GDT: 11/30/24 - 7:00PM EDT - Toronto vs Tampa Bay

[Rschmitz]

If you definition of healthy is "able to play" then ok, but my point is that players play hurt all the time, that is, not fully healthy and that is the case for every team pretty much all the time.

I mean able to play

 

[Bartleby]

Losing in the finals is something we've done twice and nobody counts those as cups. So, yes.... it's a fail. You were not the Stanley Cup winner. The mission isn't to finish runner up, it's to win. That was a huge motivation and learning experience in 2015 for the core and Cooper. It's a deep run, but I don't think our fanbase would be like oh cool we made it to the SCF *again* and lost for the third time in a decade. I think we'd be appreciative of their hard work, but nobody is desperately awaiting the ECF banner ceremony.

It's an inconsistent team because it's an inferior lineup to even last year. If that's the trajectory, how is that Coopers fault? He doesn't sign the players. I want to stay the course with Cooper but somebody that can't even distinguish roles between GM and head coach on HF wants to just push a button by firing John Cooper and replace him with whatever already fired coach is sitting on the couch cause he's a "ball buster," or an unknown from wherever. Got it. Great plan.

I think most people given the perspective of time think that making the finals is also an accomplishment. I'm quite sure the organization views the deep runs and cup finals appearances with pride, as they should, again, particularly as the league continues to grow and the competition for the Cup becomes a more difficult numbers game.

I can distinguish between the roles perfectly fine, and I don't care if it's Coops fault or not, I care that we cannot play consistently and are struggling to maintain a playoff position with a lineup that is better than it's record. Maybe the fault is with the core players who don't feel like listening to Coop anymore because they've been hearing the same voice for 12 plus years. If that is the case that may not be his fault but the recent results are what they are. You apparently are satisfied with them. I am not. The case you make for keeping him is basically just stay the course and hope for better. Got it. Great plan.

 

[JFleegs]

Vasi can't stop a beachball against these guys.

At least we didn't blow a lead this time.

I only got to watch the highlights and holy cow did he let in some gut wrenching shots. That first one from the blue line on the first shot of the game you can’t let in. On the other hand Woll looked like Dominik hasek out there til we pulled the goalie in the third.

 

[Stammertime91]

So realistically Washington and Minnesota are better on paper, and Tampa is a Flyers level team?

Great conclusion with 23 games played and 4 points separating us from #2 in the Atlantic. On paper doesn't mean jack shit. See 2019.

I think on paper and on the ice, which is what matters, our bottom six is deficient. I don't think they gel. I don't think they wear down the opponent and that could be a 1-2 win difference 23 games in. You're in favor of canning Cooper because a team with a dog shit bottom six, inconsistent (team) defense, and shaky goaltending? Hey, go for it. I think it's incredibly full for expectations to be higher than 16-7 with this team, which would put us over Washington. I'd also say where we sit now is appropriate for the makeup of this team. Over the course of 82 games, I think we make the playoffs, likely as a WC, and any higher seeding out of grasp isn't because Cooper's time has expired and other coaches suddenly passed him with ~100-200 games of HC experience.

 

[Stammertime91]

I think most people given the perspective of time think that making the finals is also an accomplishment. I'm quite sure the organization views the deep runs and cup finals appearances with pride, as they should, again, particularly as the league continues to grow and the competition for the Cup becomes a more difficult numbers game.

I can distinguish between the roles perfectly fine, and I don't care if it's Coops fault or not, I care that we cannot play consistently and are struggling to maintain a playoff position with a lineup that is better than it's record. Maybe the fault is with the core players who don't feel like listening to Coop anymore because they've been hearing the same voice for 12 plus years. If that is the case that may not be his fault but the recent results are what they are. You apparently are satisfied with them. I am not. The case you make for keeping him is basically just stay the course and hope for better. Got it. Great plan.

Your final "got it. Great plan." Pretty much confirms how emotionally invested you are when logic is used to expose how foolish your opinion is. I won't devolve into mimicking idiocy for the sake of time.

You say you can distinguish between the two, yet you don't care if it's Coopers fault or not. What the hell are you bitching about then? Just to bitch? Seriously? How ridiculous is that?

You seriously think this lineup is better than what this record shows? We have no RWs after Kucherov. You realize that, no? You also realize we have Girgensons, Atkinson, Glendening and a rotation of other tweeners in 4 out of our bottom 6 right? Top six is money, but you can't roll two lines all game. The defense is inconsistent and the lapses from McD, Cernak, Hedman, and Moser aren't because Cooper is yelling instructions from the bench. You see mediocre results and instead of holding the person accountable for the current situation, you just blanket statement "fire Cooper," as if he's the problem. THEN, you say you don't care if it's his fault or not. So, what in the flying f*** are you even complaining about? Brisebois? This was inevitable at the expense of two cups and 2022. I could understand being upset with Brisebois for whiffing on UFAs to some extent, but the fire Cooper talk is total horseshit and the points you guys are raising just wants immediate satisfaction.

