Post-Game Talk: #12 - 11/06/21 | RANGERS @ flames | 10:00 - MSG

[RickChartraw]

This squad needs 2 years of Michel Bergeron. Shitty attitudes will get fixed in the lockeroom. I'm a dinosaur. I like the leaders who play and carry themselves like every game is going to battle. Not a brohugs, selfiefest at a night club.


Let's stop blaming the coach. Feels a bit lazy to me.

Bergeron! oh man, now I gotta think about how that 1st rounder we traded turned into Daniel Dore for the Nordiques. would we have been smart enough to take Roenick or Rod the Bod with that pick, who knows.

 

[Doctyl]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Pretty sure Panarin came out or it was reported he didn't want to play with Kakko.

Over the summer I mentioned when I was with someone in the organization (and players) he told me the top 3 most disliked guys on the team.
1. Gauthier
2. Georgiev
3. Kakko

Was very surprised to hear that. But hearing that and seeing how that line plays together on the ice, something is going on.

Are you saying my meme response to your original post over the summer was accurate?

 

[aufheben]

Need to keep a clinical eye on who steps up tonight and who doesn’t. That’s probably more important than the actual outcome of the game.

So much for the clinical eye.

 

[Daves a mess]

Bergeron! oh man, now I gotta think about how that 1st rounder we traded turned into Daniel Dore for the Nordiques. would we have been smart enough to take Roenick or Rod the Bod with that pick, who knows.

Shit. I gotta edit! I meant Patrice lolol!! Thats said, hell Michel was of that ilk too lol!!

 

[The Mouth]

I was opposed to Torts because of his penchant for his way or the highway, esp running Gaborik out town which ended up burning us in the Cup finals.

Buttttttttt he would squash this sense of entitlement our vets are walking around with. Also, im fairly certain Kreider would immediately request a trade. Remember the first time Kreider faced Torts with Vancouvwr and Kreider played like he was possessed as an ultimate middle finger to torts.

Tuff Love Now ? Stop.

 

[egelband]

Isles’ fan here in peace.

Sam and Joe are the biggest homers on the NY broadcasting scene. Say what you want about Butch Goring butchering the pronunciation of players’ names but he also regularly criticizes bad play.

As for the Rangers, everyone needs to take a deep breath. Shesterkin is a great goalie and that alone is the best asset any team can have.

Once one or two of your D prospects hit their stride, your team will be fine. If that doesn’t happen then you can always trade one of your underperforming young forwards (if that’s still happening) for an established Dman.

As for Sam and Joe, I don’t mind a homer. I just can’t stand broadcasters making up stuff to boost the home team or, worse, to denigrate the opposition.
Obviously this goes for local - not National - broadcasts.

 

[jay from jersey]

Are you saying my meme response to your original post over the summer was accurate?

I guarantee guys on the team weren’t happy about Georgi punching ADA and effectively ending his career here.
Ada acted like an A-Hole and had his own self control issues no doubt, but overall he was well liked in the room by most of his team mates.
5 will get you 10, that If you polled the entire team anonymously, a I think 80% or better will say he got a raw deal.
Georgiev strikes me as the type of guy who doesn’t respond to criticism or adversity very well.
We’ve all seen him fall to pieces when he lets in a bad goal. They goal isn’t always his fault, but the way he handles his emotions afterwards is.
Much like strome, this team would be much better off going fwd if these 2 guys weren’t here.
It might be a short term hit, but as a whole, the team would be better off in the long run

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. Pretty sure Panarin came out or it was reported he didn't want to play with Kakko.

Over the summer I mentioned when I was with someone in the organization (and players) he told me the top 3 most disliked guys on the team.
1. Gauthier
2. Georgiev
3. Kakko

Was very surprised to hear that. But hearing that and seeing how that line plays together on the ice, something is going on.

I believe you when you say you heard this, though Kakko's inclusion seems odd to me.

Carp reported that Panarin and Strome preferred Blackwell to Kakko, but that just screams to me that they wanted Fast-lite on the line with them since they had so much success with Fast.

I don't see why anyone would dislike a 20 year old kid who by all appearances seems like a quiet, hard working kid who is still trying to find his way in North America. I can get not thinking he fits on the line, but disliking him doesn't make much sense to me.

I don't know about Gauthier but that wouldn't be as surprising to me. Georgiev makes a ton of sense because whether the fans like it or not, Tony was well liked in the room so whether Tony deserved his fate or not (he did, he had plenty of chances) it couldn't sit well with them to see Georgiev get off with zero repercussions while Tony's time as a Ranger was done.

 

[Rempe73]

I thankfully missed this one. Was Igor as bad as the numbers say or was it just a defensive collapse?

Same haha

 

[tlk]

I thankfully missed this one. Was Igor as bad as the numbers say or was it just a defensive collapse?

a bit of both, but I'd say an offensive collapse more than anything. Also no puck luck whatsoever and a goalie on fire that's not Igor.

