GDT: #10 | Flyers at Bruins | Tuesday, October 29, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Gregor Samsa]

Low scoring games can be great if the goalies are playing phenomenally and/or it’s an intense physical affair. This was neither

 

[deadhead]

It def helped in that 5 on 3 the bruins had early, but usually not a recipe for success if the team has to continually be blocking shots

It helped Vegas win a Cup in 2022-23.

Not for every team, but it is a viable strategy to reduce opponent's scoring opportunities, shots that don't make it to the net can't be deflected or screened.

Blocking shots can also lead to odd man rushes the other way.

 

[Embiid]

It def helped in that 5 on 3 the bruins had early, but usually not a recipe for success if the team has to continually be blocking shots

Tortorella got away with this with the Rangers and Lundqvist until he didn't bc of injuries to the D (blocking shots if I recall correctly) and just general burnout. The guy has a one track meathead mind. Hate this org for thinking this dino is the right guy at the right time....clearly not!

 

[ponder719]

Tortorella got away with this with the Rangers and Lundqvist until he didn't bc of injuries to the D (blocking shots if I recall correctly) and just general burnout. The guy has a one track meathead mind. Hate this org for thinking this dino is the right guy at the right time....clearly not!

I keep saying this, and their actions have never disabused me of the notion: The Flyers have spent the better part of the last half-century trying to win the 1976 Stanley Cup, and they will persist in this effort until they succeed.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It helped Vegas win a Cup in 2022-23.

Not for every team, but it is a viable strategy to reduce opponent's scoring opportunities, shots that don't make it to the net can't be deflected or screened.

Blocking shots can also lead to odd man rushes the other way.

Vegas leading the playoffs in goalscoring by an even wider margin than their defensive numbers seems important, yeah? They won with the best offense and a top 5 defense. Not vice versa.

Goals win games and Cups, not hanging on and hoping for the best as the Flyers aim to do.

 

[deadhead]

Vegas leading the playoffs in goalscoring by an even wider margin than their defensive numbers seems important, yeah? They won with the best offense and a top 5 defense. Not vice versa.

Goals win games and Cups, not hanging on and hoping for the best as the Flyers aim to do.

If you play good defense, you don't have to score as many goals.

Defense is an attitude, offense is talent.

 

[Beef Invictus]

If you play good defense, you don't have to score as many goals.

Defense is an attitude, offense is talent.

Scoring goals is a form of defense. Defense is not a form of offense.

Offense is also an attitude. One that Tortorella does not want. Neither does management.

 

[deadhead]

You can teach offense first players defensive fundamentals, you can't teach defense first players to become good on offense if they lack talent.

Scoring is not a form of defense, Devils were 8th goals scored last year, their goalies actually out performed the Flyer goalies in terms of goals above expected allowed, and they still finished behind the Flyers.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You can teach offense first players defensive fundamentals, you can't teach defense first players to become good on offense if they lack talent.

Scoring is not a form of defense, Devils were 8th goals scored last year, their goalies actually out performed the Flyer goalies in terms of goals above expected allowed, and they still finished behind the Flyers.

Scoring is actually a form of defense. When you have the puck, the other team does not. It is very hard to score without the puck. Do you disagree and believe that a team can score much without having the puck?

 

[freakydallas13]

Scoring is not a form of defense

Except it is. There is a 100% chance you aren't getting scored on when you score on the opponent. Not even an exaggeration, literal 100%.

Doesn't mean learning to play defence is a bad thing, but let's not pretend that having the puck in the opponents zone isn't a great way to defend.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Except it is. There is a 100% chance you aren't getting scored on when you score on the opponent. Not even an exaggeration, literal 100%.

Doesn't mean learning to play defence is a bad thing, but let's not pretend that having the puck in the opponents zone isn't a great way to defend.

We have thousands upon thousands of games of data (supported by any honest eye test) showing that dmen who are better at getting the puck up ice experience better defensive outcomes than dmen who just grind away with their "good fundamentals" all the time.

 

[ybnvs]

Old timers enjoy the defense-first game. He's simply from the old era of orange that hasn't caught up with the new era of hockey.

1-0 hockey used to be considered the best!

