GDT: 12/31/24 4pm Winter Classic blues @ Hawks TNT

[x Tame Impala]

What was KD supposed to do this past offseason that would’ve put us in a better spot this year?

Lots of whining during the middle of a rebuild and not a lot of solutions. He got rid of a bunch or rye Entwhistle-types and tried to bring in some vets. Mixed results for sure but weren’t we rumored to be in on Guentzel too?

I side more with Hawkaholic on this one. We’re a bad team, playing badly. What’s the surprise and disappointment for? Next year bring up some Rockford kids and hire a proven NHL coach. We were always supposed to be picking top 3 this year

 

[Clownish]

What was KD supposed to do this past offseason that would’ve put us in a better spot this year?

Lots of whining during the middle of a rebuild and not a lot of solutions. He got rid of a bunch or rye Entwhistle-types and tried to bring in some vets. Mixed results for sure but weren’t we rumored to be in on Guentzel too?

I side more with Hawkaholic on this one. We’re a bad team, playing badly. What’s the surprise and disappointment for? Next year bring up some Rockford kids and hire a proven NHL coach. We were always supposed to be picking top 3 this year

I've played this exercise before on here--I suggest a plan that would've been better than what they have and you say that wouldn't work, that player wouldn't come here, that trade wouldn't happen. Give me a list of who was discussed by KD and we can go from there. Otherwise, it's a silly game that you can't fathom any other outcome since those outcomes never happened.

 

[Pez68]

What was KD supposed to do this past offseason that would’ve put us in a better spot this year?

Lots of whining during the middle of a rebuild and not a lot of solutions. He got rid of a bunch or rye Entwhistle-types and tried to bring in some vets. Mixed results for sure but weren’t we rumored to be in on Guentzel too?

I side more with Hawkaholic on this one. We’re a bad team, playing badly. What’s the surprise and disappointment for? Next year bring up some Rockford kids and hire a proven NHL coach. We were always supposed to be picking top 3 this year

His offseason acquisitions have been absolutely terrible. Bertuzzi and TT made sense, but the Hawks are utilizing TT in a checking role(WTF) and Bertuzzi only recently got put on a line with Bedard. I figured that would be the Bedard line from puck drop.

Bringing in guys who cannot skate and are clearly washed was a terrible f***ing idea. Maroon and Brodie are both worse than useless. The NHL just gets faster and faster and having anchors on EVERY f***ING LINE AND D PAIRING is a recipe for getting your ass kicked. Puck retrieval might be one of the most important aspects of NHL hockey today, and the Hawks are icing 1-2 guys EVERY SHIFT that can't win a footrace to save their lives.

Next offseason is going to be make or break for Davidson, for me. Way too many questionable decisions.

 

[ColbyChaos]

This rebuild and tank stuff is getting to be bullshit now, I mean 3rd straight year we are looking at the worst record or close to it. Other franchises compete every year, rebuild on the fly. Chicago teams have to go to the very bottom of the league before building back to even competitiveness. This team is almost impossible to wtch, the are horrible

We were literally bottom of the league from 2004-2007

 

[ColbyChaos]

So, now after all this slop what is the future for this roster. I mean it's literally year 3 of the rebuild and it seems we are worse than last year.
I had hope of at least making the playoffs next season but that seems like a pipe dream now. It is looking like 26/27 at the earliest.

If you seriously thought wed be a playoff team next year bless your heart

 

[ColbyChaos]

I get your point, but your first 2 referenced examples are probably reasons not to do a total rebuild...more so than examples of how long it should take. Toronto and Edmonton are generally ridiculed for doing a poor job building around their young stars.

Colorado wasn't in a long losing stretch leading up to drafting MacKinnon. That's apples and oranges to the Hawks situation.

The Hawks have not won more games than they lost since the 16/17 season. We're now in the midst of their 8th consecutive losing season (counting OTL's as losses).

From 2011 Coloardo picked 2nd overall
2012 they traded for Varlamov which saw the caps draft Forsberg at 11.
2013 draft MacK at #1
2014 made the playoffs
2015 missed the playoffs and drafted Raantanen at 10
2016 missed the playoffs and drafted Jost at 10
2017 worst in the league drafted Makar at 4

Looks like a long period of losing to me.

Also Stan Bowman's dumbassery resulted for 5 of the last 8 losing seasons. If anything be upset his moronic ass wasnt fired earlier since he sure as shit left the team in a terrible spot as a bottom 5 team with no first rounder in 2022.

 

[Hakoon]

What a great incentive for CHSN to complete a deal with Comcast.

