12'/13' Draft Thread: Offensive flash is a beauty but defensive presence rules.

[ErnieLeafs]

Haven't seen mantha but I question Gauthier's offensive potential.

From what I've seen/heard, Mantha is a goal scoring machine. NHL level speed, a rocket of a shot, and a big body. Questions stem from his willingness to get involved in his own end, from what I can see.

Projects to be one of the top power forward prospects available. His size/skill combination would be great for a 2nd line consisting of JVR and Kadri

 

[Epictetus]

Yeah, Mantha is legit. Whoever lands him is going to get a very good goal scorer with game-breaking potential. You'll think you shut him down, then out of nowhere he'll score a goal against you.

The issues related to him are from consistency and not playing a full, complete hockey game. This is solvable, however. What's important is that the size and projectability is there.

This is a great draft for the Quebec League. I hope Leaf management can ignore their historical record of not drafting from this league.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Yeah, Mantha is legit. Whoever lands him is going to get a very good goal scorer with game-breaking potential. You'll think you shut him down, then out of nowhere he'll score a goal against you.

The issues related to him are from consistency and not playing a full, complete hockey game. This is solvable, however. What's important is that the size and projectability is there.

This is a great draft for the Quebec League. I hope Leaf management can ignore their historical record of not drafting from this league.

how would you rate Mantha in terms of his potential, similar to Nichushkin?

 

[Johny Drama]

Don't look now, but the other prospect I pimped along with my favorite comrade Nichushkin long before they were known on this board, Justin Bailey has more goals than Radek Faksa and is already tied for 2nd on the Kitchener Rangers. Not bad for a slow start and for a raw kid playing his first season out of highschool hockey.

Kid is going in the first round, those that thought he was a 2nd rounder, not happening, his stock is rising.

There is a lot of players who have more goals than Faksa. Not sure how he's played overall, but his numbers are certainly disappointing.

 

[Johny Drama]

I wonder if we see any slight changes in the draft with Nonis in charge, even though scouts will be the same. Seem to have avoided Eastern European players and players from the Q, under Burke's watch. I can't really see it making much of a difference, but I suppose Nonis could tell the scouts that criteria of how they rank players maybe slighty different.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Hopefully. Those leagues/regions produce talent, and talent shouldn't be ignored. Hertl and Jaskin look like good ones. I really liked both.

 

[The Magic Man]

I agree with you Ernie. I'm interested in Mantha, Gauthier but also Erne, Hagg and Shinkaruk. Although Shinkaruk will be going higher then the rest. But if Nonis takes his patient approach, we may be looking Shinkaruk of even higher.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

If we get a top 5 pick, I want the one of the following:
1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Drouin
4. Jones

5-10 pick:
1. Monahan
2. Lindholm
3. Ristolainen
4. Shinkaruk

10-15:
1. Erne
2. Mantha
3. Fucale
4. Nichushkin

15-20:
1. Lehkonen
2. Wennberg
3. Gauthier
4. Compher

20-25:
1. Duclair
2. Rychel
3. Hagg
4. Lazar

After that, I believe things get really murky. We'll have to see where the chips fall closer to draft day. I imagine there will be guys slide (Fasching is one) into the second round, and would provide solid value.

 

[-DeMo-]

If we get a top 5 pick, I want the one of the following:
1. MacKinnon
2. Barkov
3. Drouin

5-10 pick:
1. Monahan
2. Lindholm
3. Ristolainen
4. Shinkaruk

10-15:
1. Erne
2. Mantha
3. Fucale
4. Nichushkin

15-20:
1. Lehkonen
2. Wennberg
3. Gauthier
4. Compher

20-25:
1. Duclair
2. Rychel
3. Hagg
4. Lazar

After that, I believe things get really murky. We'll have to see where the chips fall closer to draft day. I imagine there will be guys slide (Fasching is one) into the second round, and would provide solid value.

Lazar is falling in the rankings 26th in NA skaters by CSS which if we end up in the bottom 5 we might be able to take Lazar in the 2nd round.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Lazar is falling in the rankings 26th in NA skaters by CSS which if we end up in the bottom 5 we might be able to take Lazar in the 2nd round.

He would be solid value at the top of the 2nd.

Question is, does he have the chops to play in a 3rd line roll, or is he top 6 or bust?

 

[Terrence]

He would be solid value at the top of the 2nd.

Question is, does he have the chops to play in a 3rd line roll, or is he top 6 or bust?

