Henkka
Registered User
Oh, Miller is now the off-season scapegoat. Veteran after veteran, not a surprise. Can't wait when Dats and Zetts will take the torch.
Prospect Info: 15th overall — C Dylan Larkin: Larkin signs 3 year entry deal
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GoAwayDanCleary
DRWCC
- Aug 6, 2012
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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haulinbass
Registered User
- Mar 6, 2014
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People forgot how good Miller is 5on5? Let alone how good he and the 4th line were in the playoffs facing Tampa's top lines regularly? That's what a great 4th line does. Glen and Miller are top notch 4th liners in today's game.
Will our team fall apart if we got rid of Miller? No, but why would you get rid of him unless some team wanted him as a final touch to a trade. The guys in our system who are likely to end up as 4th liners aren't going to be better. We also don't want to be slotting top 9 players on the 4th pairing just because of our "depth issue." That's how you destroy any trade value that player had. Anderson is the 4th liner that we will be getting rid of anyways.
Will our team fall apart if we got rid of Miller? No, but why would you get rid of him unless some team wanted him as a final touch to a trade. The guys in our system who are likely to end up as 4th liners aren't going to be better. We also don't want to be slotting top 9 players on the 4th pairing just because of our "depth issue." That's how you destroy any trade value that player had. Anderson is the 4th liner that we will be getting rid of anyways.
SpookyTsuki
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2014
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What is meant by scapegoat anyway? We're saying he's replaceable, but I don't think that's what a scapegoat is. Of course he's replaceable. He's a fourth line grinder. That's like the definition of replaceable in hockey.
Even with Lidstrom, people recognized he was slowing down, getting caught more. With Z people say the same thing. Datsyuk gets injured more even if he still puts up big points and highlight reel plays. They're still not "scapegoats." There's nothing wrong with recognizing the reality of age in an extremely physical and fast game.
Henkka
Registered User
It's this typical "scapegoat" talk, when veteran is blocking a prospect. he turns to be a hated player because somebody thinks he is not needed.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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He's saying push them off the team to make room for a prospect.
No one said that with Lidstrom. Just like no one will say that with Datsyuk or Zetterberg.
The grinders, and the role players, yes. Doesn't happen with the stars that brought this team Cups.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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WingedWheel1987
Registered User
I see no benefit in playing Larkin in the AHL if he was already putting up ppg #'s in the Conference Finals. Sure it's a small sample size, but Larkin didn't look out of place. More AHL minutes are irrelevant if he has nothing to learn from staying in the AHL. Start him off with 12 minutes a night in the NHL and give him more ice time if his play warrants it. If he sucks, send him back to the AHL. This mentality that all players must pay their dues in the AHL just doesn't sit well with me.
Also the Wings roster is full of middling talent, so finding a roster spot for him should not be an issue.
Bo Horat was drafted 9th overall and played five games in the AHL before being promoted to the Canucks and he played 68 games at the age of 19, and the only reason he didn't start the season with the Canucks was because of a pre season injury.
If the Hawks can find room for their highest rated prospects, the Wings should be able to as well. I hate saying this, but the Wings need to start emulating the Hawks. They understand how player development works in the salary cap/parity era. Right now it looks like the Wings are trying to win Calder Cups and not Stanley Cups.
Also the Wings roster is full of middling talent, so finding a roster spot for him should not be an issue.
Bo Horat was drafted 9th overall and played five games in the AHL before being promoted to the Canucks and he played 68 games at the age of 19, and the only reason he didn't start the season with the Canucks was because of a pre season injury.
If the Hawks can find room for their highest rated prospects, the Wings should be able to as well. I hate saying this, but the Wings need to start emulating the Hawks. They understand how player development works in the salary cap/parity era. Right now it looks like the Wings are trying to win Calder Cups and not Stanley Cups.
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I think the one caveat is that he only played 56 games this season. The Pro-schedule could be tough on him. Obviously, with a strong off season, this becomes less relevant but it is something to think about.
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Situation where I could see Larkin making the team
1.) Franzen is LTIR'd
2.) Weiss is bought out
3.) Pulkkinen is traded for a defenseman
I think the first 2 are pretty likely
Then you could have potentially
Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist
Helm-Larkin-Jurco
Miller-Glendening-Ferraro
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
I would be thrilled if those were Wings four lines on opening night. It would also be very easy to promote Larkin if he is outperforming Sheahan, or you could just play both lines similar minutes if both look good.
