GDT: #12 ⋅ VAN @ ANA ⋅ 7:00 PM PST

[Hey234]

The milk is spoiling. I do wonder if a roster shakeup is needed or if the coaching really is what is ruining us. It is never just one thing, but I don't know the best way forward.

Something needs to change, so maybe just start pulling levers? Not like things can be much worse.

I think it's most likely a combination of both.

Cronin seems to have a specific style that is not suitable for the players on this team. So far, he has not shown any evidence that he is adapting or able to get his message across clearly. It doesn't mean he can't, but he hasn't shown anything yet. Right now, it seems like a round peg, square hole situation where he just keeps trying/hoping one day it will fit.

On the other hand, I think the team needs a shakeup. The lack of chemistry and confidence is evident. They have so many picks, prospects, and young players. There is a deal to be made somewhere for a high end forward or two. They just have to be willing to part with things that will hurt if they want to take any step forward.

 

[robbieboy3686]

I understand patience, but these are also formative years for a lot of kids on this roster. What will happen to them toiling away in bad conditions of losing and personal failure? The culture being fostered is just as important to development as any physical skill.

I dont disagree with anything you are saying. It’s easy for us to excuse the players and blame Cronin. Maybe it isn’t Cronin, maybe verbeek takes a hard look into the mirror and starts being more aggro about bringing in more suitable players. There have been times where Cronin seems to take shots not about having the right makeup in the bottom 6 and trying to tinker. Maybe Cronin has been told by verbeek “ hey, sorry we couldn’t bring in a stamkos and a top 4 rhd do the best you can keep teaching these kids and I’ll be as active as I can” etc… I don’t think any teams in a rebuild are having much fun on the ice. I don’t think it’s an Anaheim problem per say. Just part of a rebuild. Also, when you bring in the next coach you want to also make damn sure you’re a good enough team to not waste said coaches abilities. Having struck out on stamkos/ rhd, even with a top end coach, how much better would we really be right now? You can tell they are hard nosed with Zegras about learning the defensive side of the puck. It’s Leo’s second season, minty second full season, zellwegger etc. This season is historically a tough one for young 2nd year players around the league.

 

[DavidBL]

Verbeek has been around the league long enough to know weather the coaching is competent or not. He’s in his 3rd season as Gm, he knows he’s mentioned back to back years “ we want to be competing for a playoff spot “ he knows how he’s looking. If it’s the coaching, he will make a move sooner than we think. If it’s player related, trades and core shake ups coming ( think drysdale ) but multiple moves

My biggest concern is that Verbeek is too arrogant to think he's part if the problem. I've made no efforts to hide my feelings about how he has performed and I place our current situation squarely in him.

 

[QuackAttack90]

I understand having 'patience,' but if Verbeek believes that Cronin is harming the development of our players, he needs to fire Cronin immediately.

We can't afford to waste another 8-10 months of development.

 

[robbieboy3686]

My biggest concern is that Verbeek is too arrogant to think he's part if the problem. I've made no efforts to hide my feelings about how he has performed and I place our current situation squarely in him.

He’s been in the league a bunch of years, but it’s his first Gm job. I’m sure he’s critical of himself. He said for instance he would be much more involved and hands on around the team this season. That’s already a sign in the direction of him being critical of himself etc

I understand having 'patience,' but if Verbeek believes that Cronin is harming the development of our players, he needs to fire Cronin immediately.

We can't afford to waste another 8-10 months of development.

I would bet anything he would if that were the case.

 

[Hey234]

I understand patience, but these are also formative years for a lot of kids on this roster. What will happen to them toiling away in bad conditions of losing and personal failure? The culture being fostered is just as important to development as any physical skill.

What makes his situation more frustrating is that they both have publicly identified the issues: culture, development, top 6 forward, etc... multiple times. They know the issues and have been unable so far to improve any of them. That's a big red flag. This is a critical junction for the Ducks on whether they will swing up with this core or be relegated to the bottom like Buffalo. I agree that I'm not sure they can wait another year to make changes

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

He’s been in the league a bunch of years, but it’s his first Gm job. I’m sure he’s critical of himself. He said for instance he would be much more involved and hands on around the team this season. That’s already a sign in the direction of him being critical of himself etc

How so?

 

[robbieboy3686]

How so?

That maybe he needs to keep an extra eye on Cronin and the coaching staff in case they turn out incompetent, or to see if his veteran “leaders “ he’s signed are in fact that and not just sour old vets etc. seems like he doesn’t want to wait around at all, but see exactly what the problem is and who is part of the solution or not etc he was a successful player who was both part of rebuilds early in his career and cup champs later in his career. He surely knows culture or lack there of if he’s around a team enough.

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

That maybe he needs to keep an extra eye on Cronin and the coaching staff in case they turn out incompetent, or to see if his veteran “leaders “ he’s signed are in fact that and not just sour old vets etc. seems like he doesn’t want to wait around at all, but see exactly what the problem is and who is part of the solution or not etc he was a successful player who was both part of rebuilds early in his career and cup champs later in his career. He surely knows culture or lack there of if he’s around a team enough.

How is that him being critical of himself?

 

[Static]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854229654955081893

 

[robbieboy3686]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854229654955081893

Ouch

 

[Static]

I wonder if carlsson will be punished for missing the message.

 

[anezthes]

...the reporter asked kind of an incoherent question...

Classic Stephens.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Not enough is talked about (some here have mentioned it) how much a franchise is really just a chemistry experiment. It is never as easy as [good player] + [smart coach] = success.