His floor is a 3rd line centre and his game is well suited for a 3rd line role. His offensive upside is what's being questioned and that's why he's slipping.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

His floor is a 3rd line centre and his game is well suited for a 3rd line role. His offensive upside is what's being questioned and that's why he's slipping.

Yeah, I have a buddy that coaches hockey in Edmonton, and he was on the Lazar train last year, really pumping his tires, but he's changed his tune. He said that Lazar reminds him of Lombardi. Great, speedy skater, but completely lacks finish this year. Frustrating to watch, apparently.

 

[The Magic Man]

Yeah, I have a buddy that coaches hockey in Edmonton, and he was on the Lazar train last year, really pumping his tires, but he's changed his tune. He said that Lazar reminds him of Lombardi. Great, speedy skater, but completely lacks finish this year. Frustrating to watch, apparently.

We do have a lack of real 3rd-4th line center prospects along the same lines as Biggs. I really think you need them to win. If he has some shutdown/agitator/gritty skills, I'd be happy with a selection like that in the 2nd round, or if we acquired a late 1st pick for a guy like that.

We need to develop these types more then we need more 2nd liners.

 

[The Magic Man]

If we end up picking in the 10-25 range, I'd really like to take a long look at a guy like Gauthier. A huge kid that can play with power, and has an understanding of the defensive side of the game. Best case scenario, it looks like the kid could be a Jordan Staal type.

ISS Top 30 Countdown #22 Frederik Gauthier Strong 2-way power forward. Shows high level of understanding for the physics of the game.

ISS Top 30 #26 Frederik Gauthier Powerful skater mature beyond years. Excellent offensive intelligence, defensive/physical upside.

I wish I had more opportunity to see these guys play.

 

[Epictetus]

how would you rate Mantha in terms of his potential, similar to Nichushkin?

Nichuskin will be the better hockey player, but Mantha will be the better scorer.

I agree though, with the scouts, that Matha is completely ineffective defensively. For example, he only reaches out with his stick to block passing and shooting lanes, and that is if he interested. He also breaks out of the zone waaay too early at times. He's more of the, "okay you guys play defense, and I will play offense" type of kids you meet playing little league or something, who fail to realize you need to do both to be successful. It is a team game after all.

With that said, for me personally, I would still take Mantha. It's very rare to see a player that is as cerebral as him offensively with that size, who will be a perennial 30 goal-scorer.

I can't conceive of him ignoring the weaknesses in his game as he turns professional. It's essentially a requirement of any good coach.

Not necessarily related to Mantha or Nichuskin, but:

For the Leafs, I think it's time to start ignoring the 3rd-4th line players who have leadership, strength, "intangibles" and other subjective criteria they want. It's time to start taking kids with higher upside, and who can put the puck in the net or change the momentum of a game as soon as they step on the ice.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Nichuskin will be the better hockey player, but Mantha will be the better scorer.

I agree though, with the scouts, that Matha is completely ineffective defensively. For example, he only reaches out with his stick to block passing and shooting lanes, and that is if he interested. He also breaks out of the zone waaay too early at times. He's more of the, "okay you guys play defense, and I will play offense" type of kids you meet playing little league or something, who fail to realize you need to do both to be successful. It is a team game after all.

With that said, for me personally, I would still take Mantha. It's very rare to see a player that is as cerebral as him offensively with that size, who will be a perennial 30 goal-scorer.

I can't conceive of him ignoring the weaknesses in his game as he turns professional. It's essentially a requirement of any good coach.

Not necessarily related to Mantha or Nichuskin, but:

For the Leafs, I think it's time to start ignoring the 3rd-4th line players who have leadership, strength, "intangibles" and other subjective criteria they want. It's time to start taking kids with higher upside, and who can put the puck in the net or change the momentum of a game as soon as they step on the ice.

In regards to your last paragraph, I was trumpeting that HARD from the 2010 draft on.

We've drafted plenty of role players, it's time to swing for the fences.

 

[Johny Drama]

In regards to your last paragraph, I was trumpeting that HARD from the 2010 draft on.

We've drafted plenty of role players, it's time to swing for the fences.

IMO, role players and kids with character should be taken in the mid and lower rounds. High skill level and high hockey IQ should be first and foremost in the top 3 rounds.

 

[The Magic Man]

I gotta disagree with you guys on the role player issues. I think if you look back at the last, maybe, 10 drafts, you will see that most of the kids taken in the 10-30 range that pan out to top line talents are very few and far between. Most of them that do are usually D. Like Karlsson and Green. But the bulk of successful talent is role players. Or at least smart 2way guys.