 

[Blackhawks26]

Wasn't even cold.

Your opinion of cold versus mine differs I guess. Maybe it wasn’t -5 but it was still a wet cold day.

 

[ello]

I've played this exercise before on here--I suggest a plan that would've been better than what they have and you say that wouldn't work, that player wouldn't come here, that trade wouldn't happen. Give me a list of who was discussed by KD and we can go from there. Otherwise, it's a silly game that you can't fathom any other outcome since those outcomes never happened.

Well I mean maybe the expert making millions of dollars to lead the rebuild of an Original 6 franchise should be able to find creative solutions?

 

[BRayne]

Wasn't even cold.

Maybe it was the overhang I was under or the spiked hot chocolates I was drinking, but I'd agree

 

[southsideIrish]

Well I mean maybe the expert making millions of dollars to lead the rebuild of an Original 6 franchise should be able to find creative solutions?

Now that's just crazy talk. Expecting paid professionals to do their jobs.

I posted something similar a week ago. In every sport we see teams turn things around very quickly. The right combination of spending, hiring, drafting, and so on needs to happen. But it does happen.

But in Chicago rebuilds take years, sometimes many years. Decades go by with no winning seasons or playoffs. And the fans are supposed to be patient with that and keep forking over $$ lol.

 

[ClydeLee]

Well I mean maybe the expert making millions of dollars to lead the rebuild of an Original 6 franchise should be able to find creative solutions?

Jeff Gorton was paid millions to do that... and is paid millions to do that again, is his actions impressive or wild or different?

What do we mean, in Chicago, what's different about montreal, other than they haven't even done anything on 30 years. Or Toronto doing a similar thing just years ago

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

We were literally bottom of the league from 2004-2007

In 04 the Hawks fell apart because of Daze (Injured early Oct) and Thibault (Injured in early Nov) being lost with career destroying injuries

When Thibault went down team was 6-5-3 and he looked to be building off his 03 all-star season

Without Thibault the goaltending situation went to shit as Passmore, Leighton, Anderson and Munro were mostly terrible (Anderson has his moments flashing potential that would see him become 300+ game winner in NHL).

After it had all fallen apart in net and season went off rails the Hawks decided to start to trade off what they had that teams were interested in. Zhamnov, Sullivan, Karpovtsev, Nieminen and Dempsey

In 2006 the Hawks were expecting to compete for playoffs after Wirtz opened checkbook signing Khabby, Aucoin, etc after lockout and kids were supposed to step-up (Ruutu, ABC line, Russians, etc) and it all went down tubes from basically start for fiasco of season

In 2007 the Hawks again didn't plan to be bad with flurry of moves including trading for Handzus, Havlat and Smolinski in offseason (I was f***ing excited to see Havlat/Handzus together on Hawks)

And even then, as bad as that was we never reached the lows of this era outside of that 03-04 season when injuries left team in disarray and then it was essentially blown up of NHL talent to end season with noticeable improvement yearly

03-04 = 20-43-11-8 (59 pts)
05-06 = 26-43-13 (65 pts)
06-07 = 31-42-9 (71 pts)
07-08 = 40-34-8 (88 pts)

vs now (I will begin after Davidson had interim tag taken off and blew it up)

22-23 = 26-49-7 (59 pts)
23-24 = 23-52-6 (52 pts)
24-25 = 12-24-6 (26 pts)

This years team looks as terrible as previous years with no signs of any improvement and his acquisitions of vets has been dismal

After Tallon took over as GM he traded for or signed in his first 3 years some pretty damn good talent

Radim Vrbata (Trade)
Nikolai Khabibulin (Signed)
Adrian Aucoin (Signed)
Martin Lapointe (Signed)
Martin Havlat (Trade)
Bryan Smolinski (Trade)
Michal Handzus (Trade)
Robert Lang (Signed)
Jason Williams (Trade)
Brent Sopel (Signed)

And added three kids via trades in Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg and Andrew Ladd who would have big impact with Hawks in future

People point out the bad (Cullimore, Brown, Dowd, etc) but tend to ignore the talent that came in via Tallon via trade and FA to put around kids.

What the f*** has Davidson done of comparable over his first 3 years now? Foligno is his Lapointe one could argue but what else has he added? TT and Bertuzzi are his big additions and neither looks all that great right now though hopefully improve in 2nd half of year

Davidson also has slow rolled/held back kids this year which is counter to what we had in 06-08 when kids galore were given development/NHL experience or at least f***ing cups of coffee (Dach cant get even that)

 

[Hawkaholic]

I cant imagine defending this and saying this should take 7+ years. That is completely absurd.