Who do you recommend fills in for him? Let's hear these "ball buster" options. Come on. I want to see who you'd recommend.

 

[Bartleby]

Your final "got it. Great plan." Pretty much confirms how emotionally invested you are when logic is used to expose how foolish your opinion is. I won't devolve into mimicking idiocy for the sake of time.

You say you can distinguish between the two, yet you don't care if it's Coopers fault or not. What the hell are you bitching about then? Just to bitch? Seriously? How ridiculous is that?

You seriously think this lineup is better than what this record shows? We have no RWs after Kucherov. You realize that, no? You also realize we have Girgensons, Atkinson, Glendening and a rotation of other tweeners in 4 out of our bottom 6 right? Top six is money, but you can't roll two lines all game. The defense is inconsistent and the lapses from McD, Cernak, Hedman, and Moser aren't because Cooper is yelling instructions from the bench. You see mediocre results and instead of holding the person accountable for the current situation, you just blanket statement "fire Cooper," as if he's the problem. THEN, you say you don't care if it's his fault or not. So, what in the flying f*** are you even complaining about? Brisebois? This was inevitable at the expense of two cups and 2022. I could understand being upset with Brisebois for whiffing on UFAs to some extent, but the fire Cooper talk is total horseshit and the points you guys are raising just wants immediate satisfaction.

Who do you recommend fills in for him? Let's hear these "ball buster" options. Come on. I want to see who you'd recommend.

"I won't devolve" and yet you just did. About 500 words of nonsense and personal attacks.

Here's the last thing I'll say. If you believe what you wrote, that this lineup is not better than it's record while pointing out in detail just how deficient the Bolts are in key areas than it's time for the rebuild anyway and Coop won't be around for that as it is. So what the f**k are YOU really talking about? (That's a rhetorical question - I don't give a shit about your answer). And, as I say, if it's a rebuild that's coming than why not roll the dice and do the one thing that can be done before it gets here? (Again, rhetorical).

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I literally can’t imagine that I used to argue with people on here. Lmao

 

[Stammertime91]

"I won't devolve" and yet you just did. About 500 words of nonsense and personal attacks.

Here's the last thing I'll say. If you believe what you wrote, that this lineup is not better than it's record while pointing out in detail just how deficient the Bolts are in key areas than it's time for the rebuild anyway and Coop won't be around for that as it is. So what the f**k are YOU really talking about? (That's a rhetorical question - I don't give a shit about your answer). And, as I say, if it's a rebuild that's coming than why not roll the dice and do the one thing that can be done before it gets here? (Again, rhetorical).

Lmao

Youre blaming Cooper and wanting him fired yet can't name one person you'd want to replace him with. As expected. So now you're shifting your point... it was fire Cooper, now it's time for a rebuild? So, who is to blame? Brisebois or Cooper? It's either personnel or the coaching staff. I think it's the personnel, but I also realize Brisebois can't do much. I wish his UFAs weren't such redundant pieces, but that's not on Cooper. You've shifted from:

Fire Cooper --> idc if it's his fault ---> time to rebuild... AND let's just go ahead and fire him anyways

What an astute analysis and plan for action. We got a f***ing VP of Hockey Ops in the house boys!

 

[42]

Any news on Kuch?

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

I literally can’t imagine that I used to argue with people on here. Lmao

Whatever, you’re wrong.

 

[DFC]

I wonder if firing Cooper might actually make the core quit on a new coach. You get the sense they still believe.

 

[Sky04]

I wonder if firing Cooper might actually make the core quit on a new coach. You get the sense they still believe.

I don't think we should fire Cooper but that's just dumb, no athlete let alone a core group of winners would have the mentality to self sabotage their team out of spite. The only merit to the fire Cooper argument is that this team has been stagnant and needs a shake-up, a new coach would provide that, good or bad but it's not going to be because the players just won't accept a new coach.

 

[DFC]

I don't think we should fire Cooper but that's just dumb, no athlete let alone a core group of winners would have the mentality to self sabotage their team out of spite. The only merit to the fire Cooper argument is that this team has been stagnant and needs a shake-up, a new coach would provide that, good or bad but it's not going to be because the players just won't accept a new coach.

"Quit" was the wrong word. But I doubt they would believe in a new guy nearly as much.

 

[CupsOverCash]

"Quit" was the wrong word. But I doubt they would believe in a new guy nearly as much.