 

[deadhead]

We have thousands upon thousands of games of data (supported by any honest eye test) showing that dmen who are better at getting the puck up ice experience better defensive outcomes than dmen who just grind away with their "good fundamentals" all the time.

Tell it to Drysdale. Mobile D-men who consistently turn the puck over may have better CF but also worse HDCA.

Even teams that excel at puck possession (as much a product of a good forecheck/cycle as puck moving D-men) only control the puck 55% of the time, if you're leaking goals the other 45% you're in trouble.

I'd much rather have Makar than OEL, even though OEL's scoring stats are similar.
That's bc Makar can play defense as well as drive your offense.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tell it to Drysdale. Mobile D-men who consistently turn the puck over may have better CF but also worse HDCA.

Even teams that excel at puck possession (as much a product of a good forecheck/cycle as puck moving D-men) only control the puck 55% of the time, if you're leaking goals the other 45% you're in trouble.

I'd much rather have Makar than OEL, even though OEL's scoring stats are similar.
That's bc Makar can play defense as well as drive your offense.

Drysdale doesn't disprove the point. He's very shitty at moving the puck up ice.

 

[kudymen]

Nothing says "new era of something" like "ooooh good old-fashioned "

 

[ponder719]

You can teach offense first players defensive fundamentals, you can't teach defense first players to become good on offense if they lack talent.

...and yet, despite this, every time the Flyers pass on a talented player for a defense-first black hole, you defend the decision. We keep saying they need to draft for talent first, and you keep doing everything in your power to talk up their poor process.

It's a good thing your logic has never been introduced to the anti-torture provisions of the Geneva Convention, deady.

 

[Embiid]

Old timers enjoy the defense-first game. He's simply from the old era of orange that hasn't caught up with the new era of hockey.

1-0 hockey used to be considered the best!

Ken Hitchcock and NJD trap hockey....awesome 80's and 90's sauce.

 

[deadhead]

...and yet, despite this, every time the Flyers pass on a talented player for a defense-first black hole, you defend the decision. We keep saying they need to draft for talent first, and you keep doing everything in your power to talk up their poor process.

It's a good thing your logic has never been introduced to the anti-torture provisions of the Geneva Convention, deady.

What defensive black hole?

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I'd much rather have Makar than OEL, even though OEL's scoring stats are similar.

WHAT?! What is happening today?!

 

[Beef Invictus]

WHAT?! What is happening today?!

Are you implying there is some difference between 30 points and 90 points?

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Are you implying there is some difference between 30 points and 90 points?

Question, when something is knowingly being argued in bad faith and poster has a long history of doing so (can't see who is posting so I'm guessing), why do even allow it at all? They might as well be a bot telling you to buy Blue Chew. It's just as inane, pointless and a complete waste of everyone's time.

 

[deadhead]

Some of you may need Blue Chew for all I know.
OEL may have been a bad example, but he was a 40-60 point player in his prime.
Actually, the guy I was thinking about was Erik Karlsson, who has scored 78, 74, 82, 71 and 101.

Point holds, what makes Makar special is he just doesn't score, he also plays defense.
Karlsson can score, but he's always been shaky on defense.

 

[Magua]

I’d rather have Scott Laughton playing defense on the Flyers than prime Erik Karlsson.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Some of you may need Blue Chew for all I know.
OEL may have been a bad example, but he was a 40-60 point player in his prime.
Actually, the guy I was thinking about was Erik Karlsson, who has scored 78, 74, 82, 71 and 101.

Point holds, what makes Makar special is he just doesn't score, he also plays defense.
Karlsson can score, but he's always been shaky on defense.

What on...


Karlsson was not shaky on defense. A huge amount of his positive defensive results were due to his puck-moving ability. Perhaps he was shaky in terms of not lighting guys up grinding on the boards, but come on. His teams did not suffer defensively because of him. His defensive impacts were sometimes comparable to Chara!! At his best there wasn't anyone better at eliminating the need to defend because if he got within reach of the puck, he was springing a transition up ice. The best defense there is, is not having to do defense.

 

[FLYguy3911]

WHAT?! What is happening today?!

I kinda wanna hear the other end of the argument.