As this goes on, and this team not only doesn't improve, but regresses further down the toilet.... Kyle Davidson looks more and more like Rick Hahn and Ryan Poles.

This isn't Football. You can't just draft guys and expect them to make a difference right away, more like for 5+ years in most cases. It's not absurd at all, most proper rebuilds take lots of time.

 

[Paul Allen]

This isn't Football. You can't just draft guys and expect them to make a difference right away, more like for 5+ years in most cases. It's not absurd at all, most proper rebuilds take lots of time.

Right, and you really can’t compare to the Hawks previous “rebuild” because they weren’t intentionally trying to tank. They got lucky drafting Toews and a boatload of non first round picks hitting.

 

[hockeydoug]

What was KD supposed to do this past offseason that would’ve put us in a better spot this year?

I thought his summer was a very good change of direction but he still did nothing to bring in brain power and experience to the front office or development staff.

Too many people learning through mistakes as they waste years and Danny's inheritance.

2c and veteran front office and coaching help. He checked a bunch of boxes with other on ice talent and reducing the number of picks, but those 3 holes are gargantuan problems right now.

 

[hockeydoug]

In 04 the Hawks fell apart because of Daze (Injured early Oct) and Thibault (Injured in early Nov) being lost with career destroying injuries

When Thibault went down team was 6-5-3 and he looked to be building off his 03 all-star season

Without Thibault the goaltending situation went to shit as Passmore, Leighton, Anderson and Munro were mostly terrible (Anderson has his moments flashing potential that would see him become 300+ game winner in NHL).

After it had all fallen apart in net and season went off rails the Hawks decided to start to trade off what they had that teams were interested in. Zhamnov, Sullivan, Karpovtsev, Nieminen and Dempsey

In 2006 the Hawks were expecting to compete for playoffs after Wirtz opened checkbook signing Khabby, Aucoin, etc after lockout and kids were supposed to step-up (Ruutu, ABC line, Russians, etc) and it all went down tubes from basically start for fiasco of season

In 2007 the Hawks again didn't plan to be bad with flurry of moves including trading for Handzus, Havlat and Smolinski in offseason (I was f***ing excited to see Havlat/Handzus together on Hawks)

And even then, as bad as that was we never reached the lows of this era outside of that 03-04 season when injuries left team in disarray and then it was essentially blown up of NHL talent to end season with noticeable improvement yearly

03-04 = 20-43-11-8 (59 pts)
05-06 = 26-43-13 (65 pts)
06-07 = 31-42-9 (71 pts)
07-08 = 40-34-8 (88 pts)

vs now (I will begin after Davidson had interim tag taken off and blew it up)

22-23 = 26-49-7 (59 pts)
23-24 = 23-52-6 (52 pts)
24-25 = 12-24-6 (26 pts)

This years team looks as terrible as previous years with no signs of any improvement and his acquisitions of vets has been dismal

After Tallon took over as GM he traded for or signed in his first 3 years some pretty damn good talent

Radim Vrbata (Trade)
Nikolai Khabibulin (Signed)
Adrian Aucoin (Signed)
Martin Lapointe (Signed)
Martin Havlat (Trade)
Bryan Smolinski (Trade)
Michal Handzus (Trade)
Robert Lang (Signed)
Jason Williams (Trade)
Brent Sopel (Signed)

And added three kids via trades in Patrick Sharp, Kris Versteeg and Andrew Ladd who would have big impact with Hawks in future

People point out the bad (Cullimore, Brown, Dowd, etc) but tend to ignore the talent that came in via Tallon via trade and FA to put around kids.

What the f*** has Davidson done of comparable over his first 3 years now? Foligno is his Lapointe one could argue but what else has he added? TT and Bertuzzi are his big additions and neither looks all that great right now though hopefully improve in 2nd half of year

Davidson also has slow rolled/held back kids this year which is counter to what we had in 06-08 when kids galore were given development/NHL experience or at least f***ing cups of coffee (Dach cant get even that)

The 04 Hawks fell apart because WWW was dismantling down to the studs in October of 03' starting with a full purge of anybody making more than 50 bucks in the front office. The owners decided the lockout was coming, it had nothing to do with managers for clubs like Bos and Chicago.

Tallon was a hot mess of accidents. He almost trashed the winning years before they started. I don't think he even read the CBA because it would have made him late for his tee times and dinners.

I think it is important to point out that like Tallon, the only thing that KD has demonstrated proficiency is being a good lap dog for the family and selling players and hiring rookie coaches.