Maybe you mean there's no one out there available who's done quite as much as he has and maybe that's why the guys are still playing hard for him. Let's be honest we knew the team would still be a work in progress compared to cup contending years and even compared to some of our years where we weren't quite as strong as the major contending years.

Losing stamkos didn't hurt as much as many thought and we made right move there but we still lack some scoring and vasi isn't as good as he used to be. There's two things that are not working and will need to work with this team going forward if they want to do anything past just making the playoffs. League is definitely younger faster and smarter than those years too, while we are where we are after all that. We will need to adjust something and it may not come this season.

 

[Rschmitz]

I don't think we should fire Cooper but that's just dumb, no athlete let alone a core group of winners would have the mentality to self sabotage their team out of spite. The only merit to the fire Cooper argument is that this team has been stagnant and needs a shake-up, a new coach would provide that, good or bad but it's not going to be because the players just won't accept a new coach.

Barry Melrose??

Just because players aren't picketing the locker room doesn't mean they aren't quitting, we've seen plenty of it over the decades. You can call it not playing hard or being being careless.

 

[Stammertime91]

"Quit" was the wrong word. But I doubt they would believe in a new guy nearly as much.

This. Makes no sense to bring in somebody from the old boys club or an unknown to replace Cooper. It's also always convenient that when people want him fired are asked who his possible replacement would be, suddenly their keys don't work to answer the question.

Realistically, Cooper is probably this season and the next away from (let's say they get bounced in the first round) parting ways. I doubt he'll buy into a rebuild nor do i think JBB will commit fully with the longest tenured coach and a still strong, yet aging, core. The talk about firing him is absolute horseshit.

 

[DFC]

This. Makes no sense to bring in somebody from the old boys club or an unknown to replace Cooper. It's also always convenient that when people want him fired are asked who his possible replacement would be, suddenly their keys don't work to answer the question.

Realistically, Cooper is probably this season and the next away from (let's say they get bounced in the first round) parting ways. I doubt he'll buy into a rebuild nor do i think JBB will commit fully with the longest tenured coach and a still strong, yet aging, core. The talk about firing him is absolute horseshit.

Yeah I think Cooper is here until he steps down. If the players were quitting on him, I could see firing. But we are probably right about where we would have hoped we would be right now.

I think bringing in a new voice might make the core believe their best days are behind them. Which is probably true, but it's still a good core and would be really tough to replace, even with a long term rebuild.

Maybe you mean there's no one out there available who's done quite as much as he has and maybe that's why the guys are still playing hard for him. Let's be honest we knew the team would still be a work in progress compared to cup contending years and even compared to some of our years where we weren't quite as strong as the major contending years.

Losing stamkos didn't hurt as much as many thought and we made right move there but we still lack some scoring and vasi isn't as good as he used to be. There's two things that are not working and will need to work with this team going forward if they want to do anything past just making the playoffs. League is definitely younger faster and smarter than those years too, while we are where we are after all that. We will need to adjust something and it may not come this season.

It's more like I think Cooper is a bigger part of the core than Stamkos was, and I think losing him could shake the players in a bad way. Or at least I think that has to be a consideration if anyone is seriously thinking a new voice is the answer. There are cons to it.

 

[These Are The Days]

My only concern with Coop is I don't imagine working with his besties all day is making him better. Give him people who will challenge and change the tactics. Keep Coop, dump his buddies. And having better talent is a must here. I like the defense. But the bottom 6? Yeeeeessssssshhhh

It will get better soon hopefully. Getting Jake was a huuuugggggeeeee step in the right direction for us

 

[These Are The Days]

Barry Melrose??

*audible gagging intensifies*

The only coach I have ever seen chain a 1st overall to the bench. And someone who became a 1st ballot HHOFer at that

 

[DFC]

My only concern with Coop is I don't imagine working with his besties all day is making him better. Give him people who will challenge and change the tactics. Keep Coop, dump his buddies. And having better talent is a must here. I like the defense. But the bottom 6? Yeeeeessssssshhhh

It will get better soon hopefully. Getting Jake was a huuuugggggeeeee step in the right direction for us

We have no idea what everyone is contributing, positive or negative. I'm guessing it would be a slap in the face of a coach with more than a decade of NHL experience, 2 cups, and 4 finals appearances, to tell him he doesn't get to choose his staff.

 

[These Are The Days]

We have no idea what everyone is contributing, positive or negative. I'm guessing it would be a slap in the face of a coach with more than a decade of NHL experience, 2 cups, and 4 finals appearances, to tell him he doesn't get to choose his staff.