 

[Idlerlee]

This team needs some 2015 Derek Stepan

 

[Delawell]

This team needs some 2015 Derek Stepan

We need Tuukka Rask. Do some trade and quick, pls.

 

[leetch99]

I just dont like this offense. There is no flow to their game what so ever. Panarin is looing for a cutter every time he has the puck offensive zone, unlike last year, there isnt anyone smart enough to anticipate that. It could be the way this coach is coaching the team. As much as we harped on Quinn, he allowed for Panarin enough offensive freedom to make those crazy cross ice passes to his defensemen. What I noticed too is that GG wont allow Panarin any time during empty net situations.

You can't have Panarin out there when you are defending a lead in the dying seconds of a game....that would be like playing shorthanded while he waited to cherry pick one from the inside of the other club's redline .

 

[mas0764]

It wouldn't hurt but i think the d and lack of RW depth is more of a pressing issue. We are bleeding scoring chances and playing bottom 6 players in the top six.

The D will fix itself organically, it just needs time. Fox and Lindgren are already pretty great. Trouba is fine on the second line, but overpaid, he will eventually be replaced due to salary, and KAM needs time to develop. The third pairing needs time for the young kids to supplant the ineffective vets.

But yes that's why I said we need TWO more forwards. Especially if Kravtsov isn't here long term. We need a top 6 RW.

But we also need a center. An upgrade over Strome type, and preferably someone who is young and can grow with Laf and Kakko (so someone closer to 20 than 30).

There's not really any getting around either of those issues.

 

[tlk]

You can't have Panarin out there when you are defending a lead in the dying seconds of a game....that would be like playing shorthanded while he waited to cherry pick one from the inside of the other club's redline .

when the team doesn't suck offensively he's anything but a turnover machine (if that's what you're implying). He had like +36 in his first ssn, leading all forwards league-wide AFAIR.
I'm pretty sure some even joked Bread for Selke

IMHO his failed cross-ice passes are somehow reflective of our whole situation in the offense. The search for that synergy continues hopefully...

 

[mas0764]

Why should he? He has probably just caught a rut.

Well, for one thing, he's 30 now.

Slowing down after 2 career years would be expected more than not. The question is how much will he slow down and how quickly?

I always projected him being elite for much longer and even when he falls off probably still being a top line or top 6 quality option.

But at the same time, the fanbase (well, management really) needs to realize that you can't count on a 30 year old to be the centerpiece of multiple Cup runs when your team hasn't even made the playoffs yet because your supporting players are still 20 years old.

Panarin is and always has been (or should have been) acquired as a hold-over while our kids develop, to take the pressure off them, to be their set-up man, and to then be an elite complimentary piece once the kids are ready. But instead the organization made the boneheaded decision that Panarin was going to be the leader of Cup runs and we had some sort of mandate to win right this second with him as our ace.

Except he was the best player in Columbus with a star goalie there and that didn't work out so well for them. Not sure why management thought it was a great idea to try to replicate that. Obviously the idea was to have a better supporting cast than Columbus, except WE DON'T HAVE A BETTER SUPPORTING CAST because it's still too young and hasn't developed yet, and by time it does Panarin won't be all-world Panarin anymore most likely.

It's why they NEVER should have rushed to try to "win while Panarin is elite." That won't work here anymore than it worked with Columbus. Every move should have been about bracing up to win more along the lines of Panarin's 5th-6th-7th years of his contract. It's why they should have traded Kreider for Robertson and a first. It's why they should have CONSIDERED trading Zibanejad. It's why Strome should have been moved for a first already, hopefully he will be at this deadline.

They needed to continue to stockpile and go all-in on Panarin plus an eventual core of Fox, Kakko, Laf, Shesterkin, KAM, Lundkvist, Robertson (from Stars), Schneider, and they should have moved heaven and earth to get some centers from their more recent picks... ie what they would have gotten from trading Kreider, what they should have targeted from a Buch trade (as Edge has suggested there were better value offers for Buch except we preferred the win-now acquisition of Blais), the absolute haul they might have been able to get for Zibanejad etc.

Yeah, there'd be no chance they'd be winning the Cup now, but they'd be absolutely loaded for the next decade.

Instead we are sitting here with no clear window for now OR later.

 

[leetch99]

when the team doesn't suck offensively he's anything but a turnover machine (if that's what you're implying). He had like +36 in his first ssn, leading all forwards league-wide AFAR.
I'm pretty sure some even joked Bread for Selke

IMHO his failed cross-ice passes are somehow reflective of our whole situation in the offense. The search for that synergy continues hopefully...

These days when he finds his way back into our end he usually is GASSED or stick checking as the feet are not moving thus he would be a terrible defender when we are doing so in an EN situation... Sure he was great last season but we are a bit removed from that so far this year . Maybe when he gets in shape or heals from an injury you give him the chance ....but not until then . Plus we have guys like Goodrow and Kreider who excel at those opps .