For every Giroux you have 2 or 3 Sutters, Hanzels, and Downies. I don't like the idea of passing on a player that could be a dominate 3rd liner for a gamble like Colborne. We have lots of prospects like Rupert, Ryan, Crescenzi and Ross, but I think Biggs is the only blue-chipper. In 3-4 years he could be the only one on the roster. I'd like to see more sure fire utility guys that have 2nd line potential.

As an example, in the 2011 draft, with the 3 picks, I wanted 2 utility guys like Biggs, Saad, Jenner, or Ritchie and one of Rattie, Phillips or Shane Prince. Just to give you an idea of what I mean. I hope if we're looking in the 10-25 range somehow, we consider one the likes of Gauthier, Erne or even Lazar.

 

[1972]

I don't know where to put it but the Leafs offered 5th + 35th to Buffalo for 12th + 21st at the 2012 draft. Thought I would share.

 

[-DeMo-]

Yeah, I have a buddy that coaches hockey in Edmonton, and he was on the Lazar train last year, really pumping his tires, but he's changed his tune. He said that Lazar reminds him of Lombardi. Great, speedy skater, but completely lacks finish this year. Frustrating to watch, apparently.

Lombardi was a very good third line center prior to his concussion so that would be very good value for a 2nd round pick. we need to find our own Brandon Sutter that can be here long term.

 

[-DeMo-]

nevermind here's the rosters for those who want to know

TEAM CHERRY:

COACH:
Don Cherry

ASSISTANTS:
Brian Kilrea
Nick Kypreos
Bert O'Brien

GOALIES:
Zachary Fucale, Halifax, QMJHL
Tristan Jarry, Edmonton, WHL

DEFENSEMEN:
Samuel Morin, Rimouski, QMJHL
Joshua Morrissey, Prince Albert, WHL
Mirco Mueller, Everett, WHL
Darnell Nurse, Sault Ste. Marie, OHL
Eric Roy, Brandon, WHL
Jordan Subban, Belleville Bulls, OHL

FORWARDS:
Cole Cassels, Oshawa, OHL
Jason Dickinson, Guelph, OHL
Jonathan Drouin, Halifax, QMJHL
Frederik Gauthier, Rimouski, QMJHL
Stephen Harper, Erie, OHL
Ryan Hartman, Plymouth, OHL
Ryan Kujawinski, Kingston, OHL
Nathan MacKinnon, Halifax, QMJHL
Anthony Mantha, Val-d'Or, QMJHL
Zach Nastasiuk, Owen Sound, OHL
Valentin Zykov, Baie-Comeau, QMJHL

TEAM ORR:

COACH:
Mike McPhee

ASSISTANTS:
Dominique Ducharme
Doug MacLean

GOALIES:
Philippe Desrosiers, Rimouski, QMJHL
Spencer Martin, Mississauga, OHL

DEFENSEMEN:
Chris Bigras, Owen Sound, OHL
Madison Bowey, Kelowna, WHL
Seth Jones, Portland, WHL
Jan Kostalek, Rimouski, QMJHL
Shea Theodore, Seattle, WHL
Nikita Zadorov, London, OHL

FORWARDS:
Justin Bailey, Kitchener, OHL
Oliver Bjorkstrand, Portland, WHL
Max Domi, London, OHL
Anthony Duclair, Quebec, QMJHL
Adam Erne, Quebec, QMJHL
Bo Horvat, London, OHL
Curtis Lazar, Edmonton, WHL
Sean Monahan, Ottawa, OHL
Nicolas Petan, Portland, WHL
Kerby Rychel, Windsor, OHL
Laurent Dauphin, Chicoutimi, QMJHL
Nick Sorensen, Quebec, QMJHLX

 

[theIceWookie]

In regards to your last paragraph, I was trumpeting that HARD from the 2010 draft on.

We've drafted plenty of role players, it's time to swing for the fences.

I agree. It's time to swing for the fences. We have a pretty deep prospect pool (relative to past years) so I feel the time is now right to make some more risky picks.

That said, I wouldn't pass on a guy like Lazar at a certain position. Just depends on what position that is

 

[TMLife*]

Bet someone all my vcash that jones doesn't go first overall

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Bet someone all my vcash that jones doesn't go first overall

I'd bet mine on it as well.

MacKinnon goes first, unless Edmonton picks 1st again.

 

[-DeMo-]

I'd bet mine on it as well.

MacKinnon goes first, unless Edmonton picks 1st again.

unless were 2nd overall then I would be wishing for whoever is first to take Jones