertain in 1995, it was uncertain in 2005 and it's uncertain in 2015. If you think people knew in 95 that Lids was a future HOFer, that in 2005 (or earlier) people knew Dats/Z were future HOFers, or if you think you know that Larkin/Mantha/Mrazek/Svechnikov/unknown can't become HOFers, you are mistaken. Everything looks easy in retrospect, and a Stanley Cup can erase a lot of the 'bad' that teams go through, i.e. the doubts, the scepticism, the disappointments.. a lot of the stuff we're going through now. If we win a cup in the next 5-ish years, Holland will look like a genius.. if we don't, well, I think we're at least building a team good enough to be competitive.

 

[Henkka]

I've always laughed for these comments that how everybody predicts our downfall. And how then the end of the world happens. Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Kronwall are gone and That's it. End of the World. No more Red Wings in existence.

Then we finally get a high draft pick! To hunt a new TOP6 center or Norris-caliber defenceman. Everything else is already drafted because of great depth drafting our machine is doing all the time and then we just rebound instantly on the top in few years.

Open your eyes god damned.

 

[Claypool]

Free agents worth signing don't exist anymore.

 

[Bench]

Free agents worth signing don't exist anymore.

♫And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad♫

 

[sean3250]

Free agents worth signing don't exist anymore.

I bet you don't think good, young players get traded anymore either right?

 

[Bench]

Also... Mike Green?

I mean, Green is a great free agent pickup. A high octane offensive defender who still has lots of good years of hockey left. He also specifically targeted signing in Detroit because of the culture of the club.

 

[RabidBadger]

Montreal was trending toward terrible when they got the Bell Centre; fa's avoided them like the plague. T'ranna still got a revolving door of FA's when the Air Canada Center opened despite being sub-mediocre because they threw stupid money at them. In either case I don't think the arena factored in and it likely won't here.

 

[Claypool]

http://archive.kare11.com/images/640/360/2/assetpool/images/120709035400_zach_parise_ryan_suter.jpg[IMG]

[SIZE="3"][I]♫And I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad♫[/I][/SIZE][/QUOTE]

Using an example from 2012 isn't helping your argument. A defensemen like Suter will never, ever hit free agency anymore.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Zetterberg had 22 points in 30 games after the All Star Break, while still playing the toughest matchups at ES. I wouldn't call his play a pile of crap tbh. They've both missed time, but they are both the best players on this team by far.

Your right, Detroit has lost HOFers before. Luckily, we had another set of HOFers to replace them with. Detroit doesn't get to hit the lottery three times in a row in those regards. The last HOFer we lost (Lidstrom) can never be replaced. Datsyuk is a once in a generation player. Leaders like Stevie Y and Zetterberg don't come around often.

Nyquist is 26. Doubt he gets much better. Tatar is 25, same goes for him. They soon both will not have the luxury of playing next to D and Z respectively, which helps boost their stats. Lets see how they do when they are teams only focuses of attention.

DDK is a good young dman. Detroit will be lucky if he tops out as a #2. He is not a future #1.

Abby is a one hit wonder who had a career year last year after playing next to elite players in D and Z for years. He is a 3rd liner who should not be overvalued especially this coming off season.

Ouellet has struggled at times in GR. Didn't really stand out when he was in Detroit either (small sample size I know). He's small and he's actually a pretty bad skater, which I think is a major thing holding him back. Most likely a bottom 4 dman in the NHL.

Svech is a complete wild card.

Larkin is promising, but most don't expect more than a 50-65 point two way Center. Isn't that what Zetterberg is right now (60-65 point two way Center)?

Like I said, the future has a few bright spots (Larkin, Mrazek) but the future sure isn't looking that amazing. Detroit got lucky going from Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan etc to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. If I'm a betting man, I sure as hell am not betting that the Wings strike gold yet again. The luck is going to run out eventually. It always does.

The stats Nyquist and Tatar will be the exact same, or a bit better, due to them getting way more ice time. Not really a big deal.

Yep, But hes a fantastic 2nd pairing defender as it is right now.

Yep, His point production will be replaced by the depth we will have though.

when I saw him he looked good. at worst he's gonna be a good stay at home dman

So is every prospect in the nhl ever.

a 65 point center in this league right now is amazing.

I think you're being 2 much of a debbie downer , look what an elite goalie can do to a team in the nhl.

Carey Price, His dcore besides Subban is weak. Yet they're contenders if they didn't turtle every game and had alittle bit of ofence, I can name more.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Using an example from 2012 isn't helping your argument. A defensemen like Suter will never, ever hit free agency anymore.

who knows, Maybe a Dman like Ekblad doesn't like the team Florida will relocate 2.