HisNoodliness
Safe is death
I disagree. I think that him spending time in grand rapids isn't wasting time or him paying his dues. Larkin needs to dominate a league to work on his offensive game. Can he come up and be a reliable 3rd line player? Of course, but he'll focus on defensive responsibility and sacrifice his offensive game and the opportunity to learn some creativity in a lesser league for some NHL time. Jurco is a great example of why pushing guys too quickly is a bad idea. He came into the league with tons of offensive upside abd lost that aspect of the game in order to stay in the league. If Larkin winds up being helm with hands the wings are screwed.
WingedWheel1987
Registered User
I respect your reasoning for wanting to start Larkin in the AHL, but i personally think Larkin only needs to work on getting physically stronger. An off season devoted to strength and conditioning is the last thing on the list Larkin needs to work on before being completely NHL ready. Fortunately he has a full off season to work on that. Ideally i would like to see him enter training camp at around 200lbs. Hockeynews currently has him listed at 190lbs.
Probie
Registered User
I couldn't agree more. Bring larkin up to start and then see how he does, worst case we need to send him down, I don't think he will need to be.
DeYarmond Edison
drinkingpinkrabbits
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Just because something didn't work for Jurco, doesn't mean it wouldn't work for Larkin. There is more than 1 way to develop a player, and everyone reacts differently.
You can develop offensively in the NHL. You can develop offensively in the AHL.
Some people need to dominate the AHL first, and some people are better off just going right to the NHL. It all just depends.
Larkin is a top-10 pick by many accounts in re-drafts. He is in a different situation than Jurco. It's not crazy for top 10 picks to play in the NHL 2 years after being drafted.
There's also the chance that Jurco's game was never going to translate, or will take several years for it to. Abdelkader put up 24 goals with the Griffins one year, and look at how long it's taken him to show any real offense in the NHL. Also, Jurco had a ridiculously low shooting percentage this past season, which I have to imagine will go up this year. Just a shooting percentage that's a few points higher will result in a few more goals.
I like Larkin up with us next year and centering the third line.Maybe he can do the same thing for Jurco that he did for Hyman.
Larkin should center the "3rd line" from day 1 next season. I think he'll be on a line with Pulk and Jurco. Helm will be with Gledening and Miller to form a great grind line.
Larkin's line would get the fewest minutes and easiest competition and zone starts, so that's really a 4th line. But, either way, I think he should be up all year next year. He'll get plenty of PK time and play with skilled linemates at even strength.
Larkin's line would get the fewest minutes and easiest competition and zone starts, so that's really a 4th line. But, either way, I think he should be up all year next year. He'll get plenty of PK time and play with skilled linemates at even strength.
I'd like Tatar and Nyquist split up, but besides for that this would be my exact lines. Just not sure if you put Jurco in Nyquist's spot or Helm in Tatar's spot. Not opposed to moving Helm for picks/a defenseman either and putting Pulkkinen in his spot, but I think we all know there is zero chance of that happening.
There's also the chance that Jurco's game was never going to translate, or will take several years for it to. Abdelkader put up 24 goals with the Griffins one year, and look at how long it's taken him to show any real offense in the NHL. Also, Jurco had a ridiculously low shooting percentage this past season, which I have to imagine will go up this year. Just a shooting percentage that's a few points higher will result in a few more goals.
I like Larkin up with us next year and centering the third line.Maybe he can do the same thing for Jurco that he did for Hyman.
He doesn't have to make him a 1.4+ PPG player. I'm willing to settle for him making him just a PPG player.
newfy
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2010
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I think you gota at least give him a look centering the third line this upcoming season. As in, if hes a top 9 player in preseason at least start him on the roster and go from there. If he plays 5 games and looks bad send him down. The AHL against a great team didnt look very difficult for him.
If he doesnt stand out in preseason, sure send him down for a year and give him some call ups
If he doesnt stand out in preseason, sure send him down for a year and give him some call ups
Agree with this. If his play warrants a spot, give him one. If it doesn't and he isn't one of the 9 best players send him to the AHL. But don't go well he is ready but he needs to pay his dues in the AHL and more seasoning couldn't hurt.