I'm not disagreeing with you. If Zettler, Blashill and Halpern want to figure out how to do something else than don't let me stop you. We fixed 5 on 5 but I can count on 1 hand how many times we've run the defensive clinic that we want to be our identity. Yet you yourself have pointed out numerous times our identity is Kucherov

 

[FinnLightning26]

*audible gagging intensifies*

The only coach I have ever seen chain a 1st overall to the bench. And someone who became a 1st ballot HHOFer at that

I still can't believe I bought into him being a good coach. I was young and stupid then. Now I'm just stupid.

 

[These Are The Days]

I still can't believe I bought into him being a good coach. I was young and stupid then. Now I'm just stupid.

Same here my friend. Same here

 

[Bartleby]

Lmao

Youre blaming Cooper and wanting him fired yet can't name one person you'd want to replace him with. As expected. So now you're shifting your point... it was fire Cooper, now it's time for a rebuild? So, who is to blame? Brisebois or Cooper? It's either personnel or the coaching staff. I think it's the personnel, but I also realize Brisebois can't do much. I wish his UFAs weren't such redundant pieces, but that's not on Cooper. You've shifted from:

Fire Cooper --> idc if it's his fault ---> time to rebuild... AND let's just go ahead and fire him anyways

What an astute analysis and plan for action. We got a f***ing VP of Hockey Ops in the house boys!

It is you is who saying that it is time for rebuild you just don't have the guts to outright say it. You listed all of the reasons that we're not competitive anymore, not me. "Atkinson, Sheary, Chaffee, Eyssimont, Glendening, Goncalves, Girgensons, Paul and Geekie is like putting different types of paper in the fire, it's all gonna burn. These guys aren't compatible. Paul is great and not an issue by any means, but he has no chemistry with these guys. Geekie is a bright spot and gets a pass. As much as we like Ace and hope for Chaffee to take off, these guys are inferior to what we've iced in the past. Not to mention, they aren't as physical. There's no intimidation, no leadership. It's a dead weight conglomerate group of tweeners and redundant, one dimensional pieces." So, again, if that is case, then time blow it up, right? But no, apparently, you think staying the course with a group that you call inferior is the course to stay on. All I am doing is accepting the reality that it's not working and with the understanding that you can't fire the whole team. I'm not blaming Cooper, I never have, just as I don't think Boston blamed Monty. They fired him because they had to do something and so far it's working. Teams know that it's not usually the coach but that isn't always the reason they make changes. They make changes to shake things up when they are stagnant and this team pretty much defines stagnant.

 

[Stammertime91]

It is you is who saying that it is time for rebuild you just don't have the guts to outright say it. You listed all of the reasons that we're not competitive anymore, not me. "Atkinson, Sheary, Chaffee, Eyssimont, Glendening, Goncalves, Girgensons, Paul and Geekie is like putting different types of paper in the fire, it's all gonna burn. These guys aren't compatible. Paul is great and not an issue by any means, but he has no chemistry with these guys. Geekie is a bright spot and gets a pass. As much as we like Ace and hope for Chaffee to take off, these guys are inferior to what we've iced in the past. Not to mention, they aren't as physical. There's no intimidation, no leadership. It's a dead weight conglomerate group of tweeners and redundant, one dimensional pieces." So, again, if that is case, then time blow it up, right? But no, apparently, you think staying the course with a group that you call inferior is the course to stay on. All I am doing is accepting the reality that it's not working and with the understanding that you can't fire the whole team. I'm not blaming Cooper, I never have, just as I don't think Boston blamed Monty. They fired him because they had to do something and so far it's working. Teams know that it's not usually the coach but that isn't always the reason they make changes. They make changes to shake things up when they are stagnant and this team pretty much defines stagnant.

No... recognizing the bottom six is poor and equating that to a rebuild is nonsense. That's not what I'm implying, either. You're really failing to keep up but I'll slow it down for you.

The team is struggling.
Bottom six is bad.
Limited assets.
Cooper not the problem.
JBB more to blame with UFA signings.
JBB got us two cups.
This is the reality of "mortgaging the future."

Is that easier? We can't be at the top every year. Your griping is all centered around us not performing where *you* think we should be. Have you looked at the roster? The top six is one of the best. Defense is inconsistent but good enough. 6 players not moving the needle and any one of the D or Vasy having an off night and you've got over 1/3 of your team doing nothing. It's a team without an identity and lackluster on special teams. You've been saying "why keep going this way," but what is Cooper to blame for? You still never answered who the "ball buster" is you'd replace him with.

The team is middle of the pack, likely squeezes into a WC spot and is a 1st or 2nd round exit. Deal with it. We can't go to the ECF or SCF every year because we *think* we should. This team needs two competent top 9 wingers, primarily RW, if we are going to make noise at all.