 

[sarcastro]

Also... Mike Green?

I mean, Green is a great free agent pickup. A high octane offensive defender who still has lots of good years of hockey left. He also specifically targeted signing in Detroit because of the culture of the club.

Mike Green said he targeted the Wings because of culture, but let's not be naive. Green is a smart guy who realized that with the cap situation going on league wide, there would be fewer free agent dollars and lots of players fighting over them.

Green targeted a team with money to spend and a glaring need for a player with his exact skill set, and he made an aggressive sale to nab himself a lot of dollars with a short enough term where he can still try to cash in once more on the back end of his career.

IMO, and this is purely speculation, the fact that the Wings have a long playoff streak and a reputation as a classy org was the cherry on top. Green made his play and we're happy he did, but if the Wings had tried to talk him down under $5m a year, he'd be playing somewhere else. In a market like this, you grab the money while you can and if you can do so while also heading to a good team, that's about all you can hope for as a non-superstar free agent.

 

[hot dog]

Dylan Larkin is the reason why the UFAs will come.

Agreeing with you a lot lately. I think '17 is the year we really see Larkin turn into a star. 70+ points is my optimistic projection.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Mike Green said he targeted the Wings because of culture, but let's not be naive. Green is a smart guy who realized that with the cap situation going on league wide, there would be fewer free agent dollars and lots of players fighting over them.

Green targeted a team with money to spend and a glaring need for a player with his exact skill set, and he made an aggressive sale to nab himself a lot of dollars with a short enough term where he can still try to cash in once more on the back end of his career.

IMO, and this is purely speculation, the fact that the Wings have a long playoff streak and a reputation as a classy org was the cherry on top. Green made his play and we're happy he did, but if the Wings had tried to talk him down under $5m a year, he'd be playing somewhere else. In a market like this, you grab the money while you can and if you can do so while also heading to a good team, that's about all you can hope for as a non-superstar free agent.

Of course if the Wings tried to low ball him he'd be playing elsewhere. A 5M cap hit would be approaching an insulting offer when another team would give 6M at the drop of a hat.

This post seems needlessly negative. ~6M would have been the going rate for Mike Green for anyone to sign him... So the Wings landing him for an amenable term falls on the only difference between them and the other teams, their culture and play style.

Would it really have made any damn bit of sense for Mike Green to go to a team that desperately needed a player like him and take a pay cut? The fact that he didn't should show it was less money and more culture that helped this decision

 

[sarcastro]

Of course if the Wings tried to low ball him he'd be playing elsewhere. A 5M cap hit would be approaching an insulting offer when another team would give 6M at the drop of a hat.

This post seems needlessly negative. ~6M would have been the going rate for Mike Green for anyone to sign him... So the Wings landing him for an amenable term falls on the only difference between them and the other teams, their culture and play style.

Would it really have made any damn bit of sense for Mike Green to go to a team that desperately needed a player like him and take a pay cut? The fact that he didn't should show it was less money and more culture that helped this decision

I don't see it as negative in any way. I just think there were other more important factors than culture. Franson is still out there begging any garbage team to pick him up. He doesn't have the luxury of caring about culture at this point. That's where Green could have been if he didn't aggressively target the Wings, their cap space, their desperation for a right D, and finally, their organization.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I don't see it as negative in any way. I just think there were other more important factors than culture. Franson is still out there begging any garbage team to pick him up. He doesn't have the luxury of caring about culture at this point. That's where Green could have been if he didn't aggressively target the Wings, their cap space, their desperation for a right D, and finally, their organization.

That's because Mike Green is a much better player than Cody Franson. Like seriously, it isn't even close.

Franson
http://www.nhl.com/ice/player.htm?id=8471742

Green
http://capitals.nhl.com/club/player.htm?id=8471242

Green has over double the points that Franson does in about 40% more games. And it's not really an offense vs. defense thing. Cody Franson's main selling point is that he's an offensive defenseman, something he does not match up to with Mike Green in any way. Neither is a particularly great defensive defenseman.

Also, if Franson's agent didn't overshoot the market, he could easily be signed right now. 6M+ is a lot of money for an offensive D who puts up Danny DeKeyser stats.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Agreeing with you a lot lately. I think '17 is the year we really see Larkin turn into a star. 70+ points is my optimistic projection.

When do you think Larkin will be on the Wings? He has no chance of making it this season due to not having any roster spots, and he probably won't make the team next year either, whether he deserves it or not.

So you expect him to have a 70 point season either in his 1st or 2nd year in the NHL? That's not an optimistic projection IMO. That's a completely unrealistic projection.