Prospect Info: 122nd Overall 2024 Draft, LHD Aron Kiviharju

[Digitalbooya]

KIvijarhu is 184 right now. You want him to be 204+?

I’ve seen him listed at 170 across multiple sites. I would feel a lot better if he is 184 with a slight worry that it’s more fat than muscle given he was injured for most of the year.

 

[BagHead]

I’ve seen him listed at 170 across multiple sites. I would feel a lot better if he is 184 with a slight worry that it’s more fat than muscle given he was injured for most of the year.

From his interview it sounded like he's been working out as able during the season. Before he could skate again he started just walking on the ice so he could be out there. He sounds highly dedicated, and that's an admirable quality that can turn skilled juniors with limited upside into NHLers, even if just as role players.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Been following Aarons career for years now and Minny gets him, fantastic. You guys have been slaughtering draft after draft with Yurov, Wallstedt, Lambos, Heidt , Buium and now Kiviharju.

Aaron's a boom or bust as I'm sure you guys already know. He could just go back to Europe in 5-7 years or he could be Adam Fox esq.

Grats

 

[57special]

I’ve seen him listed at 170 across multiple sites. I would feel a lot better if he is 184 with a slight worry that it’s more fat than muscle given he was injured for most of the year.

Just google NHL Combine 2024 weights

 

[Digitalbooya]

Just google NHL Combine 2024 weights

Dude put on 14 pounds in a season he was mostly injured during. That’s certainly something.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Dude put on 14 pounds in a season he was mostly injured during. That’s certainly something.

Starting number might not have been accurate.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Starting number might not have been accurate.

Or he was bored and bulked up.

 

[BagHead]

Been following Aarons career for years now and Minny gets him, fantastic. You guys have been slaughtering draft after draft with Yurov, Wallstedt, Lambos, Heidt , Buium and now Kiviharju.

Aaron's a boom or bust as I'm sure you guys already know. He could just go back to Europe in 5-7 years or he could be Adam Fox esq.

Grats

I appreciate you coming in and being kind. Most here aren't so high on Lambos, including me, but I've enjoyed the rest. I just hope more than half of those guys named become good NHLers.

 

[Nsjohnson]

I’ve seen him listed at 170 across multiple sites. I would feel a lot better if he is 184 with a slight worry that it’s more fat than muscle given he was injured for most of the year.

A few things.

Regardless of 170 vs 184, we are talking about an 18 year old. The only thing he needs to do is put muscle on regardless, and get more powerful in said muscle.

If he is 184 and 14% body fat, he's healthy. If he's 170 and 8%, he is healthy.

Point is, he's 18, hasn't had Pro level nutrition nor exercise that he will eventually get.

In the NHL you want all 5'10'' guys to be at least 190 pounds. Spurgeon is not that and never has been. He also is what, two inches shorter?

This kid will be fine. Now, that doesn't mean he will play in the NHL but that won't be because of size.

 

[Wabit]

A few things.

Regardless of 170 vs 184, we are talking about an 18 year old. The only thing he needs to do is put muscle on regardless, and get more powerful in said muscle.

If he is 184 and 14% body fat, he's healthy. If he's 170 and 8%, he is healthy.

Point is, he's 18, hasn't had Pro level nutrition nor exercise that he will eventually get.

In the NHL you want all 5'10'' guys to be at least 190 pounds. Spurgeon is not that and never has been. He also is what, two inches shorter?

This kid will be fine. Now, that doesn't mean he will play in the NHL but that won't be because of size.

Used NHL.com stats for this (need to go into the bio dropdown and some other filter options are given)
Do you know how many 5'9" d-men play 20 games a year in the NHL? On average (since the lockout) it's 3 (Bryson, Krug, Hunt, Mete, and Hunt are the names that repeat). Even if you add in 5'10" d-men that total number jumps to around 13. So less than half the teams have 1 small d-man.

The odds are not in his favor (insert never tell me the odd meme). Maybe he beats the odds, or maybe he never sets foot on NA ice?

It was a 4th round pick so it's a decent boom or bust gamble. I don't dislike the pick when viewed just on it's own, this is a draft spot to take a gamble. I dislike the pick because it's another pick spent on LD.

 

[MuckOG]

Used NHL.com stats for this (need to go into the bio dropdown and some other filter options are given)
Do you know how many 5'9" d-men play 20 games a year in the NHL? On average (since the lockout) it's 3 (Bryson, Krug, Hunt, Mete, and Hunt are the names that repeat). Even if you add in 5'10" d-men that total number jumps to around 13. So less than half the teams have 1 small d-man.

The odds are not in his favor (insert never tell me the odd meme). Maybe he beats the odds, or maybe he never sets foot on NA ice?

It was a 4th round pick so it's a decent boom or bust gamble. I don't dislike the pick when viewed just on it's own, this is a draft spot to take a gamble. I dislike the pick because it's another pick spent on LD.

The odds are not in favor of any player selected that late in the draft.

 

[Wabit]

The odds are not in favor of any player selected that late in the draft.

Which is why I'm fine with a boom or bust pick in this spot. I'm also fine with a taking a big/physical guy with good speed here. Taking a goalie is fine here too (you need one every or at the most every other draft). What I don't want is a 5'11" or smaller kid without any NHL quality attributes.