 

[tlk]

These days when he finds his way back into our end he usually is GASSED or stick checking as the feet are not moving thus he would be a terrible defender when we are doing so in an EN situation... Sure he was great last season but we are a bit removed from that so far this year . Maybe when he gets in shape or heals from an injury you give him the chance ....but not until then . Plus we have guys like Goodrow and Kreider who excel at those opps .

Yeah it's not to argue he's no specialist, but I always admired his rather 'clean' offensive play (it's so smart and precise and predictive while being opportunistic) and it pains to see him obv searching for something and not finding it

 

[Kovalev27]

Remember that preseason game when Strome got hurt and all the big boys were out of the lineup leaving Chytil and Lafreniere as the feature players? And they went off?

that’s what’s holding them and kakko back. They are never the go to guys. They are never out there in big spots. They are never playing 18 mins a night. They are never getting 130 of every pp. they are behind legit nhl stars and on a bad team they’d be forced into those spots

Even when they are put on top lines they defer to those guys. Kakko playing high forward so Strome and Panarin can play roller hockey is a perfect example.

if he’s on Buffalo he’s hanging at the redline most nights waiting to go.

this isn’t an issue easily solvable. Moving buchnevich was a start. They will have to move Strome to and give these guys those spots more often.

 

[tlk]

What worries me is that Kakko *apparently* doesn't click on the same line with Bread. Panarin has showed playing successfully for very different teams he can work with different linemates, and the notion that a player with a high expected upside doesn't fit his game... Maybe something has to do with who the C is?

 

[mas0764]

Remember that preseason game when Strome got hurt and all the big boys were out of the lineup leaving Chytil and Lafreniere as the feature players? And they went off?

that’s what’s holding them and kakko back. They are never the go to guys. They are never out there in big spots. They are never playing 18 mins a night. They are never getting 130 of every pp. they are behind legit nhl stars and on a bad team they’d be forced into those spots

Even when they are put on top lines they defer to those guys. Kakko playing high forward so Strome and Panarin can play roller hockey is a perfect example.

if he’s on Buffalo he’s hanging at the redline most nights waiting to go.

this isn’t an issue easily solvable. Moving buchnevich was a start. They will have to move Strome to and give these guys those spots more often.

So should we have an all-kid line and just say if they get their ass beat some nights it's ok? (I am in favor of this if it gets them going, no matter the W-L consequences).

 

[leetch99]

So should we have an all-kid line and just say if they get their ass beat some nights it's ok? (I am in favor of this if it gets them going, no matter the W-L consequences).

I think win/loss will always be a measuring stick utilized by most pro clubs unless they are dedicated to being a lottery club and not one that has had multiple years out of the playoffs excluding the Covid round. They obviously want to be in it this season.

 

[LOFIN]

What worries me is that Kakko *apparently* doesn't click on the same line with Bread. Panarin has showed playing successfully for very different teams he can work with different linemates, and the notion that a player with a high expected upside doesn't fit his game... Maybe something has to do with who the C is?

Oh absolutely. The issue is not Panarin, it's Panarin + Strome.

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

I guarantee guys on the team weren’t happy about Georgi punching ADA and effectively ending his career here.
Ada acted like an A-Hole and had his own self control issues no doubt, but overall he was well liked in the room by most of his team mates.
5 will get you 10, that If you polled the entire team anonymously, a I think 80% or better will say he got a raw deal.
Georgiev strikes me as the type of guy who doesn’t respond to criticism or adversity very well.
We’ve all seen him fall to pieces when he lets in a bad goal. They goal isn’t always his fault, but the way he handles his emotions afterwards is.
Much like strome, this team would be much better off going fwd if these 2 guys weren’t here.
It might be a short term hit, but as a whole, the team would be better off in the long run

no way to forget how vocal he was. People like that on Twitter or 10 times worse in real life. A lot of players may be more silent about it, but aside from two guys in particular, who probably shared his views (I'm assuming), I don't think for one minute that he was a healthy part of the locker room.

We all think it could have been now differently, but I'm just glad he's off the team he's off the team.

 

[mas0764]

I think win/loss will always be a measuring stick utilized by most pro clubs unless they are dedicated to being a lottery club and not one that has had multiple years out of the playoffs excluding the Covid round. They obviously want to be in it this season.

I'm sure that's how the Rangers see it, everything they've done the past two offseasons points to it.

It's not how they should be doing it though. They are looking at it wrong. It's not about being "dedicated to being a lottery team," - it's about being "dedicated to being the best future team they can be."

Unfortunately GMs live to cash today's paychecks and owners want playoff gate revenue this season. For them it's about dollars in their own bank accounts more than Championship rings and no team has made that more clear the past 6 months than the Rangers.