Post-Game Talk: 11/14/19 | #17 RANGERS @ lightning

[aufheben]

teams that immediately come to mind for me are last year's Hurricanes, the 2014 Lightning the 2017 and 2018 Blue Jackets. Teams that weren't necessarily great and had serious flaws but you felt that the team was "getting there" and had their ups and downs. This never materialized for some teams until much later due to whatever reasons but I think it's exceptionally hard to find a super young team with a lot of talent that's just, horrible at everything. Probably the 2014 avalanche are the closest example.

I don’t think we have a lot of talent.

 

[Edge]

Yeah, like we said before the season, the big question is not if we can play better hockey than last year, it’s if we can be consistent enough over a full season to stand there with a sufficient number of pts after 82 games to make the POs.

Having that consistency, not throwing pts away, is what you must have to make the POs.

I think we are seeing exactly that. And I also would think twice about the ‘how hard can it be’ or ‘someone must be the worst ever’ reactions. It comes with the territory. Like if Trouba and Panarin and the likes can fail to have a unit take it to the other team — why should Howden/Lias?

And that concept is one of the elements that keeps me in the outside looking in category, maybe picking in the 8-12 range, depending on how things break, when all is said and done.

I see a team that will have surges, and close the gap at times, but probably start to fade a little in that January-February time period. That's the time period where personally I'd like to move Kreider and Strome, and walk away with some additional assets for the long haul.

But that scenario also doesn't preclude the most important aspect --- progress by young players.

If we have a season where Chytil, Kakko, Fox, and ADA take significant steps forward, I think that's incredibly important. If we can get to a point where some of Hajek, Lindgren, Lemieux, etc. also take steps forward, that's an added bonus.

Ultimately, I don't think it has to be all or nothing.

If Chytil, Kakko, Fox, ADA, Lindgren and Hajek do a very good job or progressing, but say Andersson, Howden and Lemieux don't, I still take that as a very strong net positive. I say that because I think there's going to be a portion of this board that would dwell on the latter three in that scenario, rather than embrace the significance of the the progress made by the former 6.

In other words, if we go 6 for 9 this season, that's a damn good outcome.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I don’t think we have a lot of talent.

 

[True Blue]

If Chytil, Kakko, Fox, ADA, Lindgren and Hajek do a very good job or progressing, but say Andersson, Howden and Lemieux don't, I still take that as a very strong net positive. I say that because I think there's going to be a portion of this board that would dwell on the latter three in that scenario, rather than embrace the significance of the the progress made by the former 6.

In other words, if we go 6 for 9 this season, that's a damn good outcome.

Agreed. On Lemieux, and I know you are not saying that he isn't, I actually think that he is coming along just fine. And I also believe that he is being groomed to take over for Kreider as the body in front of the net on the PP. If "all" he is is a third line player who collects goals while screening the goalie on the PP and playing a physical agitating game, I would be just fine with it.

That said, I think that he will be a forward who can slide from the second to the third line with relative ease.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It's easy-- the structure the team is playing under is absolutely garbage and the absurd amount of scoring opportunities the team gives up is ludicrous. Any 21 year old player will improve when they start from a floor so low. How could they not show improvement?? Too many people want to just ignore all the shortcomings of this staff and focus on individual skill growth. Sure that's one part of coaching but why just ignore everything else This team can not defend and are getting worse-- its on the coaches to fix that.

When you have the youngest team in the league you get a lot of missed assignments, it's part of the rebuilding process. I'm ok with ditching Ruff as he wasn't the solution with AV either but Quinn has been good imo.

 

[JHS]

When you have the youngest team in the league you get a lot of missed assignments, it's part of the rebuilding process. I'm ok with ditching Ruff as he wasn't the solution with AV either but Quinn has been good imo.

I get it but some people are way to easy on these guys. It’s not the first time these young guys have played a defensive system. They have played high level hockey their entire lives so they’ve had elite level coaching for years. The problem is, in the NHL mistakes end up in the back of your net way more often than any other league. This is yet another reason why proper coaching is fundamental to these guys development. It’s not just blown coverage that’s the problem is a completely flawed system that they are being asked to play in. Even if they executed the system properly, I can tell you they’d still be giving up high amounts of scoring chances. It’s on the coach to establish the system and make it a system the players can succeed in.

 

[bobbop]

The game is a classic example of why you need veteran leadership. The kids start running around and they try to do too much to get back in the game. With seven 21 and under (not to mention another half dozen 21-25, we are pushing the envelope of being too young. If Staal (almost certainly) and Kreider (likely) are gone next year, the Rangers will need to go out and find a couple of stable veterans to fill out the roster. This is the one reason I am not completely discounting a Kreider extension.

 

[PuckLuck3043]

This does not sound like what you were saying before. No one is saying that they do not have talent. But it looks a bit dubious when you say "they are better than you think, but I think that they will be in the lottery".

Sounds to me that they are no better or worse than I think and are exactly who I believe them to be.

What? The guy was saying they are playing like a bottom 5 team. I disagree with that and feel they are better than that but also not good enough to make the playoffs. There is a big difference from bottom 5 and somewhere between 12 and 15. Thats still on the outside looking in and involved in the lottery. What is so hard to understand?

 

[aufheben]

The game is a classic example of why you need veteran leadership. The kids start running around and they try to do too much to get back in the game. With seven 21 and under (not to mention another half dozen 21-24, we are pushing the envelope of being too young. If Staal (almost certainly) and Kreider (likely) are gone next year, the Rangers will need to go out and find a couple of stable veterans to fill out the roster. This is the one reason I am not completely discounting a Kreider extension.

I do feel like they're right on the edge there. How many teams have iced rosters with seven 21-or-younger players? It's almost insane.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Hopefully the players feel better for tomorrow's game, though I doubt that is the case.

 

[Good Intentions]

Looking for a graph I saw the other day - NHL trams disciplined v ability to draw the penalty...anyone have this?

 

[Unusual Suspect]

Late to the poll. My picks would have been:
1) Zibanejad
2) Staal
3) Everyone on the Wolf Pack who might have been called up but wasn't.

Their non-contribution to the stench should be applauded and appreciated.

 

[aufheben]

Looking for a graph I saw the other day - NHL trams disciplined v ability to draw the penalty...anyone have this?

moneypuck.com > teams

 

[Deleted member 23124]

I get it but some people are way to easy on these guys. It’s not the first time these young guys have played a defensive system. They have played high level hockey their entire lives so they’ve had elite level coaching for years. The problem is, in the NHL mistakes end up in the back of your net way more often than any other league. This is yet another reason why proper coaching is fundamental to these guys development. It’s not just blown coverage that’s the problem is a completely flawed system that they are being asked to play in. Even if they executed the system properly, I can tell you they’d still be giving up high amounts of scoring chances. It’s on the coach to establish the system and make it a system the players can succeed in.

So then you have to ask yourself just WHO is running the system (and better yet WHAT is the system). The defense (as I think I've mentioned before) was a wreck before Ruff got here. And despite evidence to the contrary, it wasn't much better with Torts (his circle the wagons strategy covered a lot of holes and nearly got them killed -- I'm still amazed half that team didn't end up in the ER from all the blocked shots).

 

[Fataldogg]

Did Quinn do a post game presser for this? Does anyone know where I would be able to find it?