I have no doubt we employ talented players and that cronin knows hockey better than I will ever dream, but these ingredients don't work together. We can't keep testing it looking for different results, something has to be changed.


Maybe, but everything falls on verbeek. If he is undoing something, he is undoing something he did, and with that comes implied admission of failure. Hockey GMs are notoriously conservative.


One player isnt going to change anything. There is an infrastructural error somewhere in this franchise that must be rooted out.

Also, San Diego Gulls haven't seen the playoffs since 2021-22 season. Their current trajectory looks to continue that trend of missing the playoffs as they're 3-7-0. They are on their second GM under Verbeek and second head coach (Sommer was in the same boat as Eakins' 2022-23 season as a filler head coach).

Gulls GM
Ferguson: 2019 - 2022
... Stepped down to asst. GM
DiMaio: 2022-23
... left for personal reason after the season
Paterson: 2023-present

The infrastructure problem is across the whole franchise.

 

[Static]

Also, San Diego Gulls haven't seen the playoffs since 2021-22 season. Their current trajectory looks to continue that trend of missing the playoffs as they're 3-7-0. They are on their second GM under Verbeek and second head coach (Sommer was in the same boat as Eakins' 2022-23 season as a filler head coach).

Gulls GM
Ferguson: 2019 - 2022
... Stepped down to asst. GM
DiMaio: 2022-23
... left for personal reason after the season
Paterson: 2023-present

The infrastructure problem is across the whole franchise.

Well an easy through-line is both pro teams lacked veteran talent and depth and relied on young players who weren't ready.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

He’s been in the league a bunch of years, but it’s his first Gm job. I’m sure he’s critical of himself. He said for instance he would be much more involved and hands on around the team this season. That’s already a sign in the direction of him being critical of himself etc

I recall Verbeek was asked a question if he would do a review of himself after the 2022-23 season. He looked stunned to have been asked that question and said if he had time over the summer that he might do that.

A year later, his team finished one point better than 2022-23 season while adding far more talent, physicality, and balance with a new head coach. Verbeek was quite happy with the season b/c of change in culture.

 

[SoCal Dreaming]

The only highlight of that game was the Zegras on Sherwood reverse hit. The rest was ugly. I shouldve just changed channels and watch reporters play blue/red color matching on the US map.

 

[Hey234]

Well an easy through-line is both pro teams lacked veteran talent and depth and relied on young players who weren't ready.

This makes the most sense. If the Ducks had more vets playing, the younger players would be with the Gulls. If more of the high end younger players were with the Gulls, they would in theory be a better team. It would also allow the younger players to develop at a slower pace. The organization still lacks high end vet depth.

 

[Static]

This makes the most sense. If the Ducks had more vets playing, the younger players would be with the Gulls. If more of the high end younger players were with the Gulls, they would in theory be a better team. It would also allow the younger players to develop at a slower pace. The organization still lacks high end vet depth.

This is the case against full teardown rebuilds. Murray was destroyed for not wanting to go this route, and this was always the risk for doing so.

 

[DavidBL]

This makes the most sense. If the Ducks had more vets playing, the younger players would be with the Gulls. If more of the high end younger players were with the Gulls, they would in theory be a better team. It would also allow the younger players to develop at a slower pace. The organization still lacks high end vet depth.

The Ducks have been bleeding vet talent since PV took over. Downgrading every year. Imo.

This is the case against full teardown rebuilds. Murray was destroyed for not wanting to go this route, and this was always the risk for doing so.

I can't like this comment enough.

 

[Static]

The Ducks have been bleeding vet talent since PV took over. Downgrading every year. Imo.


I can't like this comment enough.

Well, everyone here who loves the tank thread and wants it open and yadda yadda yadda, here it is, the sowing to your reaping. We are losing, permanently. Hope you're still enjoying it.

Edit: I guess it's reaping what you are sowing. I don't know.

 

[JAHV]

Well, everyone here who loves the tank thread and wants it open and yadda yadda yadda, here it is, the sowing to your reaping. We are losing, permanently. Hope you're still enjoying it.

It's disingenuous to say those who thought tanking was the best strategy want to lose forever. The point of tanking is to acquire elite talent so that the team can win again. Sometimes it works (Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA, Toronto to a degree), sometimes it doesn't (Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona).

No one loves tanking for its own sake. I hate tanking. But it's a strategy that can work if done properly. And with the players we had, the team wasn't going anywhere but down anyway. Re-signing Lindholm and Manson would just ensure we drafted 7th a couple years in a row instead of 3rd.

 

[Bender66]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1854229654955081893

That carry-in% ... woof

 

[lwvs84]

My friends wanted to go to the game, but my meeting ran long and I had to go vote... glad I didn't go to the game.

 

[Static]

It's disingenuous to say those who thought tanking was the best strategy want to lose forever. The point of tanking is to acquire elite talent so that the team can win again. Sometimes it works (Chicago, Pittsburgh, LA, Toronto to a degree), sometimes it doesn't (Buffalo, Ottawa, Arizona).

No one loves tanking for its own sake. I hate tanking. But it's a strategy that can work if done properly. And with the players we had, the team wasn't going anywhere but down anyway. Re-signing Lindholm and Manson would just ensure we drafted 7th a couple years in a row instead of 3rd.

It isn't disingenuous, it's what people wanted. I don't think they fully appreciated the consequences of doing what they were advocating for. These are the consequences.