 

[Nsjohnson]

Used NHL.com stats for this (need to go into the bio dropdown and some other filter options are given)
Do you know how many 5'9" d-men play 20 games a year in the NHL? On average (since the lockout) it's 3 (Bryson, Krug, Hunt, Mete, and Hunt are the names that repeat). Even if you add in 5'10" d-men that total number jumps to around 13. So less than half the teams have 1 small d-man.

The odds are not in his favor (insert never tell me the odd meme). Maybe he beats the odds, or maybe he never sets foot on NA ice?

It was a 4th round pick so it's a decent boom or bust gamble. I don't dislike the pick when viewed just on it's own, this is a draft spot to take a gamble. I dislike the pick because it's another pick spent on LD.

Yes but the context is important.

We didn't draft him for his defense. Nor did we draft him in the first three rounds.

 

[ijuka]

Which is why I'm fine with a boom or bust pick in this spot. I'm also fine with a taking a big/physical guy with good speed here. Taking a goalie is fine here too (you need one every or at the most every other draft). What I don't want is a 5'11" or smaller kid without any NHL quality attributes.

Does he really have no NHL quality attributes?

We could at least say playmaking, breakouts, vision, hockey IQ. Then we could say intangibles as well. I guess it depends on which attributes you're looking for but that just sounds off.

You make it sound like he tops out as a #6 defenseman or something. But that just sounds pretty off.

Of course, the main concern is that he's had two knee injuries, in 20-21 and 23-24, and missed almost the entire season two times. But these players are still young, and attributes such as hockey IQ or vision don't just disappear. Skating ability might, true, but it's not the only attribute a player can have. The ones I listed should be quite projectable. And hard work and good work ethic can get you far when it comes to improving your physical attributes, such as skating.

It's also worth noting that Minnesota Wild was his favorite team growing up. Should it matter? Probably not, but it might give this little extra boost.

 

[Wabit]

Does he really have no NHL quality attributes?

We could at least say playmaking, breakouts, vision, hockey IQ. Then we could say intangibles as well. I guess it depends on which attributes you're looking for but that just sounds off.

You make it sound like he tops out as a #6 defenseman or something. But that just sounds pretty off.

Of course, the main concern is that he's had two knee injuries, in 20-21 and 23-24, and missed almost the entire season two times. But these players are still young, and attributes such as hockey IQ or vision don't just disappear. Skating ability might, true, but it's not the only attribute a player can have. The ones I listed should be quite projectable.

I haven't criticized this kid. Nor even really commented on him other than saying I didn't like drafting another LD. At least I don't think I have. The pick isn't worth my getting worked up over to me.

It's just a boom or bust long shot 4th round pick that I'll forget about in a couple of days.

 

[keppel146]

If Brian Rafalski made it, there’s hope for this guy.

 

[MuckOG]

If Brian Rafalski made it, there’s hope for this guy.

Are we forgetting Jared Spurgeon also?

 

[BagHead]

Are we forgetting Jared Spurgeon also?

I wish we were, his name is how all of this started.

Which is sort of weird, right? Who wouldn't want to draft a decade+ of really good defense in the 4th round? Even if the player is small, that's insane value.

 

[keppel146]

Are we forgetting Jared Spurgeon also?

I think Spurgeon was already mentioned. Also there was convo about smaller guys in the Stanley Cup Finals and Rafalski is an example of that.

 

[Wasted Talent]

I think Spurgeon was already mentioned. Also there was convo about smaller guys in the Stanley Cup Finals and Rafalski is an example of that.

Rafalski also played for the same Finnish team as Kiviharju before his NHL career, if you want to draw some parallels.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I wish we were, his name is how all of this started.

Which is sort of weird, right? Who wouldn't want to draft a decade+ of really good defense in the 4th round? Even if the player is small, that's insane value.

A slick pedigree of losing in the 1st round because he’s built like a Prius when the playoffs need dmen to be built at least like a 1500 level pickup truck

 

[BagHead]

A slick pedigree of losing in the 1st round because he’s built like a Prius when the playoffs need dmen to be built at least like a 1500 level pickup truck

You get more in a trade for Jared Spurgeon (pre-$7.5M x 7yrs) than you do in a trade for a 4th round pick. I'd rather pick the small NHLer than the big nobody.

 

[TaLoN]

You get more in a trade for Jared Spurgeon (pre-$7.5M x 7yrs) than you do in a trade for a 4th round pick. I'd rather pick the small NHLer than the big nobody.

Exactly this. If you get a legit NHL player in round 4, you're doing well, no matter the position.

 

[Digitalbooya]

You get more in a trade for Jared Spurgeon (pre-$7.5M x 7yrs) than you do in a trade for a 4th round pick. I'd rather pick the small NHLer than the big nobody.

I’m not sure what this has to do with refuting what I said.

I’d rather not have Spurgeon on this team at all right now. I’d give him away for free. Use the $7.5M on a defender actually worth his chops in the playoffs.

 

[AKL]

I’m not sure what this has to do with refuting what I said.

I’d rather not have Spurgeon on this team at all right now. I’d give him away for free. Use the $7.5M on a defender actually worth his chops in the playoffs.

Why not trade him and get some assets along with the cap space to use on a defender actually worth his chops in the playoffs?