 

[Sarava]

This isn't Football. You can't just draft guys and expect them to make a difference right away, more like for 5+ years in most cases. It's not absurd at all, most proper rebuilds take lots of time.

Yeah I get it. Basketball and football players don't require the development time that baseball and hockey players require.

Kyle has been GM since October of 21, though in fairness, only the fulltime GM since March 1st, 2022. Clearly Rocky and Danny Wirtz signed off on a full rebuild when they hired him. He made the Hagel trade 17 days later which kind of started it all.

Rebuilds were a popular thing in Chicago sports at that time. The Cubs did it and it worked. They won a title in 2016. The Sox saw fans were supportive of it and did their own rebuild, which was very popular with fans. Their rebuild looked really good for several years before it went south.

Since then things haven't gone as well. One could probably argue the worst teams in the NHL, NFL and MLB are all in Chicago right now and it's largely thanks to this total rebuild-mania that gripped our town's franchises.

Getting back to the Hawks and the Wirtz's signing off on a full rebuild in March of 22. It makes me wonder what Kyle sold to them as an expected timeline. I can't for the life of me think he told them 8 years and they happily agreed to that. That just feels impossible. There's zero chance he would have been hired if he gave an 8 year timeline to compete again.

 

[TLEH]

Well it takes time but also the evaluation is harder. You don't know its bad until years into it. Like when is the earliest we'll be able to say like Davidson sucks for sure? Like 2026?

 

[MHO]

Well it takes time but also the evaluation is harder. You don't know its bad until years into it. Like when is the earliest we'll be able to say like Davidson sucks for sure? Like 2026?

I also feel like we need to define the end of a rebuild. Is it when the team just doesn't suck? Is it when the team competes for a playoff spot? Or is it when the team is a true cup contender? Call me crazy but I don't think they suck next year.

 

[BobbyJet]

Getting back to the Hawks and the Wirtz's signing off on a full rebuild in March of 22. It makes me wonder what Kyle sold to them as an expected timeline. I can't for the life of me think he told them 8 years and they happily agreed to that. That just feels impossible. There's zero chance he would have been hired if he gave an 8 year timeline to compete again.

The time line presented to management was likely 5 years tops which was always unrealistic. in the current situation, Hawks will have had made giant leaps to be a legit playoff contender in the 2026-27 season.

 

[hockeydoug]

Well it takes time but also the evaluation is harder. You don't know its bad until years into it. Like when is the earliest we'll be able to say like Davidson sucks for sure? Like 2026?

He actually watched 4 rookie HCs in a row, it's not like he was a new guy. That's guano territory.

Has a serious franchise, not shaking pockets for nickels, ever done that in the cap era?

Most total draft picks in 2 years in cap era
Most top 50 picks in 3 years for any gm in cap era
Plenty of stat records

Now he's on track to be one of very few gms to get 3 top 3 OA picks in 3 years.

He's in exclusive territory and it's not good.

The time line presented to management was likely 5 years tops which was always unrealistic. in the current situation, Hawks will have had made giant leaps to be a legit playoff contender in the 2026-27 season.

Normally I would say that no owner would buy into a 5 year timeline, but after watching the media rollout...

 

[ClydeLee]

Now he's on track to be one of very few gms to get 3 top 3 OA picks in 3 years.

He's in exclusive territory and it's not good.


Normally I would say that no owner would buy into a 5 year timeline, but after watching the media rollout...

"Not good." You say. That all depends on if you think that's intentional or not.

Davidson said in his official hired presser. This rebuild may take 3, 5, however many years I don't want to put a timeline on it.

Yeah, best thing he's done is convince Danny to go along with it.

 

[Hawkaholic]

He actually watched 4 rookie HCs in a row, it's not like he was a new guy. That's guano territory.

Has a serious franchise, not shaking pockets for nickels, ever done that in the cap era?

Most total draft picks in 2 years in cap era
Most top 50 picks in 3 years for any gm in cap era
Plenty of stat records

Now he's on track to be one of very few gms to get 3 top 3 OA picks in 3 years.

He's in exclusive territory and it's not good.


Normally I would say that no owner would buy into a 5 year timeline, but after watching the media rollout...

A 5 year rebuild is basically unheard of, and completely unrealistic.

 

[BobbyJet]

"Not good." You say. That all depends on if you think that's intentional or not.

Davidson said in his official hired presser. This rebuild may take 3, 5, however many years I don't want to put a timeline on it.

Yeah, best thing he's done is convince Danny to go along with it.

"Concepts" of a plan.